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Lorquas
17-08-2010, 12:14
Hello

The rulebook says you can use power dice (or dispel dice) to dispel a remains in play spell at any point in the magic phase.

The rules also say that once a player has cast his last spell the magic phase is over.

Once a player has finished casting spells (and has thus ended the magic phase) can the opposing player then use any left over dispel dice to attempt to dispell remains in play spells or has he missed his chance as the magic phase is now over?!

Also, if a remains in spell play is dispelled can you then recast it if you still have power dice left!?

Hope that makes sense :)

Thanks

Lorquas

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 12:32
Hello

The rulebook says you can use power dice (or dispel dice) to dispel a remains in play spell at any point in the magic phase.

The rules also say that once a player has cast his last spell the magic phase is over.

Once a player has finished casting spells (and has thus ended the magic phase) can the opposing player then use any left over dispel dice to attempt to dispell remains in play spells or has he missed his chance as the magic phase is now over?!

Also, if a remains in spell play is dispelled can you then recast it if you still have power dice left!?

Hope that makes sense :)

Thanks

Lorquas

If I'm following what I think you've said (I'm tired, so you may have to excuse me):

When the remains in play spell is cast, the opponent has one opportunity at that time to dispel it. If they fail to do so, the spell is cast (assuming it was cast in the first place) and comes into effect. Page 36 tells us that "If they're not dispelled immediately when they're cast, they can be dispelled during a subsequent magic phase with either your dispel or power dice" (paraphrased). So you can't dispel it during that magic phase it was cast, but instead you can keep trying each magic phase after that.

The only thing you have to watch out for is:

"A Wizard who fails to dispel a remains in play spell during his own or the enemy Magic phase, cannot attempt further dispel or casting attemps for the remainder of the phase.".

In other words, make sure its' the last thing you do during the magic phases AFTER it was cast.

To answer your other question, if your opponent is casting a remains in play spell you have to try and attempt to dispel it as soon as it is cast or else you can't try again that magic phase. Additionally, since as soon as all Wizards are no longer able to cast for whatever reason during one magic phase, as soon as they finish casting the magic phase is over. So you either have to slip the dispel attempt in during the time in which he is casting spells or you have to try to dispel it before you finish casting all your spells and have run out of dice.

And finally, no, if it is dispelled the turn you cast it, you can't cast it again that phase - "Remember that, unless specific otherwise, each Wizard can cast each spell only once per turn." (page 37).

Hope that helps :)

Toodles

narrativium
17-08-2010, 12:40
If your opponent is telling you you can't try to dispel something because he's finished making casting attempts, I would say he's being unfair. Granted, the letter of the rule suggests he has the ability to declare the phase over... I think the intent is more to determine where the magic phase stops and the shooting phase begins, and until models are moved or dice rolled I'd say you're well within your rights to declare a dispel attempt.

I don't think the game should ever come to a point where one player can stop the other from doing something just "because I said so".

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 12:44
I'd agree with you narrativium - certainly it would never be the kind of thing I would willingly do to someone during a friendly game as that's hideously unsporting (as I see it, if they're holding back dice for one thing, they're gonna have to let something else go and its' just not worth hassling people too much most times). Admittedly, in a tournament, that would be different, but in most games I wouldn't bother.

Toodles

Ranhothep
17-08-2010, 14:06
Unfortunately, due to Throne of Vines timing issues arise now in the magic phase. What I believe Lorquas initially intended to ask is, if someone dispells your remains in play spell cast previously in another turn, during your magic phase, can you cast it now? I think you can, since you can recast a RIP (remains in play :) ) spell ending the previous "version" targetting something new, just not in the same turn.

Concerning the Throne of Vines it becomes actually important who is allowed to take an action first in a magic phase. I'm only ASSUMING here though, based on the current GW ruling trend, that the active player decides the order of things, thus having the 1st action in the magic phase.

