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dreadhead
18-08-2010, 10:20
It may seem a stupid question, but I'm genunienly curious as to why they're so popular, and I'd like to here from anyone with an opinion.

bigcheese76
18-08-2010, 10:30
Im not too sure on how the became initially so popular, but it is quite easy to see why they are so popular now and why so many people are picking them up, particularly new people to the hobby. If you go to your local GW store and watch an intro game going on, you will notice the Space Marines are put in an amazing light in comparrison with the other armies. Another reason for their increased popularity is the fact that they are one of the two cheapest armies to collect thanks to Black Reach. Also, most if not all units in the codex are available from GW, so dont require a FW purchase of a conversion for youself.

Damien 1427
18-08-2010, 10:38
It may seem a stupid question, but I'm genunienly curious as to why they're so popular, and I'd like to here from anyone with an opinion.

They're popular because they're so heavily pushed - From the huge variety of Beakies (Red ones, blue ones, black ones, furry ones, green ones, dark green ones...), to the enormous model range.

And they're so heavily pushed, because they're popular.

I suppose that they're a pretty good "beginner" army with some of the best all-round infantry in the entire game, one of the toughest non-super heavy tanks in the game, and are able to be tailored to any particular play-style without a great deal of effort, certainly helps the appeal.

I recall Rogue Trader mentioning that the appeal for GW designing them was having an army of Imperial Storm Troopers, or Dune Sardaukar. I think that appeal plays into it as well.

Dreachon
18-08-2010, 10:39
Reasons why SM are so populair.

1. nearly all plastic model range.
2. GW's poster boys so they get a lot of attention from GW.
3. frequent updates.
4. model range hat get's far more updates and expansions.
5. bad ass dudes in armour with big guns.
6. appear in every starterset.

The Marshel
18-08-2010, 10:45
a lot of people will tell you they are popular simply because gw pushes them so much, and that the reason why they sell so well is because of all their support and so on.

It may seem like a self satisfying philosophy, but you gotta remember that the heavy support had to start at some point, which means at some point Marines earnt that heavy support, and thats to that the have enjoyed it ever since.

as far as i am aware when rt first came out marines were pretty much it for humans. i believe guard existed bu ot in a heavily supported or produced form. people tend to favour humans in sci fi games, just rooting for the home team i guess. As far as i know marines simply became so insanely popular in those early days that they basically drove Rouge trader into the modern 40k game we play today. they have simply established a position as gw's most loved son, and will likely never lose that pedestal

xxRavenxx
18-08-2010, 10:46
Theyre a great army for GW to push on beginners too, as they dont fill a niche that other armies do. This means that when you get bored, you have every army (except maybe chaos... and possibly necrons...?) available to pick from to catch your interest for army number two.

Lord Damocles
18-08-2010, 10:52
While it's tempting to say that Marines are popular because they get frequent updates (models, rules, and variants), how many people actually start a Marine army because of this/these factor(s)?

I'd say that the popularity of Marines is more likely due to the way they're promoted by GW to new gamers - they're always in the starter boxset, they're generally the better force in said boxset, GW staff promote them as being the 'good guys'/best force.

IJW
18-08-2010, 10:55
When Rogue Trader came out in the late Eighties the Space Marines were the only army that had plastic models available. Everyone else had all-metal ranges.

http://solegends.com/citrt/rtb01marines.htm

Plus Marines were on the cover of the rulebook, many of the White Dwarf issues, had one of the first full army lists and were associated with most of the 'cool' equipment like Powered Armour and Land Raiders. Plus vast numbers of Chapter Approved articles in White Dwarf.

woodfin
18-08-2010, 11:08
Its the whole idea of crusaders in power armor that makes them so popular.

Yunaris
18-08-2010, 11:11
Reasons why SM are so populair.

1. nearly all plastic model range.
2. GW's poster boys so they get a lot of attention from GW.
3. frequent updates.
4. model range hat get's far more updates and expansions.
5. bad ass dudes in armour with big guns.
6. appear in every starterset.


What this guy basically said. When you come to play WFB you'll probably see atleast half a dozen armies in a decent collection of players, at the very least. If you come along to play 40K you can expect to see half the players at the very least running around with Space Marines.

Space Marines are the poster boys of 40K, they're the place every new kid who walks into the shop is dragged over to. They're in every starter set and are almost assured a new codex every year for atleast one chapter.

