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Teclics
17-08-2010, 08:46
Is Teclis allowed to chose his lore before every fight in a tournament as it is suggested by his rules of 'high loremaster'?

thx

Loopstah
17-08-2010, 09:01
You pick the Lore your wizards know when you write your army list.

Unless you are allowed to change your army list between battles then no you can't change lores during a tournament.

Teclics
17-08-2010, 09:10
even if his rule states he can pick his lore before the start of the battle?

CaptainFaramir
17-08-2010, 09:16
Before the start of the battle means the point before the first turn when you pick magic. Unfortunately, under the new rules this is when you pick your army list, not when you rock up to the table as before. There was no need for a FAQ, because the wording of the army book just adopts the BRB of the edition's method of picking spells. Which is now at the army list stage.

To be fair, Teclis has enough plus points without the need for additional benefit. Although, I imagine this will be altered in the new High Elf Army Book (and probably the Lizardmen army book) when they roll around.

TheKingInYellow
17-08-2010, 17:51
I think this point is far from settled. Why would you throw out a special rule that over-rides the standard method of picking lores, in his army book which supercedes the BRB?

Teclis can, at the beginning of the battle, before the first turn, select his lore. Each new battle in a tournament provides him the opportunity to select his lore again.

Of course, this will probably be house-ruled one way or another by each tournament organizer, but I think this one is clear both in RAW and RAI.

xv8
17-08-2010, 17:58
u don't have to pick lores when writing your list its recomended

ooglatjama
17-08-2010, 18:01
u don't have to pick lores when writing your list its recomended

"you do need to make note in your army roster of which spell lore each of you Wizards will use" p. 134

But I guess it is only recommended you don't cheat.

Jetty Smurf
17-08-2010, 18:16
u don't have to pick lores when writing your list its recomended


"you do need to make note in your army roster of which spell lore each of you Wizards will use" p. 134

But I guess it is only recommended you don't cheat.

Page 29

"Choosing Your Lore
The choice of which lore each of your Wizard models know for a particular battle MUST be made when choosing your army, as explained on page 134." (emphasis mine)

The idea of writing it down on your army list seems to follow the same ideas behind writing out your list in the first place.

As for teclis' ability, it seems RAI that he follows the rules like other wizards, but as I do not have the HE AB, it just well might be RAW that he gets to choose between games.

I do agree it's likely that TO's will lean towards the RAI than the RAW once it crops up enough. Though most of the tournaments around here exclude SC's anyways (well, they did in 7th).

Loopstah
17-08-2010, 18:20
The exact rule is ...[and may choose any one of the eight Lores of Magic or High Magic before the game starts.]...

So I'm not so certain any more.

Yrrdead
17-08-2010, 21:43
His rules seem pretty clear that he is the only caster currently in 8th edition that may choose a lore prior to battle.

This wasn't addressed in the FAQv1.1.

Other casters were FAQ'd to change special abilities to the Loremaster special rule. Teclis was not.

D'Haran
18-08-2010, 22:14
I asked the local judge for 'ard boyz and he said he'd be running it as you have to choose before hand. So before you try to bust a move at a tourney ask the judge so you don't get accidentally disqualified.

narrativium
18-08-2010, 22:39
His rules seem pretty clear that he is the only caster currently in 8th edition that may choose a lore prior to battle.
Every spellcaster picks a lore prior to battle... that's when army selection happens. How is Teclis's rule contradictory to this?

Foxbat
19-08-2010, 02:52
Every spellcaster picks a lore prior to battle... that's when army selection happens. How is Teclis's rule contradictory to this?His “High Loremaster” special rule specifically notes that the model selects the lore before the game starts (HE Army Book, pg 66).

In addition, in the “Overview of the Game” (BRB, pg 2), section “4. Deploy Armies” is the first time that any reference to a game actually being played when the writers note “..will take the first turn of the game.” Since there is no reference to a game actually being played or starting prior to this step, we can only conclude that the game does not really start until some point during or at the end of the “4. Deploy Armies” step.

To me this combined with Teclis’ High Loremaster special rule makes it fairly clear that Teclis can choose his lore up to the end of step “4. Deploy Armies”.

