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knightime98
15-08-2010, 06:05
Just wondering how many people run across this rather somewhat unpleasant situation.

You show up to play a game with either a friend or some other person. All is fine, terrain is set, sides are chosen. AND THEN !
Your opponent rolls and you see a Skull or a lightning bolt or some other Insert the image here result.

Seriously! - This is just not cool in my book. What is that supposed to be and obviously they answer with the reply - "oh, just the result I needed!"

Just exactly what does that mean? Oh, well that means a 6 or a 1 (or both if they want to cheat and not tell you)...

I'm just tired of this situation. So, from now on ANY time they roll whatever and it shows some stupid symbol, I say show me the 6 or 1 on the other side that shows ACTUAL PIPS on the die (dice)!

I do it EVERY ROLL PERIOD! If the die or dice are NOT easy to read or understand then I'll make it very apparent to my opponent that this is not satisfactory!

Irritating is an understatement!

Any one else have this issue or are you one of those players causing this issue! Your input is welcomed!

Duke Georgal
15-08-2010, 06:11
I have an issue with all symbol dice like you described. I hate them.

Also, I hate dice with pips that do not contrast the other color.

The Flames of War DAK dice are the worst. They have a symbol for the 6 (or maybe 1), and the dice are light tan with white pips. You can't see any result from more than 24 inches away.

Dice are so important. All results need to be as clear as crystal.

Dice should be 12mm or larger, but not more than 16mm. Preferably either light with dark pips or darn with light pips. No symbols. Pips should be in standard layout. Solid colors only. No swirls or tie-dyed dice. I hope everyone can agree on this.

shakedown47
15-08-2010, 06:15
I regularly, and by regularly I mean four to five times a month, play against a guy who used black dice. Believe it or not, both the sixes and ones have symbols! After more than a year, I still get confused by his dice. Thankfully, he's an honest player, but you know how it goes when your chips are down and you start to get salty about the little stuff...

I also don't understand why people just can't use normally pipped dice. You like your special dice, fine whatever. It's not like they roll any better (and if they do then you're cheating.)

eyescrossed
15-08-2010, 06:21
I now prefer in battles if all the players use the same dice. It nips the possibility of cheating/unfair dice in the bud.

My blue GW dice, for example. A less sporting player would use them for Leadership tests because, no joke, you roll 20 of them and half will come up with 1s. That's not hyperbole.

phoenixguard09
15-08-2010, 08:58
My blue GW dice, for example. A less sporting player would use them for Leadership tests because, no joke, you roll 20 of them and half will come up with 1s. That's not hyperbole.

A random at my old LGS gave me 36 pink dice that he said were cursed. I didn't belive him until I found that I was physically unable to roll anything higher than a 4.

I don't mind about colours and such but symbols do ocassionally annoy me.

shelfunit.
15-08-2010, 09:20
A random at my old LGS gave me 36 pink dice that he said were cursed. I didn't belive him until I found that I was physically unable to roll anything higher than a 4.

I don't mind about colours and such but symbols do ocassionally annoy me.

Ha! That reminds me of the time I spent half an hour (In defence of my soon to be revealed idiocy I was a little drunk) rolling some dice in a game with the wife. We had to roll a 6 to start, and it was only after cursing both the dice and my (apparently) attrocious luck that we got round to looking at the dice, only to find that they were properly made D3's :shifty: .

Gen.Steiner
15-08-2010, 09:23
I couldn't give a monkeys'. If someone is using custom dice, I'll just ask them to confirm what symbol is what beforehand, and then remember it.

It's a game. It's played for fun. Getting stressed about something like that is just silly.

xxRavenxx
15-08-2010, 09:48
I agree with the irritation of unreadable dice. Gold pips on a white and green swirled background are the highpoint of irritation (A local player used to use them).

That said, I have nothing against pretty dice.

I use orange and white swirled dice with black pips. Entirely readable, very nice looking.

One of the local players uses beastmen dice. Sixes are some sort of herd symbol. They look nice, and its not remotely hard to work out what he's rolled. Big goat head = victory!


If you're going to get bent out of shape on dice accuracy, consider the following gem:

Gaming dice are not made to a suitable standard of accuracy for ballanced results when rolling. Casinos spend a lot of money getting correctly weighted and shaped dice made. They hold accurate for about 100-200 games before needing replacement. To buy them as a member of the public, they cost about 1 each. Do you fancy buying a 36 dice set every 100 rolls to ensure total accuracy? Its the next step of progression from claiming both players need to roll the same dice, or that different symbols on the 6s are unfair.

Gorak
15-08-2010, 09:57
I use the 25th red dice, love em! the skull+gammer is a 1 not hard. My buddy at LGC bought some casino dice from the interent, too big! I give him the evil eye every time he tryies to roll more than six of them near my percious pwerter minis.....

Spiney Norman
15-08-2010, 10:03
I use the 25th red dice, love em! the skull+gammer is a 1 not hard. My buddy at LGC bought some casino dice from the interent, too big! I give him the evil eye every time he tryies to roll more than six of them near my percious pwerter minis.....

I remember my set of red warhammer dice, one of them (nick-named the "power-armour dice" ) had an aberation exactly half way between the pips on the 2 side that looked exactly like a 3rd pip.

The chrome 25th dice are cool, they get used as turn counters

Does anyone remember the special Ed LotR dice they brought out? I think there was a set for each army, different colours with different army symbols replacing the 1 pip.

Or how about the crazy annoying 4th Ed 40k vehicle damage dice with unreadable symbols on all 6 sides...

I'll stick with my green dice cube thanks very much.

Lorcryst
15-08-2010, 10:27
Symbols on dice don't really phase me, as long as I know what they stand for.

But dice readability is an important point, I've seen some horrors that cannot be easily read even with your nose right on them (marbled green and blue dice with dark green pips is the worst I have seen, those were green blobs that even their owner had trouble reading).

Chaos Undecided
15-08-2010, 10:57
I tend to use standard GW dice when at the store as that way if any go missing its no big issue unless its a scatter or artillery die which I've only a couple of.

Never come across symbol die whilst playing as yet but some of the color variations can be quite hard to easily read especially if someone is speed rolling, I have a set which is grey/black marbled with silver pips myself but those are extremely easy to read.

shabbadoo
15-08-2010, 11:27
All faces of my dice has symbols. Suck it! :p
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=67735&d=1250947356

At least I make a point of telling people what they are, if they are not obvious enough to figure out already.

