PDA

View Full Version : On fighting Bret and Ratboys



hacknslashgamer
17-08-2010, 13:33
Ok I need to choose between Cannons and Grudge throwers which is better against both of those armies.
I am trying for 3 bolt th and 2 cannons or 2 grudge throwers
in a 3000 point army
Weaken them up before they get to me
and then pound my heavy weapons up their ****.

Artinam
17-08-2010, 13:37
With Bretonnians it depends on the army. A heavy Knight Army will fear cannons more (and bolthrowers) then Grudge throwers as they no longer ignore armour saves. Second, cannons allow for a better way to take out Bretonnian Trebuchet (very deadly in this edition with S5). If he is playing with a lot Men-at-Arms (as some do right now) then the Grudgethrower might work better.

Skaven I don't know, but I guess throwing templates on their large blocks is a must.

BTW, this topic might be better in the tactics forum, just sayin.

bfeijter
17-08-2010, 13:41
drop the bolt throwers :)
Dwarf BS is meh

Holy_Combat
17-08-2010, 13:41
I saw an organ gun take out all but three cold one knights in one round of shooting. The unit was a 10 man unit.

ooglatjama
17-08-2010, 13:42
Cannons with flaming. Kills knights and HPAs.

hacknslashgamer
17-08-2010, 17:14
Maybe I will go 2 Bolt Th,2 Grudge,2 Cannons and sit back all day.Its not supposed to be all shooty for that I plan on squeezing in like 10 war machines

Malorian
17-08-2010, 19:57
Cannons with flaming. Kills knights and HPAs.

I'll second this.

Can't go wrong with organ guns either :)

Lowmans
17-08-2010, 20:09
Or, for comedy value against Skaven.

Take Bugman with two big Ranger blocks.
1 or 2 miner units.
Slayers
thane w/ rune of brotherhood
Anvil.

Pick a flank.

You won't win but it's an absolute comedy bloodbath!

Blackknight1239
17-08-2010, 20:19
As a Bret player, I think I'm more scared of the Cannons than anything else. Lance formation isn't great for that. Still, 1/3 to not die to a cannonball to the face is cool.

Gekiganger
17-08-2010, 20:23
Cannons with flaming. Kills knights and HPAs.


I'll second this.

Can't go wrong with organ guns either :)

This, 8th has made it so armies with flaming are generally a lot safer off, but I have a fetish for organ guns, because when they go right they're glorious.

GodlessM
17-08-2010, 20:26
2 Flaming Cannons, 2 Organ Guns, and a Grudge Thrower with 2 Runes of Penetrating. Can't go wrong there no matter which of the two armies you face.

Col. Dash
17-08-2010, 21:22
I would say cannons. You can hurt knights really well. In addition against a tower heavy skaven list the cannons will be essential to hurting them. Organ guns would be nice too to thin the numbers.

Little Joe
18-08-2010, 12:54
I would give the grudge thrower with a rune of penetration, rune of accuracy and rune of burning a go, the other grudge thrower gets a second rune of penetration and no rune of burning. Combined with two master engineers(skip the engineers), you get to reroll either or both dice(artillery and scatter) if you need to and can give them entrenchment. For short range get two organ guns and Thunderers. I know this costs about 190 points more(thunderers excluded), but master engineers are great thunderer champions;).

Bret Knights will take more casualties due to the enhanced rules for templates as to cannons. Say you hit a unit of nine regular knights(no heroes) with the weaker grudge thrower, that is 8 wounds on 5+, saved on a 3+ and 1 wound on a 2+, no armour save = 2.6 kills. The cannon hits three ranks and kills on a 5+ = 2.5 kills and I assume you gave him a rune of forging. This is the avarage deathcount for good hits with both machines.
- The other kills 3.5 knights on average good dwarf shooting.
- Grudge throwers ignore terrain, cannons hate hard cover.
- Grudge throwers have more range and can hit anything, but I admit this is of little consequence on an average battlefield. Thunderers take care of the last 12" killing zone.
- Both do D6 wounds, giving the grudge thrower an edge if the unit contains any heroes. Suppose you don't kill the hero in the first rank the cannonball stops killing.
- Entrenchment is good for flanks and knights not killing a warmachine head on. Plus those archers have less war machines to shoot at.
- The real killing is on all the other troops though, grudge throwers are way better due to templates. And hardy dwarfs can take incoming knights.