Thorgrim Grudgebutter
26-08-2010, 17:59
Well according to page 490 Spell Generation, When you choose your army you should of Selected which Lore of Magic each of your wizards is going to use ( if you haven't shame on you, Go back and choose now and remember to to do it properly for your next game.) So I have confirmed this with four GW stores, store managers and my local Ard boyz judge. Lores must be stated on the army list when the list is selected, I'm sure pickup games hard to do little different, but tournaments like stated above if you don't want to get DQ'd I guess you pointy ears follow the rules. Teclis is no exception, it is just stating he can choose spells from any of the lores. :evilgrin:

Foxbat
27-08-2010, 00:13
This is too bad for you if you play HE. But the Army Book is supposed to overrule the BRB.

In my local area the Ard Boyz judges are ruling the other way, "lore picked before deployment of each game". Go figure...

narrativium
27-08-2010, 00:40
Sitting here with the Army Book, I'd agree with the Ard Boys judges. Teclis has one errata note, two amendments and an FAQ question so it doesn't seem like he's been overlooked.

It isn't technically a contradiction to say he picks his lore during army selection, since that occurs before the game ("before the game" being a very broadly interpretable phrase), but it is an odd phrasing if that's the intent. And he is supposed to be one of the most powerful wizards in the game; it seems wrong to limit such a special character to a Lore for a tourney.

So I'd say yes he can pick - but it's a good question.

Killjoy00
27-08-2010, 04:42
Plus, army selection is the one area that the BRB overrules the army book. Even if you thought the army book said Teclis did otherwise, the BRB rules on army selection per pg. 134 both overrule the army book and state that wizards must already have chosen their lore.

Deetwo
27-08-2010, 05:23
This is too bad for you if you play HE. But the Army Book is supposed to overrule the BRB.

Only if there's a contradiction.. Which is not the case here.

Citadel97501
27-08-2010, 05:26
I find it odd that people are trying to claim that Teclis, doesn't get to choose after army list creation, its not a RAI question, its a RAW issue, and frankly army list creation is different than comments of before the game.

Thats like saying I field Slug Tongue during a tournament, and suddenly before any of the games begin, I hit anyone who could possibly play against me, and they take the losses in games were not even playing. . . Ridiculous huh!

Munin
27-08-2010, 06:08
Plus, army selection is the one area that the BRB overrules the army book. Even if you thought the army book said Teclis did otherwise, the BRB rules on army selection per pg. 134 both overrule the army book and state that wizards must already have chosen their lore.

I dont have the BRB right with me (at work) but does it say on that page that those rules overrule that of army books? I was under the belief that the BRB doesn't overrule anything in army book. In your examples its just a case of there are no rules to overrule, they were Amended away in the Erratas/FAQs for each army.

As for Teclis: Before the game can be at army list composition if you would like but it can also be closer to the game start as well. Otherwise they would have Amended him to "Before the game start when composing the army list".

CrownAxe
27-08-2010, 06:39
Picking the lore at list writing is still picking your lore before the game starts

Killjoy00
27-08-2010, 06:51
Munin, that is the one place in the BRB that it specifically states that it overrules the army books. So yes, it does specifically say it overrules it.

Munin
27-08-2010, 15:51
Munin, that is the one place in the BRB that it specifically states that it overrules the army books. So yes, it does specifically say it overrules it.

Now I've had the chance to look in the BRB and you were right about that specific army book overrule. However it says that the system in the BRB overrules the system presented in the army book. Teclis has a special entry that describes his special abilities and not a general system. So I would still say that he would be able to choose lore after army list is written.

Btw, to me personaly this doesn't matter at all since we dont use special characters.

Killjoy00
27-08-2010, 16:31
Shrug. pg. 134 says the BRB takes precedence over the army book (in a "one-off contradiction" of the normal rule that army book trumps BRB). One of those rules is that wizards must choose their lore beforehand. It doesn't matter that it is a special rule or a general principle - if Teclis chose his lore after army list is written, he would be violating the BRB.

a18no
27-08-2010, 20:25
Choosing a lore of magic is a rule of army constitution. In that case, the BRB take precedence over OLD ARMY BOOK (don't forget all the ruling). If Teclis is FAQed, or if a new high elf army book come after the BRB, he will be able to choose after army constitution. But for now on, he must write his lore on the roster cheat by the rules.