The worst dice somebody has used in a game with me were 10mm clear dice with white pips. The white just looks like the glare of the lights above, and can't be read very easily at 3 feet or father away. Black pips on 10mm clear dice are almost as bad.

Idle Scholar
15-08-2010, 11:41
Unclear dice can be annoying, as can collections where some have (different) symbols . But it's hardly something to get too worked up over. I always find it slightly amusing when people have little superstitions like blowing on dice before rolling them or always picking a new set of dice to roll the next thing or being fastidious about players only using their own dice.

What does annoy me are dice that don't roll very easily as there often isn't space to give them a good throw.

Gatsby
15-08-2010, 11:43
i use flames of war 101st airborne dice with the 6 replaced by the Eagle patch.

theunwantedbeing
15-08-2010, 11:45
Your opponent rolls and you see a Skull or a lightning bolt or some other Insert the image here result.

Yes I hate symbols on dice as well.
unless it's numbers, then that's fine
If the symbol is a 1, that's fine though I can live with that so long as the dice aren't any bigger than 12mm (prefferably more like 10 or 11mm) and they haven't been declared to be lucky.

To be honest I take dice off people that roll lots of 6's, this is a game where the dice are supposed to be fair. It's not a game of keep hold of the dice that roll high and only use those......

People get uppity when I try to take their "lucky" massive symbol covered dice that have rolled a suspiciously large amount of 6's.

By take dice off people I mean I put them on my side of the board out of their reach where nobody get's to use them. I do give them back at the end of the game.

Idle Scholar
15-08-2010, 11:51
To be honest I take dice off people that roll lots of 6's, this is a game where the dice are supposed to be fair. It's not a game of keep hold of the dice that roll high and only use those......

People get uppity when I try to take their "lucky" massive symbol covered dice that have rolled a suspiciously large amount of 6's.


I'm not surprised people get uppity, that's really rude!

Sir_Lunchalot
15-08-2010, 11:52
A random at my old LGS gave me 36 pink dice that he said were cursed. I didn't belive him until I found that I was physically unable to roll anything higher than a 4.

I don't mind about colours and such but symbols do ocassionally annoy me.

Did this happen in Calgary about 2 years ago? If so, I told you they were cursed!

As for the symbol thing, it doesn't bother me at all if it's just a "the admech skull is a one" like with my GW Big Gun Dice. It's not that hard to remember. The problem is when you get symbols on opposite sides, which opens up a whole pile of shenanigans.

As for unreadable dice... it's annoying as hell. Perhaps the one thing I've seen that's worse than non-contrasting pips is really shiny dice and a light directly above the table. I've got this setup in my house, and it can get annoying at times.

Haravikk
15-08-2010, 11:52
Symbols have no place on dice other than the scatter dice! I recently got myself a batch of Chessex frosted smoke dice, really nice as they're a sort of slightly see-through black with white dots.

Really what I wanted for my Dwarf army was some bigger stone dice, a nice light granite effect with dark dots for visibility, but it seems nowhere does any to a reasonable standard. I've seen a few, and some made of semi-precious stones but the dots are always so indistinct that they're not really any good for playing with. Is it too much to ask for form and function?

twistinthunder
15-08-2010, 11:59
yes I hate symbols on my dice too! perhaps life would be better if there were no symbols on dice! then we wouldn't have to worry about rolling any number because it would be pointless rolling dice because they wouldn't be labelled! YEAH PEDANTISM RULES! [/sarcasm]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol


A symbol is something such as an object, picture, written word, sound, or particular mark that represents something else by association, resemblance, or convention...


...which means pips on a dice are symbols as they represent numbers which means your moaning is both stupid and pointless because your moaning about something repesenting something instead of something else representing something.


also if it gets to you that much just always count is as a '1' result because that is the norm for things such as this(e.g. the new warhammer skull dice use a skull for '1')

Fredox
15-08-2010, 12:08
Personally I don't mind symbols on a dice as long as they are all the same. I've seen one guy use custom dice that had the 6's replaced and he also had some of the GW dice that had the 1's replaced. It was never an issue as he didn't like the GW ones so they just sat in his dice pot. On the odd occasion I've seen him pick one out by mistake he'll explain it and see what his opponent wants to do.

I've got 2 or 3 sets of dice that I use on a regular basis and normally ask my opponent to pick a colour to decide what one I use for the game. I've ordered some dice from www.bolterandchainsword.com (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=207448) for my Dark Angels. A Deathwing, Ravenwing and Greenwing set that will be army specific. They've got custom faces on all 6 sides but they are clear numbers apart from the 6 so it shouldn't be an issue.

I did have a slight issue with my chessex dice as I bought them for appearance and my opponent occasionally has difficulty telling the result. One bigger issue I had was a die that had been made with 5's on two sides but it went in the bin when I spotted it.

Agnar the Howler
15-08-2010, 12:10
Ignoring the remarks of the pedantic few...

I'm fine if there's a differing symbol on just the 1 or the 6 so that it's easily discernable, but on both it can be annoying if you don't find out till they start rolling. If they show me at the start and declare "This is a 1 and this is a 6" then i'm fine, it's those who lack the courtesy to even do that that annoy me.

Fredox
15-08-2010, 12:14
To be honest I take dice off people that roll lots of 6's, this is a game where the dice are supposed to be fair. It's not a game of keep hold of the dice that roll high and only use those.......

This shouldn't due to the symbol but the design and construction of the dice. Rounded corners and hollowed out pips have more of an affect than people think. got sent some info a few years ago explaining it.

Gatsby
15-08-2010, 12:15
To be honest I take dice off people

yea... wouldn't try that with some people, as rude acts have a tendency to be returned.

theunwantedbeing
15-08-2010, 12:34
yea... wouldn't try that with some people, as rude acts have a tendency to be returned.

Yeah like continually using dice which are clearly rolling far too many 6's taken off you for the game :angel:

Gatsby
15-08-2010, 12:48
more like "dont play him he steals your dice calls you a cheater if you roll well" and if in a tournament "hey judge that dude stole my dice and accused me of cheating because my dice rolled to high i want him banned"

just giving my advice that you may want to avoid larceny by not taking dice, just don't play them if you think they're cheating.