The point about the phase ending after the player cast his last spell is something I didn't see before, which creates a lot of difficult decisions. Simply, as it stands it forces the dispelling player to decide whether he wants to have a shot at dispelling the last spell an opponent might have or dispelling a RIP spell before the opponent attempts his last spell. What I don't like is the fact that thanx to this wording you could be denied a chance to dispell a RIP spell if the opponent gets total power/miscast or if he suddenly decides to not use up all of his power dice and declares his first spell to be the last one as well.

Disclaimer: Since I can't check the rulebook atm, I'm basing my thoughts only on the quote as stated in this thread.

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 14:15
Unfortunately, due to Throne of Vines timing issues arise now in the magic phase. What I believe Lorquas initially intended to ask is, if someone dispells your remains in play spell cast previously in another turn, during your magic phase, can you cast it now? I think you can, since you can recast a RIP (remains in play :) ) spell ending the previous "version" targetting something new, just not in the same turn.

If it was cast in a previous turn and dispelled, then yes, you can cast it again. Though obviously you can't cast it if its' already in effect :)


Concerning the Throne of Vines it becomes actually important who is allowed to take an action first in a magic phase. I'm only ASSUMING here though, based on the current GW ruling trend, that the active player decides the order of things, thus having the 1st action in the magic phase.

I would also assume that whoever's turn it is would "get the first action" (simply because it's up to the guy with the power dice to try and cast the spell before any thoughts about miscasting, IF'ing, dispelling, etc, can even be taken into account).

However, I still heavily dispute the timing of ToV on that one. Different subject, so best not to get too involved, but the problem is the rule on the top of p.34 is called Miscast (which is separated from the rule we call Irresistible Force in the layout of the BRB) and details the order of how we resolve the spell/miscast. The argument put through on p33 is solely based off a sentence and a half from a "fluff paragraph" that tells us that when IF occurs there will be a miscast - it is actually RAP (rule as presumed) to assume they both happen at the same time because no rule tells us they do.

Back on topic.


The point about the phase ending after the player cast his last spell is something I didn't see before, which creates a lot of difficult decisions. Simply, as it stands it forces the dispelling player to decide whether he wants to have a shot at dispelling the last spell an opponent might have or dispelling a RIP spell before the opponent attempts his last spell. What I don't like is the fact that thanx to this wording you could be denied a chance to dispell a RIP spell if the opponent gets total power/miscast or if he suddenly decides to not use up all of his power dice and declares his first spell to be the last one as well.

Disclaimer: Since I can't check the rulebook atm, I'm basing my thoughts only on the quote as stated in this thread.

Very true, though I know a few people who would be rather sarcastic when they turn round and tell you "And what is what most players would call 'Tactical Decisions'". The trigger that ends the phase though only happens if he runs out of casting all his spells or he runs out of Power Dice (after spell resolution of course) and I have to say I have mixed feelings on that one. Definitely one you CAN take advantage on, but it just feels...dirty.

Toodles

Lorquas
17-08-2010, 14:23
Thanks guys.

This is the scenario that brought about this question. It was my magic phase and I'd cast a couple of spells. I had 3 power dice remaining but had nothing to use them on so I said that's the magic phase over. My opponent then picked up his 4 remaining dispel dice and said I'm going to dispel your "remains in play" spell (that I had cast the previous magic phase). He dispelled it.

I then said I'll cast that spell again as I had 3 power dice left (spell was originally cast in my previous magic phase). He then said but you said magic phase was over?! It the magic phase was over then he couldn't have done his dispel - if it wasnt over then I was free to continue casting, wasn't I!?!?

I know it's not a major thing but it could be important as to when you try and dispel a remains in play spell (that is in play).

My reading of the magic phase was that as soon as a player stops casting spells then the magic phase is over (but that was late last night after several large gllases of rum!)

Sorry if my original post wasn't clear

Lorquas

Ranhothep
17-08-2010, 14:28
Though obviously you can't cast it if its' already in effect :)

Well, technically you can't, in reality you can :) U simply declare the RIP spell is finished (u can do this at any time) and cast it anew, since you didn't cast it yet this magic phase.