Foxbat
28-08-2010, 04:13
Shrug. pg. 134 says the BRB takes precedence over the army book (in a "one-off contradiction" of the normal rule that army book trumps BRB). One of those rules is that wizards must choose their lore beforehand. It doesn't matter that it is a special rule or a general principle - if Teclis chose his lore after army list is written, he would be violating the BRB.


Choosing a lore of magic is a rule of army constitution. In that case, the BRB take precedence over OLD ARMY BOOK (don't forget all the ruling). If Teclis is FAQed, or if a new high elf army book come after the BRB, he will be able to choose after army constitution. But for now on, he must write his lore on the roster cheat by the rules.

The rule that has been referenced pertains to the rules “Choosing Characters” and “Choosing Troops” found on page 89 of the HE Army Book. It has nothing to do with the High Loremaster special rule as this is not an army composition rule.

However, if it makes all you Teclis haters feel better, HE players can simply identify any Lore they wish in their army list and then change it at the deployment step before a game starts, if they want to, as this would be in compliance with the RAW.

Killjoy00
28-08-2010, 04:30
Not true at all. Pg. 134 clearly also says "you do need to make a note . . . which spell lore each of your wizards will use."

Having Teclis change his mind would break the rule because by using a different lore, you are violating this instruction.

eyescrossed
28-08-2010, 05:11
Not true at all. Pg. 134 clearly also says "you do need to make a note . . . which spell lore each of your wizards will use."

Having Teclis change his mind would break the rule because by using a different lore, you are violating this instruction.

Not at all. You write down all the possible Lores you could use and then see what your opponent is using, then decide. It's "Before the game." :shifty:

I'm on the "Teclis gets to choose just before the battle" boat.

Also note that if what I said above doesn't work, you could never, ever change which Lore you're using since it's ALWAYS "Before the game" unless you're playing a game.

Teclics
28-08-2010, 07:30
I have an interesting question. since the seerstaff let's you pick spells. When should these spells be picked? before the start of the game or before the tournament?

Foxbat
28-08-2010, 11:12
Not true at all. Pg. 134 clearly also says "you do need to make a note . . . which spell lore each of your wizards will use."

Having Teclis change his mind would break the rule because by using a different lore, you are violating this instruction. So, where in the army composition rules on page 134 and 135 does it indicate that the Lore chosen can’t be changed if another Special Rule says that you can? Nowhere. At least I couldn't find such a rule.

This makes selecting a lore for Teclis at army composition and then changing it at deployment RAW.


I have an interesting question. since the seerstaff let's you pick spells. When should these spells be picked? before the start of the game or before the tournament? This is noted on page 134 of the BRB as having to be done at army selection.

Killjoy00
28-08-2010, 12:59
The problem is that Teclis doesn't say "may choose a different lore at deployment." It says choose one of the lores before the game starts. The BRB just specifies when this is - at army list construction. If you follow the rules you are trying to say, you are violating the BRB rule. If you follow what I'm trying to say, you satisfy both the BRB and Teclis' rule.

Anyway, the rule is pretty clear and you don't seem to want to change your mind, so I'll stop trying. Feel free to house rule it however you'd like.

Teclics
28-08-2010, 13:14
This is noted on page 134 of the BRB as having to be done at army selection.

So if i take a seerstaff i should pick my spells for the entire tournament as well and not per game? This doesn't make any sense...

Citadel97501
28-08-2010, 14:22
So if i take a seerstaff i should pick my spells for the entire tournament as well and not per game? This doesn't make any sense...

It actually does make sense, its on page 134 in the paragraph on Wizards and spell lores, and this also prevents you from having to be concerned about copying spells, so with 2 wizards one with the Seer Staff of Saphery, and the other with a spell wand, you can end up with the same spells.

Normally this is prevented by the Spell Generation section on page 490. . .