CrystalSphere
15-08-2010, 12:49
My favourite dices are the black ones with white dots, i find them to be very easy to see what the result is (more so than the typical white-black dots) and they look pretty cool as well.

Sir_Lunchalot
15-08-2010, 12:49
Yeah, I don't like what you're using, so instead of calling you out on cheating I'm just going to arbitrarily take your stuff. Makes sense to me.

Fredox
15-08-2010, 12:56
Here's the info I was talking about. Basically boils down to if you want dice that roll accurate results use casino dice and if your worried your opponent is getting a unfair advantage provide casino dice for them to.



Could you explain the "20-25% if using GW or Chessex dice with the rounded corners" to me or point me to somewhere that can.

thanks Fredox
Sorry it has taken me so long to respond to your request. I have not been looking for messages.

I am an engineer and I teach at ASU. In the beginning of every semester there is a lot of book work that my students need to do such as circuit board design and circuit mapping. During this time I have 4 students and a giant mechanical engineering lab at my disposal.

IN the Spring semester of last year I decided to discard the dice myth "I always roll more ones". So I took a box of the red and white GW dice, a cube of 36 chessex dice, 36 square corner dice with pips, and 36 Vegas style square dice with no pips.

I then constructed a series of plastic barriers that would be used to keep each dice independent of the others. In the lab we have a table that is 4 inches thick solid slate built on hydraulic legs to keep balance and resist independent movement. On this table we put all of the dice in the rolling container and labelled each case, giving each individual dice its own chamber and number.

My 4 students then shook and rolled the dice 1000 times, recording each individual result. Afterwards we calculated the results and the Chessex and GW dice averaged 29% ones. Mind you that this is an average and our high was 33 and our low was 23. We remove any statistical anomalies and came up with 29%.

Game room logic, poor source of anything, would dictate that the side with the one is heavier and would therefore be on the bottom more. Unfortunatel this is just not true, take popcorn or batholiths as an example. The 6 is too light to stop the momentum of the dice, the rounded corners prevent the dice from turning due to the weight. In the end 1s are by far the most common result.

on a 6 sided dice any given number should appear 16.6% of the time, the Vegas dice were dead on and the square dice with pips were pretty close.

I contacted Caeser's Palace in Los Vegas and accessed their research, after much duress because they wanted to make sure I was not some gambling shark, and they had results that corroborated mine.

I then proceded to buy more GW dice and we filled in the corners of the very same dice that we used, carefully mlting the new plastic on to the old and filing it wodn to the right size and mixing it to .001 for accuracy. The dice then rolled more accurately but there was still a 19% in the ones category. Over a 1000 rolls from 36 dice this 3% variance from the expected norm is just not acceptable and cannot be considered random.

Finally we dissected all of our dice and looked for air pockets or costitutional inconsistencies. We found a few and compared those to the results of the rolls of that indivudual dice and there was no consistent affect generated by the dice with plastic seeds but there was one with dice that had air bubbles.

So I advise all players to use square dice with no pips and pnly buy clear ones, like in Vegas, so you can see if there was a problem with the making of the dice. This is not going to prevent you from having a bad dice day but it will better ensure that you have some level of consistency.

etc... I'll bet you did not expect that spiel, do you think I should post it here on the forums?

Idle Scholar
15-08-2010, 13:36
Science!

Very interesting. So square dice despite the need for a harder throw (and hence more table disruption) are fairer.

AFnord
15-08-2010, 14:10
Gold pips on a white and green swirled background are the highpoint of irritation (A local player used to use them).

Gold pips on black & green swirl is even worse!

And I don't mind those silly symbols, as long as they are consistent. It is annoying if someone has some dice with a special symbol representing the 6 and some representing the 1.

Me, I usually use a set of green dice with white pips, but sometimes I bring out my frankenstein box of dice, which has dice from so many different sources that it looks like a multi-god daemons of chaos army.

Gen.Steiner
15-08-2010, 14:22
To be honest I take dice off people that roll lots of 6's


Yeah like continually using dice which are clearly rolling far too many 6's taken off you for the game :angel:

Are you deliberately rude, or just ignorant?

Statistically speaking, it is quite possible to roll an infinite amount of 6s on any given dice. Indeed, it is possible to roll 100 times and get:

99x 1, 1x 6.

Yes, there is - or should be - a 16.6% chance of getting any given number on a d6. However, it is possible, and, over the course of a wargamer's lifetime, statistically likely, that you will achieve a series of above average or anomalous rolls, e.g a string of 6s or 1s.

TAKING SOMEONE'S DICE BECAUSE THEY ARE ROLLING WELL IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE RESPONSE TO A STATISTICALLY PREDICTABLE DEVIATION, YOU PILLOCK!

Gatsby
15-08-2010, 14:29
Yeah, I don't like what you're using, so instead of calling you out on cheating I'm just going to arbitrarily take your stuff. Makes sense to me.


Are you deliberately rude, or just ignorant?

Statistically speaking, it is quite possible to roll an infinite amount of 6s on any given dice. Indeed, it is possible to roll 100 times and get:

99x 1, 1x 6.

Yes, there is - or should be - a 16.6% chance of getting any given number on a d6. However, it is possible, and, over the course of a wargamer's lifetime, statistically likely, that you will achieve a series of above average or anomalous rolls, e.g a string of 6s or 1s.

TAKING SOMEONE'S DICE BECAUSE THEY ARE ROLLING WELL IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE RESPONSE TO A STATISTICALLY PREDICTABLE DEVIATION, YOU PILLOCK!

and my prediction of karma is at hand...

Finarflin
15-08-2010, 14:51
It would be interesting* to know if rolling on an uneven surface changes the numbers produced by Yade. This ofc. will depend on the surface, but many people roll on their gaming tables which could be littered with rocks, skulls, flailing tentacles etc. Would this increase this unfairness, or help make the dice rolls more even.

More on topic, I would not have any problem what so ever if the dice have 1 symbol, or even 3. The only problem is if there is a symbol on both sides, but as long as the player tells you beforehand I don't see why I should complain.

*Perhaps I use the word interesting too loosely in this context.

Urgat
15-08-2010, 15:03
Mmh. I got one dice like that, it came from either Mark of Chaos or Warhammer Online. ANyway, it's a black one with a Khorne symbol for the 1. It's a small symbol, it clearly represents the 1. I use it as the attack allocated to the champion. Well I used it. Last battle, I've finally decided to never use that thing again, I swear, I'm sick of Khorne marks, I've never killed a champion since I've started using that dice.