The trigger that ends the phase though only happens if he runs out of casting all his spells or he runs out of Power Dice (after spell resolution of course) and I have to say I have mixed feelings on that one. Definitely one you CAN take advantage on, but it just feels...dirty.

Toodles

I was able to check the wording of the trigger. The wording is even worse. Paraphrased: if you run out of: power dice or USEFULL spells or spells in generall, the phase is over. Now this is really wrong imo, since you could endlessly argue what is usefull and what isn't in an attempt to end the magic phase while denying an enemey a dispell attempt he was saving his dice for :( I would never do something like this personally, but I can see this happening in a competitive environment...

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 14:29
*snip*


Yeah, in the example you gave, as soon as you ran out of spells and things to cast, the magic phase is over. He would not have been able to toss the dispel dice into stopping the spell because the phase is over as you fulfilled one of the requirements that cause the magic phase to end. So you would have kept your RiP spell.

Similarly though, if he had been able to dispel your spell that you had cast the previous turn, you could have recast it (as then techinically you would have had three dice and a spell you could have cast again). So even if he had wasted his dispel dice getting rid of your RiP spell, you could have just cast it again as it wasn't in the same turn.

Though under the conditions you pointed, the phase would have ended, so he couldn't have dispelled it anyway.

Hope that helps :)

Toodles

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 14:32
Well, technically you can't, in reality you can :) U simply declare the RIP spell is finished (u can do this at any time) and cast it anew, since you didn't cast it yet this magic phase.

*facepalm*

I kinda walked into that one didn't I? Yes, you could have ended it and recast it. :p


I was able to check the wording of the trigger. The wording is even worse. Paraphrased: if you run out of: power dice or USEFULL spells or spells in generall, the phase is over. Now this is really wrong imo, since you could endlessly argue what is usefull and what isn't in an attempt to end the magic phase while denying an enemey a dispell attempt he was saving his dice for :( I would never do something like this personally, but I can see this happening in a competitive environment...

It is absolutely horrendous isn't it? The only thing is, if you have a RiP spell that hasn't ended (cast in previous turns) and you have left over power dice, you could just end the phase because, unless your opponent stops the spell or you end it, the spell is still in effect so you can't cast it again until it ends:cheese:

Yep, it is so going to happen in a tournament. The list of stupid RaW arguments just keeps adding. That's the fourth one within a week that's made me sit there and go "whaaaaaaaa....?!". Like if a model in a unit fails a stupidity test while the unit is inside the building, he forces the entire unit out of the building who then can't do anything for the rest of the turn?! :cheese:

Toodles

Ranhothep
17-08-2010, 14:35
An interesting example, which supports what I was saying about the choices you have to make. Maybe he was saving the dice to dispell a spell of yours he was afraid of, but you decided to not cast it, or could have been out of range for example, or simply didn't meet the casting value, so he decided to spend his dispell dice as best as he could. Now obviously, you can't wait and see and then consider your options, which could be an intended feature, but then again it can be misused unfairly by the casting player

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 14:42
An interesting example, which supports what I was saying about the choices you have to make. Maybe he was saving the dice to dispell a spell of yours he was afraid of, but you decided to not cast it, or could have been out of range for example, or simply didn't meet the casting value, so he decided to spend his dispell dice as best as he could. Now obviously, you can't wait and see and then consider your options, which could be an intended feature, but then again it can be misused unfairly by the casting player

This wording about the magic phase really makes me cringe, but I'm assuming when you say someone can take advantage of it you mean:

If the last spell of the phase is out of range (assume a magic missile, for instance), it can't be cast legally and therefore is not a "useful spell" and ends the turn.
If you cast the last spell of the turn, run out of dice and fail, it ends the phase as you no longer have any dice to cast any spells with.
If you try and cast every spell once and have left over dice, the spell ends because you can't cast any more useful spells.

On the plus side:

If you choose not to cast the last spell of the turn (and have power dice left over) because you don't want to (assuming its' not a repeat of a RiP spell), your opponent can then dispel a RiP spell (as you have a useful spell and dice to cast it with, you're just not bothering to).

