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View Full Version : brettonia vs. lizardmen mage miscast death



zork rumpscratcha
18-08-2010, 16:03
First time playing Lizardmen. First time playing 8th. First time playing in a Games Workshop. So I got to try out some new stuff.

1500pt escalation campaign so I ran
slann with 2 disciplines: regenerate and extra power dice
he got regrowth, dwellers from below, crown of thorns, and the tree curse?
salamander with extra handler
stegadon
cold one knights with banner and scar leader
15 saurus spearmen with full command
Horde of 28 skinks and 3 krox
10 skink skirmishers

I wanted to try out all the new stuff for 8th and also get a feel for various aspects of the lizardmen army. I def. wanted to use a slann in order to take advantage of the super new battle magic. I also purposely didn't put him in a unit because I didn't want him to blow that unit up, which is what happens on a good day when you miscast.

I also wanted a salamander to try out the new template niceness where you don't have to roll for partial coverage.

AND I def. wanted to try out a horde and the only thing I have enough models for in this army is a skrox unit. The only thing is, skrox aren't quite as nice as they used to be, now everybody can attack from 2 ranks and then some.
so here it is.

He ran
Lord who rerolls 'to hit' and 'to wound'
Lady with something to help her power dice, regrowth and dwellers from below
paladin
15 knights errant
15 knights of the realm
5 questing knights
and large herd of peasant archers behind fortifiactions

I've attached a picture of the deployment.

I let him go first, he moved up slightly with his questing knights, shot unsuccessfully at the cold ones with the archers, and inched up with the other knight blocks. He decided not to cast dwellers. I think he didnt want to blow up first turn.

I moved the skink horde over the hedge. I moved the spearmen unit up knowing I was going to take a charge next turn. I put the stegadon slightly behind and to the right of the spears. I put the slann behind and slightly to the left of the spears. The cold one knights inched up, egged on by the archers volley. I moved the skinks and salamander out to shoot. I fluffed with my great bow, killed two knights of the realm with the sally and then burned through half of the errantry knights with dwellers from below. I even forgot about my extra power dice, I was swimming in power dice. I was much more worried about rolling too many.

Then it was Brettonia turn two. He charged my saurus with both knights errant and knights of the realm. He killed 10 in the charge and may have answered back by killing one. He rolled right on through into contact with my slann and stegadon. He also charged his questing knights into my cold ones, killed two or three, and then ran them down like little amphibians.

Then on my turn I was able to wheel and charge my skrox horde into the side of his knights of the realm. And I charged my salamander into the errantry knights. I readied the skirmishers to rear charge the errant knights next turn. In combat he attacks my stegadon with his lord and kills it, but wait! He forgot his fear check. He failed! So now he's rolling to hit with weapon skill 1! This time he does 2 wounds but doesn't kill it outright. Phew! Then the skinks and krox attack and do some serious damage to the knights. Then the stegadon gets to stomp attack. Woohoo! rolled a 1. well, it was a nice idea. So I won combat, he ran away. But I rolled enough to get in combat with the horde right into his errantry knights in the flank. AND since we haven't fought this combat yet, the horde gets to fight again. WOW.
So slann, sally, skrox horde vs. errantry knights. He tries to kill the slann, but I have regenerate and a ward save and life magic so I'm regaining wounds. I didn't realize until after that you either take a ward save or a regen roll. This kind of lames out that discipline of the ancients for slann. anyway, we win but he holds.
Turn three, he moves the questing knights back around to get into the action. He rallies with his lord, lady, and 4 questing knights. Then he miscasts regrowth with the lady. UBer fail on the miscast chart and she's warped into chaos along with two more knights. whoops. Then his errantry knights fail their fear test and are beaten and smushed by the surrounding units on all sides.
Turn three, my side. I try to do regrowth before doing dwellers. I should have just done dwellers but anyway, my slann gets sucked into the warp too because I miscast. Great, my slann is gone but I got 2 skinks back. Not a worthwhile gamble. Frog was alone so he didn't take anyone with him in his shame. I shoot my sally and steggie into his questing knights and OUCH, impale three, burn one. Now he's left with 5 knights and a unit of archers who've come out from behind their fortifications because he's got barely anything else left.
I had to go at this point. He very graciously conceded.