Basically GW put themselves in a bind. They've bashed on about Space Marines so much they now literally are required to keep doing it because such a considerable amount of their 40K sales are related directly to Space Marines.

Aedes
18-08-2010, 11:13
Well, they are Superheroes and brave knights in shiny armour in space.
That is just cool.

LonelyPath
18-08-2010, 11:21
When Rogue Trader came out in the late Eighties the Space Marines were the only army that had plastic models available. Everyone else had all-metal ranges.

http://solegends.com/citrt/rtb01marines.htm

Plus Marines were on the cover of the rulebook, many of the White Dwarf issues, had one of the first full army lists and were associated with most of the 'cool' equipment like Powered Armour and Land Raiders. Plus vast numbers of Chapter Approved articles in White Dwarf.

^ What this says ^

SM are not popular because they've been pushed, they're pushed because they have always been the most popular (which GW were smart enough to cash in on straight away).

Zweischneid
18-08-2010, 11:32
When Rogue Trader came out in the late Eighties the Space Marines were the only army that had plastic models available. Everyone else had all-metal ranges.

http://solegends.com/citrt/rtb01marines.htm

Plus Marines were on the cover of the rulebook, many of the White Dwarf issues, had one of the first full army lists and were associated with most of the 'cool' equipment like Powered Armour and Land Raiders. Plus vast numbers of Chapter Approved articles in White Dwarf.

Well, GW released their first Space Marine miniature even before Rogue Trader in the early 1980s. The term "Space Marine" is in the Citadel catalogue of 83. And before that there was a range of "Spacefarers". These didn't even have rules and were only meant for role-players and still were an instant run-away success right from the start.

Arguably, GW only started working on the Rogue Trader after they realized that this little Sci-Fi mini means £££$€ and they couldn't just fit it into their existing fantasy line. (There are however, some funny articles from the mid-1980s termed "Sci-Fi in Warhammer and some such, where they tried to do just that; i.e. get people to play with those minis in Warhammer without needing to push a whole new game).

40K the game, very literally, only exists because the Space Marine was a success.

Balfor
18-08-2010, 11:36
i guess so many people round my way play them because 1: they are good looking models, 2: they are a decent all rounded army, and 3: they are pretty badass if played corretly :)

Scythe
18-08-2010, 11:42
What keeps them popular isn't a difficult question to answer. What initially made them so popular is more interesting though. My thought on why space marines quickly became the most popular 40k army:

- They are easy to paint. Unlike guard, with those human faces, or eldar, with their endless details, space marines are straightforward. One primary color, large surfaces, etc. It is easy and relatively not so time consuming to make them look decent.
- As an elite army, they have a limited amount of models in their army. This makes them cheaper to collect, and less time consuming to assemble / paint.
- They have got that whole 'superman in space' thing going on. They are the best, and they are profiled as such. They are superior to humans, and at the same time also superior (individually) to those space elves, space dwarfs and space orks around. That attracts people. They are humans, but at the same time so much more.

I think those are the main reasons for the initial popularity of marines. After that, GW saw what was going on, and capitalized on it, bringing additional factors in the equation, like the presence in every starter set, large amount of plastics, variant themes (marine vampires, marine vikings, marine angels, marine knights/templars), etc.

hawo0313
18-08-2010, 12:16
Every intro game I see the new player plays as space marines and every time this new player wins. This combination of being introduced not to 40k but to space marines and their enemies be it tyranids from 4th or orks from 5th. As mentioned above they have variety you can essentially use the same set of models for a variety of different armies and thier model selection alone far outstrips that of other factions. The also have anoble aspect of protection and devotion to the imperium which appeals to new players who see them as the shining hope in the grimdark 41st millenium

Spoik
18-08-2010, 12:33
1. They are iconic.
2. They are elite.
3. They are human (ish).
4. They are (seen as) heroic.
5. They are cheap and easy to collect.
6. They are easy to paint and convert.
7. They tie into all sorts of exciting images: knights, superheroes, warriors of the gods...

Also, they have a widespread appeal. Want larger-than-life heroes? You got 'em. Want fascistic oppressors? Them as well. Want your first army? They're a great starting point. Want your 17th army? Space marines will be quick, easy and relatively cheap. A lot of players love the 40k imagery, and at the heart of that is the Imperium, and their elite soldiers... the Space Marines.