Wow. I hate this book in so many ways after the last two weeks.

Toodles

Ranhothep
17-08-2010, 14:51
Imagine a situation like this (among many many others) I have Fireball left as my last spell with 2 dice. I am only in range for the boosted version. However I declare my phase is over, stating that the Fireball spell is not usefull to me under the current circumstances and thus I have no other spells and no more usefull spells.

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 15:13
Imagine a situation like this (among many many others) I have Fireball left as my last spell with 2 dice. I am only in range for the boosted version. However I declare my phase is over, stating that the Fireball spell is not usefull to me under the current circumstances and thus I have no other spells and no more usefull spells.

Pretty much what I thought actually, if you can't potentially achieve the higher casting value with the two dice and your mage level, the phase ends.

Nuffle save us all from these profanities - I am seriously beginning to think the team of monkeys GW hired to write this book need more bananas. Lucky we have common sense, right? ;)

Toodles

Finarflin
17-08-2010, 15:17
Just two little side questions, as I'm not quite sure what is being discussed here, but I think it has something to do with this:

This happened in a friendly game against my most regular of opponents: One turn he cast Transformation of Kadon, and I did not dispel it. I did not manage to dispel it in my turn either. His turn comes around again. He only has one mage left that has been transformed into a hydra by the spell. As he is transformed he cannot cast. (Question 1. Does this mean the magic phase is over and I cannot dispel it?) He rolled a double 6 for the winds of magic. I then used 6 dice to dispel ToK. He then cast it again on 6 dice after we looked in the BRB and could not find anything that would mean he could not. (Quetion 2. is this allowed to happen?)

Sorry if this has been explained, and thank you if anyone answers me.

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 15:23
You might not like this one, but:

He cast ToK. Fine, he now has a big gribbly.
In your turn, you couldn't dispel it, it stays in effect. Fine again.
In his turn, since his only mage could no longer cast spells (as he's now a great big monster) and he no longer has any useful spells he can cast, the magic phase would have been automatically over without giving you another chance to dispel it again until your magic phase, which would have meant he would have gotten a guaranteed turn of being a Hydra.

If, however, he had another mage on the board who was in range with his spells, had power dice, had viable targets, etc, then you could have dispelled it and that same mage who turned into a Hydra would have been able to recast ToK (as it wasn't cast in the same phase you dispelled it).

So, in effect (1) No, you couldn't have dispelled it in that turn you mentioned as his magic phase would have ended as it started and (2) As long as he hasn't failed to cast another remains in play spell that phase, hasn't got a natural total result of 1 or 2, hasn't failed to cast another spell that turn and hasn't already cast the same spell that turn, since it wasn't in the same phase he cast it, he could just cast it again.

Hope that helps.

Which means that if I a single wizard with 12 power dice, fail to cast my first spell, the phase ends before anything else can happen :cheese:. So it can go both ways.

Toodles

Finarflin
17-08-2010, 15:28
Yes, thank you, that has clarified everything marvelously. :D

Oglog
17-08-2010, 16:36
wait a second! (btw I was finarflin's opponent)
that means that if I have ONE mage on the board who is a hydra and no others, then there is no magic phase, so the opponent has to dispell using his power dice. Surely it is then advantageous to have only one mage in this sistuation.

Kneedles
17-08-2010, 17:08
Dwarf players - remember you get 2d6 power dice in your own magic phase to dispel remains in play spells.

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 19:17
wait a second! (btw I was finarflin's opponent)
that means that if I have ONE mage on the board who is a hydra and no others, then there is no magic phase, so the opponent has to dispell using his power dice. Surely it is then advantageous to have only one mage in this sistuation.

Yes, it is. Except you can't get the +Level bonus to dispel your opponent's spells because your Wizard no longer counts as a Wizard.

And Dwarves do have a pretty disturbing dispel phase too.

Toodles

Yrrdead
17-08-2010, 19:28
My question is how does this affect the sequencing of spells or other effects that occur at the "end" of the magic phase.

For example I cast Curse of Years on a unit. My opponent couldn't dispel it. During his own magic phase he uses all his dice casting. Now during my next magic phase , he saves two dice. I use all my dice and meet the conditions for the magic phase to be over. Can he still now dispel CoY? When in the sequencing does CoY's happen. (I know that it says at the end of the Magic Phase) . Does this mean the very last action. Or does this (and spells like it) prevent the magic phase from being over due to the previous stated conditions?

Can I declare that since we are at the end of the magic phase CoY's is happening? Is his dispel attempt a "fast effect" or an "interrupt"?

Sorry for the MTG references.

Killjoy00
17-08-2010, 19:56
I would only add that the rules say you can attempt to dispel a RIP spell "at any time" - so you should be able to do it in the middle of someone else's casting, etc.

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 20:03
Sorry for the MTG references.

No worries dude, though I haven't seen anyone use the term "interrupt" for a few years ;)

Well the rules in the BRB seem pretty clear on this one sadly. As you said CoY does tell us it triggers at the end of the magic phase. The magic phase doesn't end until...well, it ends.:rolleyes: You would go about casting your spells as before (and with the opponent trying to dispel them accordingly). It doesn't matter in the slightest about whether or not he's hoarding dispel dice still, if you have finished your magic phase either because you have run out of dice or you have "no more useful spells" left to cast, then you can end the magic phase and trigger effects like CoY (as they have to work at the end of the magic phase) and make your opponent lose his dispel dice.

He can however use his "interrupt" to try and dispel the dice at any point during the magic phase to dispel CoY EXCEPT if you've already ended the magic phase (when CoY would trigger) which triggers as soon as one of the set requirements is met or if you're in the process of resolving a spell. Which still means he can stop it technically at " near interrupt speed". In other words, he can't declare "In response to you ending your magic phase and putting that on the stack" but can say "In response to you declaring your spell, target and dice, I'll throw my dispel at the RiP spell".

If he doesn't, it stays in effect again and triggers as soon as your last spell resolves or you fail to cast your last useable spell. He needs to be careful though because if he fails to dispel your RiP spell, he can't attempt any more dispel attempts for the rest of the phase.

So we're in a wierd dichotomy where the best time to dispel RiP is at the end of the phase, but you have to do it (realistically) before the dice are rolled for the last useable spell otherwise we risk not being able to dispel anything for the rest of that phase.

Toodles

Pariah1
17-08-2010, 21:02
Wow...this is bonkers. So lemme get this straight...just an example here.

I have 1 mage, my opponent has 0. I cast the big bad "I'm a dragon" spell...he fails to dispell it or it was cast with 6 dice for IR etc. Now neither of us have any mages, thus neither of us can have an actual magic phase to dispell in "subsequest" magic phases because neither have a mage that can potentially cast a spell?

Someone tell me I'm totally misunderstanding these rules.

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 21:14
Wow...this is bonkers. So lemme get this straight...just an example here.

I have 1 mage, my opponent has 0. I cast the big bad "I'm a dragon" spell...he fails to dispell it or it was cast with 6 dice for IR etc. Now neither of us have any mages, thus neither of us can have an actual magic phase to dispell in "subsequest" magic phases because neither have a mage that can potentially cast a spell?

Someone tell me I'm totally misunderstanding these rules.

I managed to get my hands on the BRB so I could examine this one properly.

Well, according to the BRB, the sequence goes:

Roll for Winds of magic,
Cast spells,
Dispel spells,
Resolve cast spells,
Repeat process.

The problem is that stupid little paragraph at the end of page 37 tells us:

"When the casting player has finished all his casting attempts, either because he has run out of power dice or has no remaining or useful spells to cast (or if all his Wizards have had their concentration broken by failing to cast a spell) the Magic phase ends, and the Shooting phase begins.".

The ToK spell tells us that the Wizard stops being able to cast spells, channel dice, etc.