What should I learn from this battle?

Malorian
18-08-2010, 16:28
What should I learn from this battle?

Don't let brets go first. You're better of getting first turn to get into position and get some spells off.

Take soul stone or cupped hands.

Break up your report. If you have a block of text longer than the width of 3 fingers with no spaces to break it up then it makes it difficult to read.


Thanks for the report and looking forward to the next one :)

zork rumpscratcha
18-08-2010, 16:39
[Don't let brets go first.]

good call, I probably could have got even more use out of 'dwellers below' because I had the power dice to send it that far.

yeah, I should def. take soul of stone esp. since the ward save and regen don't stack or was I misled?

Zaszz
18-08-2010, 18:31
You are correct, you can only use either a ward save or a regeneration save against a wound, not both.

Dumbledore
26-08-2010, 19:37
Change your slann set-up.

Slann, BSB, extra power dice, knows every spell (possibly also the cheap standard of discipline for +1Ld). This comes to under 25%. Cupped hands or feedback scroll + bane head would be nice, but are too expensive at 1500 points.

Life is the way to go! With Life you want to know all of the spells so that you can cast throne of vines, meaning that you hardly ever miscast and your other spells are more powerful. Maybe also try taking some temple guard instead of your cold one knights and scar veteran, since they are awesome with a lore of life slann.

freddieyu
27-08-2010, 03:07
Magic is really funky....yesterday my lore of beasts mage miscast twice (despite me rolling 3-4 power dice only!), and he ended up killing more than half of his unit, while the entire game all he did was kill 4 orcs....

My opponent had also 2 miscasts, and ended up killing himself, but as he was by his lonesome, and the spell cast was WAAAGGHHH with his units close to my lines...he got the better end of the magical duel I think

Seabo
27-08-2010, 04:15
@Freddieyu
He was using the WAAGH miscast table right? I remember when that was comsidered nasty and now its downright tame compared to the new one :p
@Zork
Nice report :)
I still roll at least 4 dice on spells. Why not?
Booms are fun :D

freddieyu
27-08-2010, 04:37
@Freddieyu
He was using the WAAGH miscast table right? I remember when that was comsidered nasty and now its downright tame compared to the new one :p
@Zork
Nice report :)
I still roll at least 4 dice on spells. Why not?
Booms are fun :D

Correct..waagh miscast table....

zork rumpscratcha
07-10-2010, 14:09
hmmn, yeah I guess I was shy about taking temple guard because of the deadliness of miscasts but with lore of life and cupped hands or soul of stone I guess it's very doable. Do you ever kit your temple guard champion with a magic item?

freddieyu
07-10-2010, 15:20
hmmn, yeah I guess I was shy about taking temple guard because of the deadliness of miscasts but with lore of life and cupped hands or soul of stone I guess it's very doable. Do you ever kit your temple guard champion with a magic item?

these days I don't even take champions..they were more valuable in earlier editions without the step up rule. I use the points values to get more warm bodies instead..

Kudzu
07-10-2010, 16:36
these days I don't even take champions..they were more valuable in earlier editions without the step up rule. I use the points values to get more warm bodies instead..

Always take a TG champion--- with the changes to how challenges work your Slann can be challenged even in the second rank. If I give the champ anything it's the Blood Statuette of Spite for Teclis/mage killing.

Other notes:

Lizzies don't do hordes well. Our Saurus/Skrox are too expensive and out Skinks are too fragile.

Slann-- best set up is Rumination (extra PD), Mystery (knows whole lore), BSB, Standard of Dicipline (LD 10 rerollable), at higher levels add cupped hands and becalming cogitation (enemy wizard discards 6's) You really want a Temple Guard unit to stick him in, either 16 or 20 strong.

Skrox-- run in 22+2 with at least a standard and musician.
Saurus-- try them in block of 24 or 29, in 8th it's all about having ranks.
Ancient stegs are much better than regular stegs.
CoC are iffy at best. Drop them for Temple Guard.

Malorian
07-10-2010, 18:28
Lizzies don't do hordes well. Our Saurus/Skrox are too expensive and out Skinks are too fragile.

Bigger is better, and everything is better in a horde if for nothing else that the fact the are a huge point denial.

My horde of 40 saurus/50 spear saurus have been doing very well for example.

Kudzu
07-10-2010, 19:15
Bigger is better, and everything is better in a horde if for nothing else that the fact the are a huge point denial.

My horde of 40 saurus/50 spear saurus have been doing very well for example.

Run them 6-7 wide and 8-7 deep instead-- they'll last forever and break anything in their path. You will always get full attacks no matter what formation the enemy uses as well.

Hording out 25mm models you end up wasting all sorts of attacks on the flanks while not having the ranks to keep/break steadfast on deep units.

Malorian
07-10-2010, 19:49
The math has already been proven.

Take any unit of 40 set up for ranks, and another set up in horde, and the horde will win and eventually break the ranked unit in every case.

Going for ranks is a defensive tactic and should be saved for defensive units that depend on support (night goblins), if you are going offensive then horde is the only way to go.

The only way I would run them like you say is in special blitzing situations where I need to punch through a unit NOW and this had to achieve it in oe round of combat, or if terrain kept me from going horde.

Kudzu
07-10-2010, 20:22
The math has already been proven.

Take any unit of 40 set up for ranks, and another set up in horde, and the horde will win and eventually break the ranked unit in every case.

Going for ranks is a defensive tactic and should be saved for defensive units that depend on support (night goblins), if you are going offensive then horde is the only way to go.

The only way I would run them like you say is in special blitzing situations where I need to punch through a unit NOW and this had to achieve it in oe round of combat, or if terrain kept me from going horde.

Which is why I set mine up in 30 in a 6x5 and use the leftover points for a flanking unit or a character.

zork rumpscratcha
08-10-2010, 14:10
Either way, neither of you are talking about running Temple Guard in horde. How many hordes can one run before clogging up the table? Especially, if you're doing the rules for terrain placement.

Malorian
08-10-2010, 14:30
On average there are 7.5 pieces of terrain.

If you are running hordes and are worried terrain might get in the way you can lpace your terrain on the edges to out of the way.

Terrains biggest threat to large units is rivers... those bastards cover a lot of area and can ruin your day fast...

Taahuu
09-10-2010, 14:24
Well i run my temple guard in a unit of 26 <--- (Slann here), and i run 2x29 saurus spearmen add some cheep scar vets into the 2 units of saurus spearmen i run the spears 5x6 and the temple guard 6x5 this has worked almost every time.

i dont like taking hordes of saurus simply because there are to many spells (like dwellers below) that kill big units fast, and saurus are to many points to die like that.
Coc are just not wirth it these days, to many points for what they do.

anyway i liked the batrep good work

zork rumpscratcha
09-10-2010, 16:15
Thanks Taahuu. That sounds about right. Though I'd need some more models to configure it that way.
So you still like spear-saurus. I thought they were lamed a little bit by only getting one supporting attack. But I can't say the parry ward save has helped me all that much.
I did kit my old saurus out so that I could easily switch between toothpick spears and no toothpick spears. The drill hole is hid behind their shield. Ghetto, I know. But GW gets plenty of money out of me as it is.

Taahuu
10-10-2010, 03:49
Well, i go spear saurus because there is no need for the parry ward save (well i dont think there is need for it) with a Lore of life slann (best way to run the slann these days). Just chuck throne of vines up, then cast Flesh to stone on the unit taking the most damage. T8 saurus are going to stick around for ages. if your other big unit of saurus are taking many deaths then just use Regrowth on it.

but thats just how i run my saurus, not saying it the right way or the only way but its how i do it and it seems to work just fine.

Just another thing when you start getting up into the 2000+ games a Skink priest is a good idea. I run a lvl2 with Plaque of tepok, and some other stuff he knows 3 spells from lore of heavens and that just helps out with the slann not haveing much 'Boom' power being as he is lore of life.
i hope this helps man, good luck