RunepriestRidcully
18-08-2010, 13:22
I think the fact they are the one army that has all their unit choices stocked in GW stores, and a good degree of their SC in as well, whilst most other armies have at least one or two unit or charecter choices that are mail order only, hard for a beginner to start an army where they have to order some of their units in rather then just buy it off the shelf.

Hellebore
18-08-2010, 13:30
^ What this says ^

SM are not popular because they've been pushed, they're pushed because they have always been the most popular (which GW were smart enough to cash in on straight away).

You're saying that GW cashed in on the popularity of a product they hadn't even started SELLING yet?

GW started pushing marines from the getgo. They had no idea how popular they'd be because they hadn't started selling them at that point. If you release one plastic box and it sells well, is it because of what it is or because in 1988 there weren't any multipart plastic scifi miniatures around?

As for the current climate, I have an experiment:

Go into a GW, or send someone you know in. Ask to play an intro game. Ask to play using an army OTHER than space marines. See if you can.

The evidence I've seen suggests you can't. what does it say when GW doesn't even acknowledge the majority of their stock to first time customers?

They prentend nothing else exists, why would a new customer buy something they weren't even allowed to try out first? GW are deliberately only allowing customers to use space marines so they naturally only start out buying space marines.

GW sells many, many armies. There is no excuse ('it's too hard to paint so many wah! is not a legitimate excuse for such ridiculous sales failure) for having a 'play before you buy' system in place that only lets you play ONE (or two if there are two of you and the staffer can't get you both to use the marines against his badguy orks) army they sell.

That's like going to a ford dealer that only offers a test drive in a Fiesta.

Until GW actually allows potential customers to make an informed choice about their embryonic hobby, there will be no parity in sales. They don't have every army painted on display with a blurb about them, so that you can be drawn to the ones you like. They don't, when asked to play an intro game, allow you to point out the army YOU like to test drive. No, they shove space marines into your hands and then spout propaganda about how they're the greatest and then proceed to cheat the rules so the space marines win.

You'd expect that sort of dishonest salesmanship from a company rep when demonstrating a DIFFERENT company's product, but not their own.

Hellebore

Zweischneid
18-08-2010, 13:42
You're saying that GW cashed in on the popularity of a product they hadn't even started SELLING yet?

GW started pushing marines from the getgo. They had no idea how popular they'd be because they hadn't started selling them at that point. If you release one plastic box and it sells well, is it because of what it is or because in 1988 there weren't any multipart plastic scifi miniatures around?


Sorry. But you're wrong.

The first Space Marine miniatures came out in 1983/84 (and Spacefarer minis even before that). Rogue Trader wasn't published until 1987.

The first Space Marine minis were a massive success even before they actually had rules or fluff to go with them. They even tried to squeeze their Sci-Fi stuff into Warhammer without starting a new game http://solegends.com/citcomp1/citcomp1016-01.htm

Rogue Trader eventually was written because Space Marines were successful, not the other way around.

Hellebore
18-08-2010, 13:48
RT was built off the backs of Warhammer Fantasy as a natural accompanyment and the rules for Laserburn.

Rogue Trader was announced about 5 years before it ever saw the light of day. Sales of that one miniature in no way were the reason it was made.

Which also has nothing to do with GW's current one sided business practices. No one in the field would claim space marines are popular based on sales if they'd seen how GW markets them.

Hellebore

sic
18-08-2010, 13:58
Space Marines arent popular because GW push them (which of course they do) Space Marines are popular because who doesnt want to be a 7 foot tall super soldier fighting with honour and valour?

Of course GW have pushed them as a cash cow and why wouldnt they? They make a ton of money for them which is why they have such an extensive range in the first place.

Personally I love Space Marines, they were my first army and will always hold a special place in my heart. Interestingly enough for a long time in my gaming group I was the only Marine player so im not sure the idea that everyone starts with Marines is set in stone.

I really like the duality of them, sure they are super soldiers fighting for the glory of the empire but they are a long way from 'good guys'.

Oh and they look cool, we all know how far that can take you.

IJW
18-08-2010, 14:02
And before that there was a range of "Spacefarers". These didn't even have rules and were only meant for role-players and still were an instant run-away success right from the start.
Laserburn and Traveller players made heavy use of the Spacefarers range, from what I can remember.