Foxbat
29-08-2010, 11:19
The problem is that Teclis doesn't say "may choose a different lore at deployment." It says choose one of the lores before the game starts. The BRB just specifies when this is - at army list construction. If you follow the rules you are trying to say, you are violating the BRB rule. If you follow what I'm trying to say, you satisfy both the BRB and Teclis' rule. Anyway, the rules are pretty clear and you don't seem to want to accept that your interpretation is not consistent with the rules.

In my local gaming area all the Ard Boyz judges ruled that Teclis can change Lores at the start of each game. They view this ruling as being completely supported by the RAW and guidance as provides by GW thus far.

Clearly, you have no intention of reversing your interpretation either, but I would advise you not to house rule it based on your interpretation.

mishari26
29-08-2010, 12:11
I think as far as RAI is concerned atleast.. when a certain "Archmage" or "Wizard" gets limited to 1 lore for the duration of multiple battles, that makes perfect sense since he/she would have studied and become proficient with this particular lore.

But Teclis as a specific known character can't be that limited. he knows everything ;)

Lazarian
29-08-2010, 21:35
Being able to cherry pick your lore knowing your opponent quite frankly is one advantage too many. Its very clear the game intends for you to field a list without knowing the composition of the enemy. It would be similar to being able to peruse the army list of the opponent, knowing the mission, then making out your army list. The way 8th edition is currently constructed under those circumstances two equal generals taking any combination of opposing armies would find the one with more information going into it would win many, many more games than the one who was forced to step up first.

It really comes down to common sense and decency towards your opponent. Being able to pick your lore on a caster like Teclis means your army has a decided advantage. The way the rule specifically states may seem to allow this type of selection however I cant see it being upheld going forward in many tournaments, its just too good of an ability to give to a character that already doesnt invite his opponent to his magic phases as they watch everything go irresistible.

Bloody Nunchucks
29-08-2010, 22:51
the rule book says that army books override rules in the main book. the High Elf book clearly says that Teclis may choose his lore before the start of a battle. RAW says that in a tourney you may pick a new lore before every battle.

Bloody Nunchucks
29-08-2010, 22:52
people need to get over it, yes wse all know that Teclis is over powered and that this rule is unfair but the rule says that teclis can choose his lore before every battle, even in a tourney

Bereaver
29-08-2010, 22:56
I think it's pretty evident that Teclis chooses his lore before the battle. RAW this is obvious, and RAI this is obvious as evidenced by the fact that the knows all the lores from a fluff perspective.

The fact that he was FAQed and unlike say, the Slann, he didn't have "High Loremaster" FAQed into being the Loremaster special rule shows that the rule isn't even just a relic of 7th.

Now is this balanced?

Hell no. Ogres are getting Purple Sunned into oblivion, all plate WoC armies are going to get melted with Metal and balanced, combined arms armies are going to get outfought with Lore of Life.

But I think it's fairly evident that 8th edition was NOT written with competitive play in mind. 8th ed is not and will not ever be a very balanced game without house rules or gentlemen's agreements involved.

And as someone that has only played at a few tournaments and prefers local playgroups I'm fine with that. But what with 8th ed out I don't think I'll ever enter a tournament until 9th.

Lazarian
30-08-2010, 00:11
I think it's pretty evident that Teclis chooses his lore before the battle. RAW this is obvious, and RAI this is obvious as evidenced by the fact that the knows all the lores from a fluff perspective.

The fact that he was FAQed and unlike say, the Slann, he didn't have "High Loremaster" FAQed into being the Loremaster special rule shows that the rule isn't even just a relic of 7th.

Now is this balanced?

Hell no. Ogres are getting Purple Sunned into oblivion, all plate WoC armies are going to get melted with Metal and balanced, combined arms armies are going to get outfought with Lore of Life.

But I think it's fairly evident that 8th edition was NOT written with competitive play in mind. 8th ed is not and will not ever be a very balanced game without house rules or gentlemen's agreements involved.

And as someone that has only played at a few tournaments and prefers local playgroups I'm fine with that. But what with 8th ed out I don't think I'll ever enter a tournament until 9th.