Also I may invest in some clear vegas dice, if I ever find out where to get those w/o paying a silly price :p
...
Or not. My goblins, while being abysmal in combat, do tend to stick around even in the direst situations :p

Bloodknight
15-08-2010, 15:08
I like it when people use custom dice, they're what really rounds an army off. What I don't like is the way GW handles their black Imperial dice, with the Imperial Eagle on the 1. It should be on the 6.

My Chaos dice all have the symbol on the 6.

Todosi
15-08-2010, 17:05
I have a set of Bolter and Chainsword dice I use for 40k. The B&C symbol is on the 6 side. Before EVERY game I show my opponent the 6 side and the 1 side of one of the dice so there is no confusion. I have never had a problem yet. All the rest of my dice are standard 6 siders.

orkz222
15-08-2010, 17:37
I don't mind symbol dice. If my opponent is using a set of symbol dice on the 6 or 1. I will ask before the game and also pick 1 up to inspect it. Not that hard to recognize 1-2 symbol...

unless your opponent is using 100+ different symbols dice for all his rolls...

BorderKing
15-08-2010, 17:40
Now this is just being pedantic.......

theunwantedbeing
15-08-2010, 17:43
Statistically speaking, it is quite possible to roll an infinite amount of 6s on any given dice.

Possibly, but unlikely.
Given the adverse effect it has on the game to have dice that seem to roll certain numbers that you use for certain things.

It's not entirely fair to have dice that roll lots of 6's or 1's when you never use the 1 dice for saves or the 6 dice for tests.

Regardless of whether the dice are fair or not that are being used to do this.

King_Pash
15-08-2010, 18:10
I must admit, I consistently use my Bolter & Chainsword custom dice with a symbol on the 6. They have a reputation for rolling very impressively (whether its lots of 6's or lots of 1's) and since they're square-cut full dice I feel they give me a fair spread of results. I welcome others to use my dice during our game (although I still think my dice roll better for me :P ) but removing them from a game would be unsporting and pedantic. Really, you're just being a tool because you want to.

Bassik
15-08-2010, 18:20
Ha! That reminds me of the time I spent half an hour (In defence of my soon to be revealed idiocy I was a little drunk) rolling some dice in a game with the wife. We had to roll a 6 to start, and it was only after cursing both the dice and my (apparently) attrocious luck that we got round to looking at the dice, only to find that they were properly made D3's :shifty: .

Hahahaha! Oh awesome, the exact same thing happened with my friend and me once! We never recovered...

AFnord
15-08-2010, 19:21
When playing certain games, I sometimes sneak my own D3 into my opponents die pile. Never in warhammer though, only in games where you are supposed to mess with your opponent (like Munchkin). People are always so slow to catch on ;)

SamVimes
15-08-2010, 20:03
Possibly, but unlikely.
Given the adverse effect it has on the game to have dice that seem to roll certain numbers that you use for certain things.

It's not entirely fair to have dice that roll lots of 6's or 1's when you never use the 1 dice for saves or the 6 dice for tests.

Regardless of whether the dice are fair or not that are being used to do this.

So...you're apt to ******* with someone else's property because you deem their rolls to be outside of the statistical norm, though I highly doubt you keep track of all their rolls throughout the game (especially all of the non-important ones), and you think your on morally superior ground here? I'm surprised no-one has laid you out for that type of preposterous behavior.

nonrelatedarticle
15-08-2010, 20:04
I personally don't like custom dice but my club , the fanatic nobbs , have their own custom dice with both the one and the six custom . The six says The Fanatic Nobbs and the one says You Nobb ! It also has a single pip on it so you know its the one . It does get annoying some times with both sides having writing on them .

Tae
15-08-2010, 20:19
I must admit I do agree in principal with unwantedbeing in not wanting someone to use certain dice if they continually roll the result required - but only if they are distinct from other dice.

e.g. player uses standard GW dice cube for all rolls apart from leadership rolls when he uses larger 16mm dice which roll disproportionally low, or rolls 16mm 'magic dice' for his spells and gets a disproportionate number of IF's.

However I can't say as though I would take the dice off them, rather I would kindly ask them to just use their standard dice and if they refused I would ask them less kindly.

Dodgy Ed
15-08-2010, 20:23
I'll admit I'm not a fan of custom dice but quite frankly when it comes to a game of toy soliders DILLIGAF; there are more important things in the world than getting bent out of shape over dice.

Having said that, my preferred way of playing is everyone using the same dice. so as any inherent imbalance in the dice affects both players equally. Worked for my gaming group for years. Altough having said that three years or so after we'd been using the dice we did find one that had two fives instead of a two and a five. In all that time no one had looked closely ebough at the dice to pick it up. Doh!

Duke Georgal
15-08-2010, 22:38
i use flames of war 101st airborne dice with the 6 replaced by the Eagle patch.

Flames of war dice are so misleading. I have an older set of german dice. Gray with black pips. The 1 is replaced with the Wehrmach (sp?) cross. They recently released an identical set of dice, only the cross is now the six. This is rediculous.


Are you deliberately rude, or just ignorant?

TAKING SOMEONE'S DICE BECAUSE THEY ARE ROLLING WELL IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE RESPONSE TO A STATISTICALLY PREDICTABLE DEVIATION!

Very true words.

colmarekblack
15-08-2010, 22:55
Guess I can count myself lucky I've only had one opponent with unclear dice. They had white pips set to a see through plastic which was very irritating to see what numbers were which.

I myself used to use Battlefront Fallschirmjager dice for while (about 2 months), but ditched them after I had enough of below average dice rolls. Replaced them with GF9 skull dice which are white and black with a skull for the 6, making them very clear. I tell any new opponents that the skull is a 6 so they don't get confused.

tmarichards
15-08-2010, 23:42
I use the Bad Dice podcast dice, which are the big yellow ones with black pips and the Bad Dice logo instead of the 6. Before every game, when I'm playing a new opponent, I show them a dice so they know beforehand.

The only real issue I've come across with dice is a player at my local GW. While he was playing, I was looking at his dice (as I am apt to do as I like the different colours and patterns different players have) when I noticed that some appeared to be less rounded around the 6 than on other corners of the dice, almost as if they had been worn down. When I pointed this out to him and recommended he use other dice, he got a tad offended and told me he didn't like what I was implying. Boo hoo for him.