They even tried to squeeze their Sci-Fi stuff into Warhammer without starting a new game http://solegends.com/citcomp1/citcomp1016-01.htm
I knew that Bolters and Flight Packs had been around for several years in WFB before RT was published, but I'd forgotten that Hand Flamers and Vortex Grenades predated Rogue Trader by so much!

Zweischneid
18-08-2010, 14:04
RT was built off the backs of Warhammer Fantasy as a natural accompanyment and the rules for Laserburn.

Rogue Trader was announced about 5 years before it ever saw the light of day. Sales of that one miniature in no way were the reason it was made.

Which also has nothing to do with GW's current one sided business practices. No one in the field would claim space marines are popular based on sales if they'd seen how GW markets them.

Hellebore

Well, the original Rogue Trader announcements heralded a game of space ship combat in deep space. If anything, they just prove how the popularity of the Space Marine minis captured the company.

And yes, GW is pushing what sells. What's wrong with that? I am not going into a Nokia Store expecting they give equal purchase to their Rubberboots next to their mobile phones. But that doesn't mean that mobile phones are more popular than Rubberboots because Nokia favours them in their marketing.

Nokia doesn't have that sort of market power, and neither does GW.

Seriously, have a look at the Forgeworld website. No pushy redshirts or store displays there. But what do they offer? Eldar? Necrons? Much Fantasy Gaming in general? No, they live on Guard and Space Marines. It's what people want to buy.

Hellebore
18-08-2010, 14:14
The original RT announcment was in 1983, the year WFB first came out. Afaik no space marine, or identifiably space marine models existed in 1983.

You are conflating SciFi with space marine. GW made Doctor Who and Judge Dredd miniatures during the 80s. They had PLENTY of scifi models around. But scifi doesn't = space marine. SCIFI was what was popular, not 'space marine'. This is proven by the fact that a scifi game was in the works as soon as they'd done WFB. There was a market for scifi and they wanted in. Scifi popularity is not space marine popularity.

I was unaware that Nokia sold rubberboots. Does a nokia store stock rubber boots?

You're example is like saying GW stores only stock Space Marines so of course they only sell space marines. you're supposed to get your tyranids from the tyranid outlet.

EDIT: My original example was of the same product - cars. Rubberboots are not the same as phones and as such are not stocked nor looked for in phone shops. All GW's armies fulfill the same purpose in the same market. Nokia wouldn't deliberately obstruct a customer from testing one of the many phones they make - they wouldn't force a customer to only test one phone.

They also wouldn't try to claim that said phone was the most popular if they'd used those practices. They'd show that concerted sales direction within the stores pressured customers into purchasing one type of phone.

Hellebore

gwarsh41
18-08-2010, 14:42
There seems to be a marine army to suit just about every personality.

Godzooky
18-08-2010, 14:47
I was unaware that Nokia sold rubberboots. Does a nokia store stock rubber boots?

Ah, so that's what a booty call is... :shifty:

I personally think space marines have a more immediate appeal to a young mind. I remember loving them straight away as a nipper. I think the other races maybe take a little more immersion in the hobby in order to grow to appreciate, perhaps?

spurker
18-08-2010, 14:58
I personally find it hard to relate to the non-human races and a little bit too close to reality to go for IG, therefore SM are the answer.

GrogDaTyrant
18-08-2010, 15:45
Marketing, and a clear, biased love for them from the dev-team. When the creators themselves (or those currently in charge of development) gravitate towards their favorite faction in a game, that faction tends to have more attention devoted to it. GW's had over a decade to do this, and so this emphasis has spiralled out of control.



I personally find it hard to relate to the non-human races and a little bit too close to reality to go for IG, therefore SM are the answer.

I personally find it excruciatingly difficult to relate to marines. The 'perfection' in which their portrayed, and the way in which they subvert the traits that define a 'hero', make them seem extremely OTT to me. I personally relate best to Orks and IG. Both are underdogs in the grand scheme of things, and tend to be the whipping boyz in the fluff world. They also follow the 'hero' traits better than almost any other army in the game (yes, even Orks). I also tend to rally behind whoever ends up playing against the Yankees in the World Series.

woodfin
18-08-2010, 15:52
Now that I think about it, Space Marines let a monkey have a chance at victory due to their balance and this is the big reason everyone plays them.