Well from a RAI perspective id like to state that many wizards according to fluff would know more than one lore. Lords of Change, Slann, any elven archmage would know more than just a few simple battle spells. Also to the point the game isnt a tournament game that can be seconded until the end of time. There is no reason to assume the game in its current form is balanced thought the gap between armies in general are relatively low; its the specific builds that continue to vex us even through the rule change (gunlines, hordestar, Teclis, ect.)

Teongpeng
30-08-2010, 13:40
If the "high loremaster" is an ability which is paid for by Teclis...then yes, he should be allowed to follow the description of that ability to a T.

If the intent is just so that Teclis can pick from any lores, it would have been stated plainly in his description after declaring that he is a lvl4 wizard. Thats normal with any other characters in the game.

crazyjake
31-08-2010, 09:08
Allowing Teclis to choose his lore before every battle doesn't seem to be fair - or intended. If you really think it's ok to do it and people at the tournament say it's ok, then I guess you should go for it. Why not exploit a system for everything you can? Rules are meant to be broken and is fun REALLY the intention of this game (I say sarcastically)? If you're using Teclis as a means to exploit your opponent before a game begins, I think it's obvious what kind of a player and general you are: Incapable :D

TheKingInYellow
31-08-2010, 19:40
Allowing Teclis to choose his lore before every battle doesn't seem to be fair - or intended.

If GW did not intend to let Teclis select his lore before a battle, why did they give him a special rule that lets him *select his lore before a battle*? :wtf:

Seriously this griping has to end. There are lots of rules for lots of characters and lots of units that are very good. Killing blow on rank and file core infantry? Hydras and untargetable beastmasters that can put out 11 attacks plus a breath weapon and thunderstomp in one turn? HPAs that can potentially put out 30 attacks on the charge?

Let's just remove any ability or rule that gives any unit an advantage then. All units are now WS3, S3, T3, I1, 1A, 1W, 5+ AS. Have fun playing checkers.

Tae
31-08-2010, 19:58
If GW did not intend to let Teclis select his lore before a battle, why did they give him a special rule that lets him *select his lore before a battle*? :wtf:

Because that rule was written in 7th Ed, where every* wizard chose their lore before the battle.


*Apart from those with no choice, such as Ogres, Greenskins, etc.

eyescrossed
31-08-2010, 22:16
Because that rule was written in 7th Ed, where every* wizard chose their lore before the battle.


*Apart from those with no choice, such as Ogres, Greenskins, etc.

Which they didn't change in the FAQ even though they addressed Teclis multiple times.

AMWOOD co
01-09-2010, 01:18
The whole issue of Rules as Intended vs Rules as Written is actually not an issue. The Section of High Loremaster that this addresses is from 7th edition where each wizard chose which of their possible lores they used right before the first turn.

The question is, 'How do the rulemakers intend it NOW?' We don't know. Could be either way.

For now I would say if you are running a campaign with fixed lists, discuss it with the other players. If you are going to a tourney, ask the organizer.

That's my opinion 'professionally' and I stand by it. My personal opinion will pop up if you play me in a tournament in Thunder Bay.

PeG
01-09-2010, 06:37
I think that the most convincing argument is that Teclis have not been overlooked in the errata and FAQ, in contrast there are several points specifically related to Teclis. Although HE usually kill me in combat anyway (I play usually play WE) I would agree that with the current rules he is allowed to pick his spells before each combat and after knowing what opponent he is facing. It also fits with the fluff in which he is usually supposed to know all the lores (which thankfully he cant in the game of warhammer).

knightime98
01-09-2010, 07:03
Is this a 5000 point game or something?

Why would Teclis EVER show up to the battle of 2 hills?
Yeah, everyone is saying what is the battle of 2 hills? right..
EXACTLY.. He wouldn't be there!

The War of the Beard! YOU BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR he'd be there for that!

Unless, there was some specific fluff reason for him to be at some small battle, I would simply not play or allow it!

It's like saying General Lee of the Confederate Army is going to be at EVERY BATTLE! Simply impossible. At Gettysburg, why yes - he was there! One of the most infamous battles of the Civil War.