Needless to say, if I play him we will both be using my dice.

On another note, a friend once told me that my Bad Dice dice roll too many 6s. He's the only person who has ever pointed this out to me, so I disagree. However, to save arguments I simply just use other dice when I play him. After all, I've got dozens of the blighters...

fluffymcfluff
15-08-2010, 23:51
I have a few dice with dragons as 6's, I always make clear to my opponet that the dragons are 6's. Just to avoid any confusion, no problems so far.

Its also pretty obvious since every other number is represented on the dice but the 6. Just makes it easier to clarify before the game so no one gets butt hurt.

Gatsby
16-08-2010, 00:12
[color="gold"]Flames of war dice are so misleading. I have an older set of german dice. Gray with black pips. The 1 is replaced with the Wehrmach (sp?) cross. They recently released an identical set of dice, only the cross is now the six. This is rediculous.

luckily they only made one set of 101st, with the Eagle on the six. They did make a set of green with the allied star, that was on the one, and later revised it to be on the 6. but i think they did that with all the nations dice at one time

Gen.Steiner
16-08-2010, 02:16
I'll admit I'm not a fan of custom dice but quite frankly when it comes to a game of toy soliders DILLIGAF

DILLIGAF? Y'wot? :wtf::confused:

I want more custom dice personally. My dice collection isn't big enough! :D

freebooter
16-08-2010, 02:33
I've got a few different sets of d6 with symbols. Some of them just have a skull instead of a 1, these generally see use in Warhammer and I'm always clear about what they mean.
I've got my Circle Orboros Dice for Hordes with a design on the 6 and then I've got my FoW Soviet and Australian dice with symbols on the 6.
I make sure I explain at the start of every game which each symbol is and people rarely have a problem with it. If they do, well I've got my bucket of white D6 with black pips on standby.
As long as you're friendly and open about your dice I find there is rarely a problem.

Feefait
16-08-2010, 02:41
Our LGS had a tourney this weekend and this kid wa splaying VC's. he had these cool looking runed dice. problem is they were all symbols - 6 bolts, 3 skulls, etc. and almost impossible to read unless you were right over them. I would definitely have asked to see them up close to verify had I played him.

To be fair, I have these grey marble dice with red numbers. They are extremely hard to read, even for me. problem is they roll like mad. I used to use them all the time because of how they rolled, but eventually grew up and realized that all my opponents hated them to the point of almost hating me. Now I just bust them out for a dramatic or comedic roll. Any dice I use now I make sure everyone can read clearly.

w3rm
16-08-2010, 02:53
Its a game. Chill out.

grg3d
16-08-2010, 03:15
(Forest Gump voice)

Hi I have green dice with white pips.
they have square edges (they roll high when they want to)
the dice come in 2 sizes lg(6) and sm(36)
Large for heros, small for rank & file
I have 4 yellow dice w/black pips
I call them my chicken dice as I use them for LD test
they roll high or low when they want to
they have square edges
I have no controle over my dice, and they
rarely help me win any of my games :eyebrows:

Aluinn
16-08-2010, 03:29
To be honest I take dice off people that roll lots of 6's, this is a game where the dice are supposed to be fair. It's not a game of keep hold of the dice that roll high and only use those......

People get uppity when I try to take their "lucky" massive symbol covered dice that have rolled a suspiciously large amount of 6's.

By take dice off people I mean I put them on my side of the board out of their reach where nobody get's to use them. I do give them back at the end of the game.

First of all, it's beyond rude to forcibly take away someone's property like that. In fact, it is actually theft, even if you intend to give it back later.

Second, anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of statistics should understand that, given the amount of rolls you see in an average Warhammer game, it's unreasonable to conclude that dice are suspicious because they seem to be rolling higher or lower than average over one or even a dozen games. For results to begin to approach the statistical average you need to roll an insanely high number of times, and analyzing the results would require you to keep careful records of each and every roll.

It should be expected, based on statistics, that streaks of good or bad "luck" will happen in a Warhammer game, because your sample of rolls is really rather small.

Now, if you know someone who is rolling consistently high over the course of, let's say 30+ games, then maybe you should comment on that. No, not by stealing their dice, but with words. If they refuse to use different dice you may want to stop playing them. That is how grownups handle these things.

Finally, as others have commented, most gaming dice are significantly biased in some way. I read an MIT study based on a machine rolling dice hundreds of thousands of times which concluded that pips actually bias dice towards lower results, because the sides with more material taken out (the higher numbers) have less momentum to stop the dice from rolling once they get in motion. So yours probably are biase, too. Don't blame this on the player; it's just that really good, casino-standard dice are expensive. (However, pipless dice are in general the least biased, so if you can get this type for a reasonable price, even though they may not be real casino dice, it's advisable.)

Obviously there are exceptions to this argument; if someone rolls boxcars every single time you see them chucking 2D6, then yeah, it is suspicious, and it's acceptable to call them on that. You still don't steal their freaking dice, though.

Sir_Lunchalot
16-08-2010, 03:55
with words. ... That is how grownups handle these things.


This +1.

If someone's playing, grow a spine and call them on it, or in the worst case, just refuse to play them. don't try to one up the childish immaturity. That's not a competition you want to win or lose.

w3rm
16-08-2010, 04:39
I really really really hope theunwantedbeing was being sarcastic because if not I lost all respect for him...

Gatsby
16-08-2010, 06:20
First of all, it's beyond rude to forcibly take away someone's property like that. In fact, it is actually theft, even if you intend to give it back later.

intent to permanently deprive aint there.... its just larceny that's all.

Billy
16-08-2010, 06:28
easy solution... Check the opposite side of the die to see if it is a 1 or 6. And if you can be fooled be your opponent calling the symbol a 1 or 6 throughout the game that is simply your problem. As long as the dice aren't loaded im cool with it.

Tarian
16-08-2010, 06:53
Have to say, I don't mind other people's dice, as long as they let me know what is what, and that they are relatively simple to read.

That being said, I would not like it if people just started putting my dice off to the side just because I've made some good rolls. While I wouldn't do anything drastic, I'd probably keep all my dice on my side of the board, and probably not roll as hard to prevent them from wandering off.