Zweischneid
18-08-2010, 16:12
I personally find it excruciatingly difficult to relate to marines. The 'perfection' in which their portrayed, and the way in which they subvert the traits that define a 'hero', make them seem extremely OTT to me. I personally relate best to Orks and IG. Both are underdogs in the grand scheme of things, and tend to be the whipping boyz in the fluff world. They also follow the 'hero' traits better than almost any other army in the game (yes, even Orks). I also tend to rally behind whoever ends up playing against the Yankees in the World Series.


Well, Orks have been in the starter as often as not. Not much to complain here from the Ork-side. If you relate to Orks, just buy AoBR and play Orks as good guys vs. Marines as bad guys.

As for the Guard? Well, the Guard isn't really 40K by and large. The Guard is a marketing ploy to lure in gamers from the more historical/realistic section of the wargaming crowd. Having the Guard, i.e. a vaguely historic US-Vietnam/WWI/WWII army, in the starter would certainly sent a very wrong message about what 40K is all about.

BobbaFett
18-08-2010, 16:20
I just know that when I saw all the trailer of all those videogames: WH40K Dawn of War, DOOM, Starcraft, Gears of War... or James Cameron´s ALIENS...

Those are Space Marines for me, it is a basic concept, everyone knows, everyone likes...

The sad thing about that overpopularity is that everyone plays with space marines. I really enjoy when someone comes with tyranids or Eldar. I´m bored about the battles of Ultramarines against same miniatures with different color scheme...

dreadhead
18-08-2010, 16:21
Well, Orks have been in the starter as often as not. Not much to complain here from the Ork-side. If you relate to Orks, just buy AoBR and play Orks as good guys vs. Marines as bad guys.

As for the Guard? Well, the Guard isn't really 40K by and large. The Guard is a marketing ploy to lure in gamers from the more historical/realistic section of the wargaming crowd. Having the Guard, i.e. a vaguely historic US-Vietnam/WWI/WWII army, in the starter would certainly sent a very wrong message about what 40K is all about.

That's probably true, after all the Guard have Vostroyans, Mordians and Valhallans amongst their number. That said I think a lot of people find it easier to relate to ordinary humans than Space Marines.

woodfin
18-08-2010, 16:29
I just know that when I saw all the trailer of all those videogames: WH40K Dawn of War, DOOM, Starcraft, Gears of War... or James Cameron´s ALIENS...

Those are Space Marines for me, it is a basic concept, everyone knows, everyone likes...

The sad thing about that overpopularity is that everyone plays with space marines. I really enjoy when someone comes with tyranids or Eldar. I´m bored about the battles of Ultramarines against same miniatures with different color scheme...

I agree and disagree, for the fun factor it gets boring but for the tactical factor it is a good thing because you know how it is going to play out and if you keep wining they will most likely try out a new army.

drmckool
18-08-2010, 16:29
Well i play Space Marines (Space Wolves to be exact) not because they are the easiest army but because they are a force built on counter attacking that is relatively inexpensive to build and transport. Over the years i have played 40k i have built (in order) a Dark Eldar, Dark Angel, Space Wolf, Daemonhunter and Tyranid army. I quit the hobby for roughly 3 years and when i came back the army i decided i wanted to play was the Wolves.

ChrisIronBrow
18-08-2010, 16:40
3. frequent updates.



I believe this is the primary reason. If you don't want to get left in the dust of a new edition, or a change in design philosophy-power level, play marines. GW ensures Marines are allways at the cutting edge.

GrogDaTyrant
18-08-2010, 16:46
Well, Orks have been in the starter as often as not. Not much to complain here from the Ork-side. If you relate to Orks, just buy AoBR and play Orks as good guys vs. Marines as bad guys.

Actually, I didn't like the prospect of the Orks being in the latest starter set. Not a fan of AoBR.


As for the Guard? Well, the Guard isn't really 40K by and large. The Guard is a marketing ploy to lure in gamers from the more historical/realistic section of the wargaming crowd. Having the Guard, i.e. a vaguely historic US-Vietnam/WWI/WWII army, in the starter would certainly sent a very wrong message about what 40K is all about.

So let me get this straight... your entire response was 'One army you like shouldn't be in the starter because it's a minor addition to the game, and the other army you like has been a starter-set punching bag twice so you should be happy'? None of my post had anything to do with the starter set. I don't buy them, and have no reason to. My post about the armies I relate to best and my inability to relate to 8', plot-armored, poster boyz was purely a personal opinion in response to another comment.