I guess it's just my mind set that sets me apart from such silliness. I have not played with a special character in like 3 years? maybe.. I played Grimgore last in like 2007, I think! in a 5000 point GAME! AND it was agreed upon by my opponents that special characters were encouraged for this particular engagement!

I suppose this is the very reason why I find that Tournaments are distasteful. You get guys like this that think it's fun to bring a Special Character to a regular battle! I simply say, it isn't fit!

So, it seems to me!

Citadel97501
01-09-2010, 08:48
A 2K battle is not some run of the mill fight between pitiful little rookies, this is an important battle defending or attacking a strategic point.

Now if you run into Teclis, Tyrion, and some more characters in the same battle obviously there is some dire emergency and a huge portion of the Elven people are engaged in battle.

As would be expected since that would take at least a 3500 point game.

Now away from thematic reasons to field Teclis, there comes the basic problem as a High Elf player, we need his capability to generate so many extra dice for the dispel phase, and his resistance to Miscasts, these are the powers that actually make him more useful for us than the other lord choices.

To be honest, I would be much happier with the army it if we could just purchase either his ability to ignore a miscast every turn, or his staff for 55 points or so, but as is he is required for a successful magic phase for our army.

knightime98
01-09-2010, 09:29
A 2K battle is not some run of the mill fight between pitiful little rookies, this is an important battle defending or attacking a strategic point.


Let me put it another way. I don't play tournaments because people like you think it is okay to bring the baddest Special Character you have in your book at EVERY GAME!

When was the last time you DID NOT use Teclis?

Once again, the fluff that I adhere to is that Special Characters don't even become a part of the battlefield until a minimum of 3k points.. I really think they should not even be on the field to 4k but that's my opinion.

Teclis is a crutch! period. So are these things,
* Ring of Hotek
* Pendant of Khalef
* Van Horstman Speculum
* Hellpit Abomination
* Steam Tank
* Dragons of any persausion (except in 4k games or higher)
* Black Tongue
* Infernal Puppet
* DoC power/item that limits a magic lore (whatever it's called)
* ALL SPECIAL CHARACTERS!!! (except when predetermined with your opponent before hand)
* Slann Mage has now hit the stage as being neigh unstoppable.. It's a shame, I have to retire my Lizardmen army now because GW can't write good rules. Actually, I think the Slann is better than Teclis... So...
* Numerous other items/abilities ..

In a nutshell anything that circumvents normal play to the point that it is a dreadful game changer.. Some examples are Purple Sun of Xerxus, Pit of Shades both of which kill Dwarves, Lizardmen, and O+G in buckets!

It is my opinion that the field of battle should be won by the troops not some 1,000 point special character! Just because you can! Whatever he cost is really not relevant but the idea that he is fielded every game is..

So, it seems to me..

-- Edit --

Anyway, ignoring the rant above me.......... (Perhaps your in the wrong hobby if that much annoys ya)


Nah, it does annoy me how people think they can play with 10 models, call it an army, and play every broken rule that GW comes up with... I remember playing against a chap who had 20-30 models in a 2250 army in 6th edition. I got Gork's Warpath off and stomped every one of his units. He had like 5 models left at the end of the first turn. He was crushed! I thought it was profoundly glorious because he had nothing but big nastiness. No troops!

I just like to know why people are playing Teclis every game? They have no better answer to playing a fun game? I don't have a winning record with the High Elves nor do I plan to anytime soon. I guess it's just my play style.

-- End Edit --

Simondo
01-09-2010, 09:39
Anyway, ignoring the rant above me.......... (Perhaps your in the wrong hobby if that much annoys ya)


Our gaming group don't allow special chars in our local tourni's, but you can use whatever you like in friendly get drunk games. And everyone on my local area agrees that because a load of stuff was changed on teclis in the errata, and this part of it was left out.... we're going with RAW, and allowing him to choose upon knowing what opponent your playing.

Citadel97501
01-09-2010, 10:37
Knight, you should know that I routinely out number my opponents who play elite armies, so your rant is kind of ridiculous, and I have played many games not including Teclis, but for tourneys he gets fielded.

Now that I am done defending myself and all those others who routinely field our good options, we can get back to the original issue with this thread, before it gets further derailed.

RAW, he can change lores between games, however I do agree it should be addressed by FAQ soon due to the argument mentioned earlier by someone about the BRB specifically mentioning that the army construction section over ride the individual army books.

Munin
01-09-2010, 10:56
Is it just me or is Knight hanging in the wrong forum?

Teongpeng
01-09-2010, 16:31
Allowing Teclis to choose his lore before every battle doesn't seem to be fair - or intended. special abilities are factored into their point cost when designing the character. What doesnt seem fair is if you dont allow him to use his ability.

TheKingInYellow
01-09-2010, 16:42
Nah, it does annoy me how people think they can play with 10 models, call it an army, and play every broken rule that GW comes up with... I remember playing against a chap who had 20-30 models in a 2250 army in 6th edition. I got Gork's Warpath off and stomped every one of his units. He had like 5 models left at the end of the first turn. He was crushed! I thought it was profoundly glorious because he had nothing but big nastiness. No troops!


Gork's Warpath is a crutch. It shouldn't even be fielded below one million points. Like a god is really going to have time to stomp on a bunch of units in a 2,250 point game.

Of course, that's just my opinion, but you are a bad person for even disagreeing with me. WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU DID NOT USE GORK'S WARPATH?!

Taureus
01-09-2010, 18:04
fluffy rant

You do realize that the way you play is not the way everyone else has to play...I would hope you do.

And how are half the things you listed a crutch?

Going from a Fluff perspective, why wouldn't DE use the RoH? Why wouldn't a Skaven army bring an HPA or 2 to the table?

Your reasoning is clearly misguided by what you (and seemingly your play group) feel is OP...

knightime98
02-09-2010, 05:53
Knight, you should know that I routinely out number my opponents who play elite armies, so your rant is kind of ridiculous, and I have played many games not including Teclis, but for tourneys he gets fielded.


Wow, proves my point!


Gork's Warpath is a crutch. It shouldn't even be fielded below one million points. Like a god is really going to have time to stomp on a bunch of units in a 2,250 point game.

Of course, that's just my opinion, but you are a bad person for even disagreeing with me. WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU DID NOT USE GORK'S WARPATH?!

I like you King in Yellow, :)

Actually, I haven't cast that spell in 7th Edition or in 8th Edition because the Orcs Magic blows. I almost want to say that I never fielded a shaman in 7th Edition.. I think it may be very true. But that's going back 3 years or so. I know for the last 2 1/2 years - I left all the Shamans at home because of how they were nerfed. All you need to do is squabble one turn and they can't cast! So..

Lastly pertaining to this, I play by fluff and take my lumps. To the point that I play armies that are neigh impossible to win with.. So, I have played to no avail the O+G in the 7th edition as my record indicates.



You do realize that the way you play is not the way everyone else has to play...I would hope you do.

And how are half the things you listed a crutch?

Going from a Fluff perspective, why wouldn't DE use the RoH? Why wouldn't a Skaven army bring an HPA or 2 to the table?

Your reasoning is clearly misguided by what you (and seemingly your play group) feel is OP...

More or less the difference in points versus the power and influx of influence the item/banner/spell/monster/buff, etc brings to the table. The more power you give to an item/spell...., the less important it is to have troops that can fight thus derailing the main idea of having the game in the first place.

For instance, I saw a player come to a tournament with,
Lord Kroak, Temple guard, skink priest, 3 units of skink skirmishers, and that was his army for 2k points. Seriously? You're bringing a Special Character over 1k points to a 2k tourney?.. I was so happy to see that one player killed Lord Kroak and by virtue all he could get was a draw... It's written in Lord Kroak rules.. Now mind you this was 6th edition, I believe. Pure and utter cheese, not fluffy, not fun, just an idiot fielding a power list because he really doesn't play lizardmen but wanted to be the newest jerk on the block.

*Moving along, as far as Teclis is concerned, it appears to me that he can choose his lore whenever he wants. Don't see the problem with that. He just is able to know the day before exactly which lore he needs for that battle. It's fluffy and it's in the rules.. So why is this even a debate?