Lord of Divine Slaughter
16-08-2010, 06:57
I think you should relax, you seem a bit too tightly wound and a bit paranoid.

Another approach would be "Wow! Cool dice!" - pick one up and study it :)

eyescrossed
16-08-2010, 07:41
Now I know what I want for my next purchase...

Lots and lots of non-GW dice so all of our GG can use the same dice.

Zark the Damned
16-08-2010, 15:20
I've never had a problem with custom dice, afaik no-one else at my LGC has either. So long as it's explained beforehand what the symbol represents, anyway.

Gen.Steiner
16-08-2010, 15:34
I don't understand why you wouldn't, though? It's like with a conversion or a Counts-As model/army. It's just common courtesy...

High Loremaster
16-08-2010, 15:42
I don't mind dice with abnormal symbols. I do mind dice with non-contrasting colors. Makes it very hard for me to see what the actual rolls are. Now, as far as I know everyone at my new club is very honest, but I've played with less-than-honest people in the past, so it's just experience keeping me wary.

chilledenuff
16-08-2010, 15:43
if you are unsure, just ask to use his dice on turn 1.. you'll soon find out what the symbol means

.. worst dice I've seen, my friend uses black/white marbled dice with white pips, how can a manufacturer make such a travesty?!

Kulgur
16-08-2010, 16:22
Seen yellow/black with gold pips before. Scores were utterly invisible beyond about 1ft

Earthbeard
16-08-2010, 16:30
As long as I can see the result with out trying needing a magnifying glass, i'm fine with anyones dice.

It's the people that snatch up the dice super fast, after rolling that bug me.

Tarian
16-08-2010, 16:30
I have clear dice with white pips, do alright on dark tables, until I used them on a snow table... stopped the game after the first roll, bought some solid blues with gold pips.

EDIT: I snatch my dice decently fast, but I always pick up the Misses/Fail to Wound rolls, so my opponent never minds, heh.

ooglatjama
16-08-2010, 16:32
My friend uses custom dice that are perfect in every way. They contrast super well, they have no funky symbols, and they roll very evenly. We tested sixty rolls, and I kid you not, 10 of each result.

unheilig
16-08-2010, 16:45
I only use precision cut casino dice.

Great visibility. True randomization.

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

Surgency
16-08-2010, 16:52
I have custom dice for my dark angels, a large bag of GW dice, and 3 cubes of chessex dice. I'll admit to being superstitious about my dice. I'm of the firm belief that only 1 players hands should touch a set of dice during the course of a game. If I forget my dice, I'll not borrow, I'll buy a new set (why I have so many). If anyone were to grab my dice, and place them on his side of the table, I'd walk around the table, take my dice, and set them aside to not be used again. Its why I always roll my dice in the middle of the table, right in front of me, where I can clean them up again. Furthermore, I DO use different dice for different things. I've found blue dice to be better for leadership tests. My red/black dice only seem to work on movement and reserves. my chessex cube dice do well for close combat and shooting, but are absolutely miserable for anything else. Sad thing is, its not just my belief, other people have noticed it as well

To take someones dice because you seem to think he's cheating does seem rather childish. Your average gamer isn't going to spend the money to find loaded dice, and to accuse someone of cheating because of a string of lucky rules smacks of poor sportsmanship. I guess you never have lucky streaks either, do you

Gazak Blacktoof
16-08-2010, 16:54
I think that both players should use the same set of dice and that they should be clearly identifiable. Beyond that I don't really care about dice. Most of our warhamer dice are from GW starter sets bought over the years, with a few differently coloured and sized dice from other boxed games.

AlphariusOmegon20
16-08-2010, 16:56
My Chaos dice all have the symbol on the 6.

These are the dice I use too. There's never been an issue with anyone using these dice in our shop because EVERYONE has them and knows how to read them!

I have thought about getting more of them from Chessex and replacing the Chaos star on them with the individual Chaos Gods' symbols, But they'd still be readable by everyone in my shop.

Symbol = 6.

Jetty Smurf
16-08-2010, 16:59
EDIT: I snatch my dice decently fast, but I always pick up the Misses/Fail to Wound rolls, so my opponent never minds, heh.

My girlfriend did this in our most recent game (her first in 8th, and her 2nd/3rd ever) and it completely confused me. I had no idea what she was doing until she explained that she was moving the misses so she had ample room to roll the hits.

This is a foreign concept for me, as I, and the group I play with all just point out the hits to each other, and gather those up and roll on another part of the table. It seemed logical to her to remove the misses from the table so nothing gets confused, but it sure confused me.

I like dice with symbols on them, they add something to the dice/game, especially if themed well with the army. I do have a friend who plays a WW2 game, and has some dice with an aeroplane on the 1. It took me a couple games to recognise it as such, since he forgot to explain it to me in the first game we played. He's an honest person though, so I was never too concerned.


Most of our warhamer dice are from GW starter sets bought over the years, with a few differently coloured and sized dice from other boxed games.

My gf uses the dice from the BFSP set, those big white ones. They are really nice dice. I would love to have a big set of those, but there's only 10, and I need a lot more than that, especially now in 8th.

@theunwantedbeing - Your name is certainly apt. If you did that to me during a game we were playing, you would certainly be an unwanted being. In fact, if you did that to ANYONE I know, or have ever known, including those who don't even play warhammer, you would be living up to your name. What the hell gives you the right to mess with someone else's property just because they are having a streak of luck. I know that sometimes I change what dice I grab based off what they have been rolling that day, and sometimes those games end with some lucky rolls. Other days I do the same thing and I get screwed over. Most days, it doesn't make a lick of difference. I am honestly surprised you ever get to play against real people. I honestly am.

JimG
16-08-2010, 17:01
I want more custom dice personally. My dice collection isn't big enough! :D

I'm right there with you on this! If I'm going to geek out, I want COOL dice to do it with!

chilledenuff
16-08-2010, 17:03
if it comes down to dice superstition, one of my friends was playing a game in a GW store, had a paricurlarly badd phase whilst I was walking past the shop... apparantly it was my fault as I curse all dice rolls (this may be true on my current run of form!)