RunepriestRidcully
18-08-2010, 16:48
Do any of the developers or higher ups at GW even like the other armys? or has it become that when you join, regardless of what you played before you suddenly love marines? Maybe if a non marine fanboy got in we could see the endless cycle broken, as it is I can see the exceeive marine love braking the fanbase and causing people to get fed up of marines all the time and just quitting, anyone else think the excessive marine fest 40k seems to have sadly become contributing to GW's death by a 1000 cuts?

Fixer
18-08-2010, 16:52
It's not just whether people can relate to the army.

People go to an action movie relating more to the tag along character that keeps hiding whenever the gunfire starts or getting used as a hostage. People still think the unrealistic action hero crushing people's skulls in his bare hands while he guns down legions of aliens with a sawn off shotgun is the person that they would want to be.

Space Marines just epitomise the nerdy adolescent ideal of cinematic awesome.

Soldiers with really big guns, trained to a crazy elite level, wearing half a tank and cutting people in half with chainsaws whilst yelling your manly battlecries. Especially since they still fit into the slot of 'heroic good guys'. Even if it is a dark shade o grey in the very black 40k universe

Like it or not, the amount of people that this appeals to is more than:

Elves IN SPACE!
Orks IN SPACE! (or hunched over green coloured football hooligans IN SPACE!)
The Inquisition IN SPACE
Undead robots IN SPACE
Anime fish people IN SPACE
A faceless horde of giant locusts IN SPACE
or the bad guy version of the Space Marines.

GrogDaTyrant
18-08-2010, 17:13
Do any of the developers or higher ups at GW even like the other armys? or has it become that when you join, regardless of what you played before you suddenly love marines?

Supposedly, they do. Phil Kelly was a big fan of the Eldar back in the day, and had his Ulthwe army shown in WD often. Although that doesn't really account for what happened to the Ulthwe in the latest Eldar rendition... but it does explain why Eldrad is only half-dead. People claim he's supposedly an Ork fan for what he did to the codex. But as a long-time Ork player, it came across to me as a rush-job project. Pete Haines (no longer with GW) and Graham McNeil favor Chaos more than anything else, and Gav was... welll... Gav. He like Blood Angels, and Elves and Eldar as far as anyone could tell. Andy Chambers was the last true greenskin lover on the dev-team. Jervis has always been a marine fan first and formost. Matt Ward needs little explaining... And Robin Cruddace is apparently an avid IG player.

But the Devs don't call all the shots. They certainly have some influence.


...as it is I can see the excessive marine love breaking the fanbase and causing people to get fed up of marines all the time and just quitting, anyone else think the excessive marine fest 40k seems to have sadly become contributing to GW's death by a 1000 cuts?

Yes. I've seen it first hand in several of my LGS. Many long time players have either quit 40k entirely and moved on to systems like Flame of War, Warmahordes, etc. Having talked with some of them about this, a lot of it has to do with GW's direction and the excessive marine attention. The kicker for more than a few of them was the removal of the faction-variant lists, and then turning around and releasing more Space Marine codices.

A long time friend of mine who used to play Blood Angels and IG up until early 4th, recently began painting models again (mostly Fantasy). His first comment when he looked at the rack of codices on the wall was 'WTF!? They don't need 5 full codexes for marines!'

Even among my friends who still play 40k, the only ones that are still frequently getting games in are the marine players (note, not CSM). Most of the non-marine 40k players I hang out with have either fully switched to Fantasy, or are simply just working on projects. I myself haven't really felt the desire to play for over a month now.

KingDeath
18-08-2010, 17:17
Is it realy that time of the week again? The Warseer Spacemarine whine?
Where the Xenos/Guard/Chaos players can feel all "elite" because they play "real" armies and not Spess Mehreens?

woodfin
18-08-2010, 17:22
Is it realy that time of the week again? The Warseer Spacemarine whine?
Where the Xenos/Guard/Chaos players can feel all "elite" because they play "real" armies and not Spess Mehreens?

Honestly, chaos is just as overrated.

GrogDaTyrant
18-08-2010, 17:23
Is it realy that time of the week again? The Warseer Spacemarine whine?
Where the Xenos/Guard/Chaos players can feel all "elite" because they play "real" armies and not Spess Mehreens?

Well every other day of the week is 'Look how much better Space Marines are than everything else!' So just give us our day, and then you can go back to your regularly scheduled sponge-bath from GW. :rolleyes: