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yukimura01
18-08-2010, 12:00
has anyone ever got any real use out of this unit as for me reading about it in the list it just does not seem to have any real point for its cost anyway ?, it just seems like an almost pointless unit to me :confused:

Lord Damocles
18-08-2010, 12:02
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247413&highlight=pyrovore
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252142&highlight=pyrovore
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263984&highlight=pyrovore

yukimura01
18-08-2010, 12:08
ah safe thx i was just thinking they were pointless seems im not alone lol

Draconis
18-08-2010, 22:31
They make great biovore models too.

Bestaltan
18-08-2010, 23:18
They do a great job of balancing out the other three fairly decent elite choices on page 89.

They make good paperweights.

Archangel_Ruined
19-08-2010, 00:10
They're not that bad, they just don't compare favourably with the other elites. It's a big difference many overlook.

AbusePuppy
19-08-2010, 08:40
They're expensive for a T4/4+ model, even if they do have two wounds. They have terrible combat stats and a mediocre advantage (oh man a way to ignore armor saves too bad I can't get that anywhere else in the list on better units!) The template is relatively uncommon in the Tyranid list, but blast weapons and volume of fire are not, so it doesn't play a very useful role, as "rooting units out of cover" is something you can do by just assaulting them. There are no units that get both bonuses to cover saves AND are devastating in CC.

In short, while they don't have any outstanding weaknesses, aside from a rather poor statline, they have virtually no high points worth speaking of. Anything they do, something else could be doing better and cheaper, and probably in the same slot as well, if you want it there. They're fighting with some of the best and most useful units in the codex for space and it's not a fight they're going to win.

Souleater
19-08-2010, 08:51
Oh, and their suicide bomb thing only works if they are ID'd and only half the time at that.

Draconis
19-08-2010, 10:26
Yep, sorry, but they pretty much suck. You try walking a big model up the line with your nids so you can get in range of their flamer without them getting hit by a krak missile. Sure, they ignore saves, but their combat stats suck....I1? Ws3?

Ok, so your going to pod them in. Your looking at a ton of points just to get 3 heavy flamers before they die. Any other strats I didnt think of?

Lamoron
19-08-2010, 11:56
Worst thing that ever happened to me when hit by Pyrovores, was loosing an entire grot squad (catastrophe!) :angel:

Leave them at home.

Grey Hunter 88
19-08-2010, 15:35
They're hilarious though. One of those models you encourage your friends to buy, if only to see the looks of horror and disgust on their face when they realize how bad they really are.

I'm wondering if they'd have been worth taking if they could shoot their template like a Hellhound. Realistically, some lummox of a model with no speed bonuses, and no AV to keep it alive, by itself, with a heavy flamer... nobody could have thought that was a reasonable choice.

Logarithm Udgaur
19-08-2010, 16:22
They are there because Tyranid player have been complaining about not having a flamer template weapon in the army for at least 2 editions. Now they complain about having one.

ReveredChaplainDrake
19-08-2010, 16:41
Pyrovores were included in the Tyranid codex with the thinking that Planetstrike was going to be more popular than it actually turned out to be. Sure, in regular games, Pyrovores are garbage, but in Planetstrike, they're brutal at flushing out bunkers. Pyrovores exist for the sole purpose of GW being able to say that Tyranids have a unit that makes them not totally screwed when attacking in Planetstrike games. (Oddly, the thought of Adrenal Trygons charging into those immobile AV14 bunkers on the same turn they Deep Strike never seemed to occur to them... :eyebrows:)

ghoulio
19-08-2010, 17:41
They're not that bad, they just don't compare favourably with the other elites. It's a big difference many overlook.

You are right, they aren't bad...they are AWFUL, maybe to the point of being one of the single worst units in any codex in the game (when taking points into consideration). To put it into perspective you can get 3 Burna Boyz which have better stats, 3 templates and 3 wounds for the exact same price. Another thing that makes no sense is it is on the same base (60mm) as a Hive Tyrant or a Carnifex, but it is only T4, 2W and a 4+ save.

The worst part for me is I love the Pyrovore model and I was very stoked to get them to put in my army...then I read the rules and just gave up any notion of getting them (especially when you consider they are $40 each here in canada).

Things that could of made it worth it:

1 - Kept everything the same but made them 20-25pts per model and the ability to take 5 in a brood.
2 - Make them the Elites MC. Give them similar stats to a harpy (like WS 4, Str 5, T 5, 3 Wounds, 3 attacks, 4+ save, monstrous creature, then the ability to blow up whenever they die, not just on an instant kill, and buff their points a bit, still taken in units of 3) then you might have a cool option.
3 - Give them the Tyrannofex's flamer and keep them the same cost.
4 - Make the flamer AP 3. I know the idea of Nids having a gun with an AP lower then 5 is a tough one for the designer to fathom...but it IS an option.

Any one of those 4 things might of made it worth it, but instead the designer decided to not even think about the unit, just made it a biovore with a heavy flamer and call it a day...great.

Souleater
19-08-2010, 18:31
They are there because Tyranid player have been complaining about not having a flamer template weapon in the army for at least 2 editions. Now they complain about having one.

No, I think we're complaining that the Pyrovore has stupidly bad rules.

@Ghoulio: what you've described in your second option was what I assumed they were going to be given the size of the model. Then I read the rules.

Raven1
19-08-2010, 18:36
It could be worse, you could have chaos spawn.

sliganian
19-08-2010, 18:43
It could be worse, you could have chaos spawn.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Winnah! We have a Winnah! :D

In contrast, what's really strange is that I recently started WarMachine (Khador) where there does not seem to be any truly 'useless' units. It is quite a headshift.

TheShadowCow
19-08-2010, 20:29
As ReveredChaplainDrake correctly points out, Pyrovores are *not* useless - they are brutal in Planetstrike games, especially against lighter infantry. It just happens thhat Planetstrike isn't that popular, so the Pyrovore's niche is seldom seen.

daboarder
19-08-2010, 23:00
It could be worse, you could have chaos spawn.

atleast spawn dont blow up and kill your own stuff.

AFnord
19-08-2010, 23:08
atleast spawn dont blow up and kill your own stuff.
Instead they don't kill much of anything. Poor spawn :( Pyrovores does at least have the potential of blowing up and killing lots of low I enemies in close combat (which basically translates to: Orks). Fixing pyrovores should not be too hard. Give them deep strike (they tunnel, or something. Being forced to spore them down adds too many points to an already rather lackluster unit) and a slight point decrease and they should be viable. Or make them more durable.

Bestaltan
19-08-2010, 23:43
The pyrovore could have gone from suck to fairly useful with one rule.......Make it fire like a hellhound. Problem solved.

But that would have been to easy

Flying Toaster
20-08-2010, 00:04
I would like to see an epic fight between a Chaos spawn and a Pyrovore.


That would be a clash of the titans right there!

sliganian
20-08-2010, 01:40
I would like to see an epic fight between a Chaos spawn and a Pyrovore.


That would be a clash of the titans right there!

I've often been amused with the idea of trying to do a tournament with a "Bring the Crap!" lists. Everyone with 1,500 points of the most sub-optimal choices from their codexes (codecii? codexen?). I think it would take a lot of up-front planning on the part of the organizers to have pre-set templates of "You can only take the following..." kind of set-up.

Could be amusing though.

Dio´Ra
20-08-2010, 01:42
I've often been amused with the idea of trying to do a tournament with a "Bring the Crap!" lists. Everyone with 1,500 points of the most sub-optimal choices from their codexes (codecii? codexen?). I think it would take a lot of up-front planning on the part of the organizers to have pre-set templates of "You can only take the following..." kind of set-up.

Could be amusing though.

May I ask what would you consider as a crap choice in any Space marine codex, sure you can take the overpriced units, but they hurt! Unlike actual crap units like Pyrovores, Swooping hawks, repentia etc.

havoc626
20-08-2010, 09:30
About the only army/armies that I can think of them being more use than some of the other elite choices are against pure hoard with no things with AV/only a few light vehicles. (armies like IG, Orks, Nids). The only problem with this is that those armies all have common and necessary choices to make them be effective.

IG have so many tanks coming out their ears it's not funny and Nids always have a few MCs for that bit of extra armour and fire power and in both those cases it is easy to be able to have a mostly hoard army with both of those things in it as well. This ends up making Orks about the only truly viable option and even then they are able to have several things that either has a decent save or an AV, and these things aren't too expensive, so you can have them in a hoard army.

I was also trying to get them into an all comers list, but I found that, after taking a squad of Hive Guard and Zoanthropes, it was a lot better to take another one of those squads (depending on whether I would need more support in).

I agree with the point that they are that bad, but they are something that isn't needed for the Nids in standard games. Nids don't tend to have a lot of trouble against large groups of light infantry (we actually have too much anti-infantry choices if you ask me), so when you can either have a squad that is great against light tanks and taking out enemy characters (Hive Guard) or take a squad with the best anti-tank weapon in the game thus far, which is also useful against heavy infantry (Zoanthropes), the choice is plain.

We just didn't need another anti-infantry unit that wasn't capable of something else (eg, if they were of MC status, that would make them at least a last resort for a troublesome tank)