I have given dice away because they never rolled well, the person I gave them to, also gave them away. I lost track of them at that point

Surgency
16-08-2010, 17:06
I have given dice away because they never rolled well, the person I gave them to, also gave them away. I lost track of them at that point

at one of the shops I played at, we had "traveling dice" that passed among 4 players, because each one determined that they couldn't roll well. They were eventually given to the store, for resale, and as far as I know, never got resold

Gen.Steiner
16-08-2010, 17:18
I always pick up the misses and failed to wound rolls too... is this odd? I think not! :p

Lord Dan
16-08-2010, 17:23
I wasn't aware of how many jaded dice experts we had on these forums... I don't care what you're rolling so long as it's not slowing the game down in any significant way.

TheSanityAssassin
16-08-2010, 17:38
I tend to figure out which number the symbol means quickly if playing a common foe, but I know I run into a few where they have multiple symbol covered dice, some of which are 1's and some are 6's, and I hate having to figure out which is is which.

I also sometimes run into the "hard to read" dice, and because my opponent is so much more used to them, he scoops up his misses and rolls to wound before I have time to figure out what happens. I know the guy well, and don't think he's cheating, but I hate not KNOWING exactly what was rolled.

For this reason my dice are gold with dark black pips. Very easy to see. And I always make sure my opponent gets a good look at what's on the table before I pick them up to roll again.

loveless
16-08-2010, 17:40
None shall remove my Legion of Everblight dice. My opponents do grow weary of seeing those dragons, though (dragon mark is the 6).

It seems like they roll 6 pretty often...but it seems to only be when I use them. If someone else throws a couple, they're pretty average. I suppose I'm just dragon-blessed :p

For Warhammer I just use Chessex dice - the ones that come in packs of 36 - color-coded to whatever army I'm playing at the time.

Earthbeard
16-08-2010, 17:43
I always pick up the misses and failed to wound rolls too... is this odd? I think not! :p

Everyone I know including me do it that way, except one guy, who's already a little dubious anyway.....

Tarian
16-08-2010, 17:48
I figure if you pick up misses/fails, if you mess up and pick up an extra dice, it only goes against you anyways, so that's how I learned to do it (and how I teach new players now!) ((You being in a general sense, not directed at anyone.))

Justicar_Freezer
16-08-2010, 18:14
I don't really care what dice someone uses. Though dice that are hard to read due to color can be a bit of a pain. I at one point had bought a cube of rping dice which were green with copper swirling and the pips were gold. I bought them at the time because I'd forgotten mine and they looked cool in the display cabinet. After that night I vowed never to roll them again cause it required alot of leaning down and looking at them from like a foot away.

As to my group when we throw down to play some 40k or fantasy or anything we just put a bunch of D6s down on the table. We have our own dice but we tend to use whatever dice are close at hand. We also tend to pick up all our misses/failed wounds. Just makes things quicker.

enyoss
16-08-2010, 18:30
I find customized dice a bit annoying too, but it's mainly an issue with the colours though. A guy I used to play against had transparent red gem coloured dice with maroon or black pips and it was impossible to see what he had rolled... by the time I had focused the dice had been scooped up and rerolled. He wasn't a cheat but it's still nice to see what the dice have to say. My long standing group just use GW dice, as they roll nicely and you can get hundreds on a table without them knocking stuff over.

Gen.Steiner
16-08-2010, 22:59
I split my dice into three groups:

Warhammer Dice - All my GW dice (white, black, red, Scatter, Jam, Artillery, Epic Order dice and Epic Titan Shield dice)
Wargaming Dice - All my non-GW d6s. Of which there are many, in wood, plastic and metal.
Roleplaying Dice - All my non-d6 dice. From d3 to d30 plus my The GM's Sinister Smily Face Die from GZG and the compass die.

eyescrossed
17-08-2010, 09:33
Speaking of dice, what are the best dice you've found that would be relatively easy to find? I despise GW dice... They're always incredibly biased.

MajorWesJanson
17-08-2010, 09:45
I have some GW dice in a tin, about 10 cubes of Chessex dice for my various armies, and if I want to be annoying, a container with about 70 of the Pirates dice (The tiny ones, like 5-6mm)

I also pick up misses and then roll the hits again, as the dice that roll misses have failed me and cannot be trusted. If something is twin-linked and misses, I usually roll a different dice for the reroll.

It's also handy to have 2-3 colors of dice available, to differentiate characters or different weapons firing, without having to roll separately.

Bloodknight
17-08-2010, 09:46
I always pick up the misses and failed to wound rolls too... is this odd? I think not!

Not odd at all. I don't like it when people pick up hits, it facilitates cheating, intentionally or not.

xxRavenxx
17-08-2010, 09:47
DILLIGAF? Y'wot?

Acronym for "Do I Look Like I Give A ... Flying-monkeys?"



Late reply, but I dont think anyone answered you :)

Duke Georgal
17-08-2010, 11:46
It's the people that snatch up the dice super fast, after rolling that bug me.

Picking up dice prior to the result being verified is cheating.


@theunwantedbeing - Your name is certainly apt. I am honestly surprised you ever get to play against real people.

Me too.


I have given dice away because they never rolled well.

At a tournament once, I witnessed several people in a game club from New York that finished poorly all go outside and "sacrifice" their dice.


Speaking of dice, what are the best dice you've found that would be relatively easy to find?

I am very fond of Chessex dice 16mm size. They are big enough to see. I do not buy speckled or swirled dice. I like solid colored opaque dice with contrasting pips. Two bricks of dice (24 dice) is about $10.00.

Sir_Lunchalot
17-08-2010, 11:50
At a tournament once, I witnessed several people in a game club from New York that finished poorly all go outside and "sacrifice" their dice.

I tried to do this with a set of pink and black dice that just wouldn't roll well. Ever. I tried to microwave them, nothing happened. I tried a hammer, and was too afraid of breaking the counter to try it again. I ended up giving them away.

zeebie
17-08-2010, 11:56
I think the only time I have had an issue with dice, is when I played against my wife, and it took me 4 turns to realise she was using my bia's dice (teaching aid, as I'm a maths teacher) which should have been clear as they didn't use the standard opposite sides =7. IF the person makes it clear before hand what is a 6 and what is a 1, I don't have a problem with custom dice

eyescrossed
17-08-2010, 12:14
Double post.

eyescrossed
17-08-2010, 12:14
I am very fond of Chessex dice 16mm size. They are big enough to see. I do not buy speckled or swirled dice. I like solid colored opaque dice with contrasting pips. Two bricks of dice (24 dice) is about $10.00.
Do you know if you can get them in Australia anywhere or will I have to purchase online?

Vashta
17-08-2010, 12:23
GW dice only for me.

Steam_Giant
17-08-2010, 14:01
I have ten black dice (with Rackham dragons for sixes)
and 16? BfSP white dice (no markings)

I superstitiously roll black dice for high results and white for low. It may be my imagination but the black ones do tend to favour sixes ?!

I think "the unwanted being" may be a victim of forum 'posturing' (since the behaviour he describes is unlikely to be tolerated anywhere outside a small gaming group) and I move to 'let him off' for the rest of the thread :)

theunwantedbeing
17-08-2010, 15:27
What the hell gives you the right to mess with someone else's property just because they are having a streak of luck.

I'm likeable :)

There's a difference between luck, and rolling the same number with the same dice a lot. Most cases it tends to be somebodies "lucky" dice they have that does this.(invariably these have symbols and are much bigger)

By all means have a dice that you think is lucky, but your not allowed "lucky" dice that roll the same number over and over as that's not what the game is about.

Lorcryst
17-08-2010, 15:33
From what theunwantedbeing has said, I suspect that those dice are not "lucky", but "loaded" ... we had a problem at a gaming club I ran several years ago with a player consistently rolling "natural 20s" in a AD&D game, always with the same die, a die that he won't let other people touch ... after a while, I finally managed to get a hold of that die ... no wonder it rolled so well, it had a small lead ball inside just under the 20 side ... that "player" (cheater is a better term) got promptly banned from all the gaming clubs in town.

Sir_Lunchalot
17-08-2010, 19:34
I think the accusation of cheating was apparent, but I still disagree with theunwantedbeing's method.

If I think you're cheating I'm not going to take your dice, I'm going to tell you flat out that I think the dice are loaded, and insist on seeing them to feel if they're weighted weirdly. If player refuses, or if they actually are cheating, I simply pack up my army. If it turns out that they're just lucky... I'm glad I had the sense to solve the problem with words rather than arbitrarily taking stuff.

And yes, it is not that unusual for people to simply have spectacular (or spectacular seeming) rolling for a game. A lot of the time good rolling can be an average distribution of results, but it's when you roll those results that you see the luck.

And do you deal with all suspected cheating with larceny? What do you do if you think I've taken a 2000 point army to an 1800 point game? Are you just going to pick up one of my chimeras and declare I'm not allowed to use it? What If I've converted a vehicle to have a shorter profile? Would you take it away and say modeling for advantage is cheating? What if you suspected that my 6 inch moves were really 7 inch moves? would you just pick up my models and move them all back?

If you answer yes to the above, I believe you suffer from a severe deficiency of tact. Yes, the above are cheating. And yes you should stop your opponent from doing so. But don't one up a suspected cheat with larceny! Let the cheater be the bigger jerk and respond like an adult, not a petulant child. Like lucky rolling, a lot of the above are regularly just suspected. Perhaps your mental math didn't calculate the points correctly, Perhaps the new vehicle is not all that different, Perhaps I really am moving 6 inches, but it just looks weird to you for some reason. At that point if you reacted by taking my stuff, the game would end. I don't care if it's a tournament or a friendly game.

I don't know about you, but I know around here most adults use their words when they have issues with people.

ChrisIronBrow
17-08-2010, 21:25
I don't know about you, but I know around here most adults use their words when they have issues with people.

And those that don't end up in jail.

It's simple. Not yours, don't touch.

Dyrnwyn
17-08-2010, 23:56
Most of my dice are of the standard pipped variety - Black pips on silver dice, standard GW bricks in black and green, and some silver pips on blue dice. I do however, own and use some of Shabbadoo's excellent Ork dice - but they are astoundingly easy to read - anyone who plays me is free to pick up one of them and inspect it. Encouraged even - they're awesome dice, I like folks to get a look and a laugh out of them.


I'm likeable :)

There's a difference between luck, and rolling the same number with the same dice a lot. Most cases it tends to be somebodies "lucky" dice they have that does this.(invariably these have symbols and are much bigger)

By all means have a dice that you think is lucky, but your not allowed "lucky" dice that roll the same number over and over as that's not what the game is about.

What? Do you sit at your games with a tablet PC and a spreadsheet, tabulating the spread of results for each individual die your opponent rolls? Over multiple games? Or are you doing it in your head?

If you're sitting there with a spreadsheet open - well, I think that'd slow down the game enough that I wouldn't enjoy playing you again. If you're doing it in your head, then I find your methodology more suspect than the purported dice.

As has been mentioned multiple times, if you think someone's dice are loaded - then call them on it. If you think someone just owns a pair of imperfect dice with a bias to one result - welcome to the club. Everyone who doesn't game with casino dice has biased dice. That you may know the bias of your dice isn't 100% fair, but as far as I'm concerned, that's part of the hobby. That people have lucky dice is part superstition and part subconscious realization of rolling bias. Bias due to imperfections is not the same as loaded dice however - it does not guarantee or near-guarantee a result, nor is it grounds for confiscating someone else's property.

Phaedrus
18-08-2010, 00:15
we had a problem at a gaming club I ran several years ago with a player consistently rolling "natural 20s" in a AD&D game, always with the same die, a die that he won't let other people touch ... after a while, I finally managed to get a hold of that die ... no wonder it rolled so well, it had a small lead ball inside just under the 20 side ...

Why would someone cheat at a non-competitive game? That just boggles my mind.

eyescrossed
18-08-2010, 10:27
Why would someone cheat at a non-competitive game? That just boggles my mind.

It's the same in online games such as Modern Warfare 2 or the Halo games. People mod and use aimbots/lagswitches to win and get their rank up, yet nobody gives a bloomin' [EXPLICIT] about their rank.

It's all about the e-peen.

Lorcryst
18-08-2010, 11:24
Why would someone cheat at a non-competitive game? That just boggles my mind.

You have to get inside their heads to understand that ... for that cheater in particular, the point of the game was to be the bestest of the best, with little regard for the scenario or the other players ... he only wanted to win fights ... and that's about 5% of what goes on in a typical session of AD&D ... quite sad, really, he couldn't wrap his brain around the "co-operative" part of the game.

Still, I've seen other players like that, that wanted to win at all cost, but they never used loaded dice ...