Against Skaven the worst single unit to expect is a HPA, which both can take care of. But the rest is hordes, and those scream for a good grudge stone. Quarrellers have greater range, but I prefer thunderers as they are killier on short range(panic tests) and kill those weapon teams without them taking that armour save. Here the master engineers gets to shoot at a different target and can kill another weapon team, enhancing the efficiency.

Feefait
18-08-2010, 13:02
Make your own decision. Showing up to play an opponent with a Warseer created army is poor sport. Especially if playing a friend.

GodlessM
18-08-2010, 13:27
Make your own decision. Showing up to play an opponent with a Warseer created army is poor sport. Especially if playing a friend.

Trolling and not helping is also bad sport. Besides, how is asking a decision on 2-3 units class as a 'Warsser created army'?

hacknslashgamer
18-08-2010, 13:47
Hey guys I wanted your opinions on games that you have played against Bret and the Ratboys. I will make MY own decisions and I thank everybody that helped me with suggestions.
I have not or will I ever use an army made by somebody else, I just see a COUPLE of good ideas and add SOME of them to my army.
Again thank you everybody for your help.

Feefait
18-08-2010, 20:25
Not trolling at all. He wanted an opinion, I gave mine. Maybe it's not the answer he's looking for but it is an answer. If I spend an hour or more making a list and then show up to play someone and find out they've made their army, even a portion of it off the internet or by someones suggestion it's not the same. It's like if I write my 10 page paper in school and someone else shows up with theirs, only 3 pages of it are plagiarized. I would consider it cheating. Sure this is a game and you still have to play it, but to me army making is a large percentage of the game. If I am playing a friendly game I assume we are all under the same rules and using the same resources. I know people who believe they are 'better players' by suing tricks they find online or entire army lists. I just fully disagree. if I take Malorian's army, or even the core of it it is his army and his win, not mine.

If he wants advice on a tournament list or something like that, post the list in the correct section. I can see why posting it here helps, as it gets more views, but there is a place for it. I read the post as a "tell me what to take", if that was an incorrect assumption I am sorry and do not mean any negative implications.

Kevlar
18-08-2010, 21:29
Not trolling at all. He wanted an opinion, I gave mine. Maybe it's not the answer he's looking for but it is an answer. If I spend an hour or more making a list and then show up to play someone and find out they've made their army, even a portion of it off the internet or by someones suggestion it's not the same. It's like if I write my 10 page paper in school and someone else shows up with theirs, only 3 pages of it are plagiarized. I would consider it cheating. Sure this is a game and you still have to play it, but to me army making is a large percentage of the game. If I am playing a friendly game I assume we are all under the same rules and using the same resources. I know people who believe they are 'better players' by suing tricks they find online or entire army lists. I just fully disagree. if I take Malorian's army, or even the core of it it is his army and his win, not mine.

If he wants advice on a tournament list or something like that, post the list in the correct section. I can see why posting it here helps, as it gets more views, but there is a place for it. I read the post as a "tell me what to take", if that was an incorrect assumption I am sorry and do not mean any negative implications.

I can't believe someone would make 750 posts on a warhammer message board telling people not to take advice about how to play warhammer. I smell a troll. And not one from the O&G army book.

snakezenn
19-08-2010, 05:36
As a skaven player myself i would say it depends on which army the skaven player is bringing, if he has been know to bring a bell or the furnace cannon it to death but if he brings an infantry army then definately by all means bring the grudge thrower. Oh and ALWAYS have flaming for if you run into an ABOMB