As I see it, there are two sides to this argument, the first that tells us you can:

In essence, since you look at casting spells AFTER you roll the Winds of Magic and the BRB tells us that you can try to dispel a RiP "at any time during a subsequent magic phase" that you could squeeze it in inbetween rolling the Winds of Magic and ending the phase (since the rules for ending the phase don't tell us that we can't roll for the Winds of Magic first).

The other argument is that, because none of you have any wizards with any useful spells or spells you can even attempt to cast, the phase(s) will end before you roll the Winds of Magic (as the rules for the phase ending don't give us any timing as to when this could happen).

Hmm...

Toodles

Pariah1
17-08-2010, 21:24
This is how we've been playing...though to be honest it was because it's how we've played in the past with 7th

PlayerA: I'm done casting magic phase ends
PlayerB: Im interupting your magic phase ends to dispell your RIP and magic phase now ends
PlayerA I have 3 dice left and can now cast a spell again as the RIP spells was dispelled *cast spell* (dispell attemp) magic phase ends
PlayerB: Ihave no more Dispell dice the magic phase has ended.

I guess this really only works if this is a case of poorly written rules and not a case of
GW writter:*Takes big Toke* "This is an AWSOME idea"

Otherwise I can potentially see some real pissed off dwarf players who waste their armies 12 Dispell dice =D...not that I'd mind, I hate dwarves...

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 21:29
Otherwise I can potentially see some real pissed off dwarf players who waste their armies 12 Dispell dice =D...not that I'd mind, I hate dwarves...

Bad form of me, but I sniggered when I saw this :D

For friendly games I always give my opponent warning that I won't be casting anything else and give him the chance to take the dispel attempt.

Competitively though, I think I'm going to upset someone :shifty:

Needs an FAQ?

Toodles

Yrrdead
17-08-2010, 21:33
This is how we've been playing...though to be honest it was because it's how we've played in the past with 7th

PlayerA: I'm done casting magic phase ends
PlayerB: Im interupting your magic phase ends to dispell your RIP and magic phase now ends
PlayerA I have 3 dice left and can now cast a spell again as the RIP spells was dispelled *cast spell* (dispell attemp) magic phase ends
PlayerB: Ihave no more Dispell dice the magic phase has ended.

I guess this really only works if this is a case of poorly written rules and not a case of
GW writter:*Takes big Toke* "This is an AWSOME idea"

Otherwise I can potentially see some real pissed off dwarf players who waste their armies 12 Dispell dice =D...not that I'd mind, I hate dwarves...

That's kind of the point. This no longer applies in 8th. Honestly this thread is the first time I've realized this. I guess these kinds of things are bound to come up in an edition change.

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 21:45
That's kind of the point. This no longer applies in 8th. Honestly this thread is the first time I've realized this. I guess these kinds of things are bound to come up in an edition change.

Like immortal Hydra handlers that give away no VP's, misconceptions about ToV not protecting you on a miscast, Mind Razor + Inspiring Presence not working with each other, a single stupid model in a unit forcing the entire unit to leave the building and not be able to do anything else for the rest of the turn, Lvl 0 mages still being able to possibly channel and now Dwarves who lose their RiP dispel phase?

Yeah, I'd say so. :eyebrows:

Toodles

Pariah1
17-08-2010, 22:06
Yup, can't wait to cast pandemonium with my Tz Sorcerer or Curse of the leper with a nurgle sorc with IR, get a miscast result of lose D3 levels, have no eligable caster anymore and see a dwarf player fume he no longer gets his characters leadership for the rest of the game or watch a unit disintegrate because of leperousy...better yet..if this is intended, during a dwarf players turn he has no casters so wouldnt have any opportunity to dispell during his magic phase....same goes for anyone without a caster in thier army? That must be what TheTrueSloth was getting at....?

Of course would a RIP spell stay in play if your wizard turned into a level zero?...ok I'm done, I'm just making stupid comments now.

In truth I very much hope that this was very unintended.

TheTrueSloth
17-08-2010, 22:27
That was what I hinted could have been one of the arguments that spawned from that page in the magic lore, yes. Although I also pointed out the counter argument to it. :p


In essence, since you look at casting spells AFTER you roll the Winds of Magic and the BRB tells us that you can try to dispel a RiP "at any time during a subsequent magic phase" that you could squeeze it in inbetween rolling the Winds of Magic and ending the phase (since the rules for ending the phase don't tell us that we can't roll for the Winds of Magic first).

For the record, I really don't believe it should be played that way with the Dwarves (yes, me using RAI :eek:). I hope GW seriously meant something different or it was unintended, because if its' not, the magic phase just got crazier.

I have to say though, considering this is the 8th edition of Warhammer, I would have expected tidier rules than this.

Toodles

Pariah1
18-08-2010, 01:24
I think we'll be using the alls fair rules that we have been. I just wish there werent so many rules that ******s can try and manipluate to thier favor. A common counter argument to squeezing it into after the winds of magic roll could potentially be as follows:

Me: ok...my dwarves are rolling for the winds now so I can dispell your RIP stuff

******: umm*pushes up glasses* actually it says the casting player rolls the winds of magic...therefore since you have no casters ergo eratum (other made up stupid latin dead words) you are not a casting player...ergo errblaaahhh you cannot roll winds of magic * snort*

Me: *Punches ****** in the glasses*

****** *snort* thats unsportsmanlike conduct, I'm deducting from your score!!

Me *punches ****** again*

Synnister
18-08-2010, 01:51
lol that was funny ... oh and if you try to pull that you can't dispell on my dwarves you'll be the bitch in that story :P

Pariah1
18-08-2010, 04:47
lol that was funny ... oh and if you try to pull that you can't dispell on my dwarves you'll be the bitch in that story :P

Settle down fatty!! You're old and out of shape, I'd have to hurt your feelings...I'm totally getting nerd glasses when I play your dwarves next.

Ranhothep
18-08-2010, 08:36
Good catch with the dwarves! The problem now is, how much of the "phase ends after the last spell" is intended and has some reasons and how much is just lazy wording to indicate that this is when you should start shooting. As it is currently, indeed the stubby little smelly runts a.k.a. dwarves, can't dispell in their magic phase. This obviously is not intended, but I could imagine that they intended to force players to use their dispell dice before they saw whether the opponent manages to cast his last spell or not if they want to dispell a RIP spell.

As to other RIP spells, I guess you could actually squeeze the dispell attempt inbetween a spell's casting and resolve spell step during your opponents magic phase.

Would u guys think it's possible to dispell a RIP ToV once you see your opponent got a IF on some spell, to prevent him from using the 2+ ToV save? Kind of "in response" to his IF, before the spell resolves entirely I dispell your throne so you get a regular miscast?

Yrrdead
18-08-2010, 09:03
Good catch with the dwarves! The problem now is, how much of the "phase ends after the last spell" is intended and has some reasons and how much is just lazy wording to indicate that this is when you should start shooting. As it is currently, indeed the stubby little smelly runts a.k.a. dwarves, can't dispell in their magic phase. This obviously is not intended, but I could imagine that they intended to force players to use their dispell dice before they saw whether the opponent manages to cast his last spell or not if they want to dispell a RIP spell.

As to other RIP spells, I guess you could actually squeeze the dispell attempt inbetween a spell's casting and resolve spell step during your opponents magic phase.

Would u guys think it's possible to dispell a RIP ToV once you see your opponent got a IF on some spell, to prevent him from using the 2+ ToV save? Kind of "in response" to his IF, before the spell resolves entirely I dispell your throne so you get a regular miscast?

That's an awesome thought btw. Just imagining the incredulous look on an opponents face as you say "Nice roll, but I'm dispelling ToV prior to you resolving that cast."

Ranhothep
18-08-2010, 09:17
This new edition will create a lot of incredulous looks untill it's properly FAQed I'm afraid :(

But given the fact that there are no timing rules within the magic phase inbetween rolling the dice to cast a spell and proceeding to spell resolution is as good a "point in time" as any to dispell a RIP spell. Additionally, there has to be a "window" for actions after you roll the dice for a casting attempt, since there are several magic items that can modify the roll