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English 2000
05-03-2006, 05:59
Hey,

I'm hoping to get a game in soon against a guy that plays Tzeentch Daemons from the Hordes of Chaos book.

He generally takes the following in a 2k army:

2 units of 20-24 horrors
12-16 tzeentch chosen chaos warriors w/ full command
4-5 screamers
Lord of Change
Hero - I think it's a champion w/ mark of tzeentch

I will have 2k of Storm of Chaos Slaanesh with the following:

Keeper of Secrets
Herald, bsb, dispell gift, mark of slaanesh, rapturous standard
11 deamonettes, champion, musician
12 deamonettes, full command
5 deamonettes on steeds
5 deamonettes on steeds
3 Pleasure seekers
2 chariots

Any suggestions on tactics to defeat the Tzeentch army?

fubukii
05-03-2006, 07:46
Eh SOC lists are serverly overpowered if you lose you just got outplayed.


But my suggestion would be just get in combat he wont get a ward save vs your attacks as they magical and you have a huge advantage.

English 2000
05-03-2006, 16:14
Thanks for your worthless response there fubikii.

If I wanted a discussion about why people say SoC Daemons are over powered I would have started a thread asking for people's opinion on that topic.

Getting into hand to hand with Tzeentch daemons....geeee....why didn't I think of that? (note the sarcasm there)

Anyone got anything constructive to add?

scatterlaser
06-03-2006, 00:48
Even 5 Mounted Daemonettes charging a block of standard-less HoC Horrors in the front should win combat with average rolling - hit them in the flank or rear and you'd do bad things to them. The chariots should do pretty well, either supporting other units or if they double-team something themselves. Your Keeper of Secrets can probably outfight anything but the Chosen in the Tzeentch army one-on-one. If you can get it into combat with the Lord of Change and keep anything else from moving in to help (hard since it flies, but you never know) you should take it apart in short order.

The main thing you'd want to watch out for would be magic. The Tzeentch army could throw three 3-dice spells a turn at you without too many worries, plus whatever bound stuff the Horrors cast (and if there are 20-ish per unit that might be hard to stop). Red Fire, Blue Fire and Fires of Tzeentch are probably the main worries - they'd shred Mounted Daemonetes pretty fast, and Pleasureseekers/chariots wouldn't like them that much either. Coruscation of Energy (the one that does a S3 hit per model) would be unpleasant for any Daemonettes fighting against horrors, though Pleasureseekers and chariots would shrug it off.

You probably want to get into HtH pretty quickly - stay at range and everything but the Keeper of Secrets will suffer against the Tzeentch magic. The two chariots and the Keeper should pretty much be able to erase any unit they charge together (watch out for the Exhalted's near-obligatory great weapon though), and since there isn't much that can divert them you should hopefully be able to get stuck in on turn 2. The rest of your daemons are probably safest in combat with the Horrors, where they can't be hit with most magic and can cause obscene amounts of casualties. If you get the chance to safely clobber the Lord of Change with your Keeper of Secrets I'd take it, but otherwise I'd try to smash the infantry first and deal with it later.

Just my thoughts, anyway.

der_lex
06-03-2006, 00:53
Does he need to be more clear than that? Your opponent's army is slow, contains two units that are worthless in hand to hand (Horrors), contains very few other units (chosen warriors and 40 horrors, talk about point sinks) and has very little magic for a Tzeentch list. Since you're playing a very fast list, the only thing you need to do is outmaneuver him and start wailing on him in HtH by turn two...

Also, insulting a person who just gave you advice seems rather improper, even if you think the advice is useless.
Never look a gift horse in the mouth, since a proper Chaos steed will rip your hands and face off while you're doing so... :D

fubukii
06-03-2006, 01:23
Well lets looks at the pros and cons,

You get ward saves he doesnt.
Your cav Charge 20 inches (faster then his)

Just make it so you get a few flanks here and there with your superior speed and his troops will crumlbe insanely fast. His daemons cant hold their own vs you, so if possible to single them out unit vs unit do so. SHould be a simple game if you play right.

all in all i just said my last post but with a extra paragraph Good luck in the game sir :)

Biel496
06-03-2006, 01:49
i agree with fubu a soc demon army should just ravage a hoc demon army. other fact that he has more magic then you, you out class him every where else. alo tzeentch magic wile good isnt OMG SO STRONG where he would trounce you with it alone. just dont go to the battle brain dead and you should do fine

Son of Monkey
06-03-2006, 01:57
Yea i agree to its very easy to win with a SoC army so you should have little difulculty wining.

Good luck.

Krootman
06-03-2006, 02:04
Soc list are not overpowered....they are just the lists that beginners use so they can win alot of fant games and then be like hey this is fun lets buy another army and then once they realize they can only win with soc armies BAM its to late and they are stuck with a normal army they cant win with, cause they are so used to soc armies :)

English 2000
06-03-2006, 02:13
Game was played. Game was won. he split his horrors into 4 units of 10 which actually made things easier for me.

His magic wasn't that scary and I was able to weather the storm pretty well.
It's a fun list to play with once in a while but it won't become my main list. I'll stick with VC for now until my Brets (with lots of infantry) are painted.

From the gazillion games I've played against Tzeentch I definately think their lore is under powered. Sure they can throw an obscene number of spells but they are so unreliable that their lore isn't dominating enough for an army so reliant on magic.

I think eventually I'm going to drop the keeper of secrets to a prince, drop a chariot and add another units of daemonettes. Two infantry blocks isn't enough for my tastes.

GREEN IS DA BEST
06-03-2006, 02:14
Ok this is a easy one. All of the SoC deamons are much better then the other deamons (well at least most). You are a much faster army then he is. His deamons suck in comparison to yours when it comes to combat. The only thing you have to look out for is his magic which will still not be much of a problem. So in all honesty you shouldnt lose and if you do you suck lol.

Good luck.

English 2000
06-03-2006, 02:21
Soc list are not overpowered....they are just the lists that beginners use so they can win alot of fant games and then be like hey this is fun lets buy another army and then once they realize they can only win with soc armies BAM its to late and they are stuck with a normal army they cant win with, cause they are so used to soc armies :)

I have found that all Daemon lists appeal to painters/converters rather than guys like me who prefer to play. My experience is that beginners tend to shy away from armies that require a lot of conversion work.

When I look at my SoC Slaanesh army and compare it to VC I think I could trounce it most of the time with VC. Other than the greater daemon I don't think there is much that my undead couldn't handle. The army will also struggle against anything that has lots of shooting or lots of heavily armoured troops.

Also appologies to Fubukii if I was overly rude. Seemed like you were being insulting and it's my nature to insult people back. But if that wasn't your original intention then I'm just an ass and I'm sorry.

Krootman
06-03-2006, 02:37
Also appologies to Fubukii if I was overly rude. Seemed like you were being insulting and it's my nature to insult people back. But if that wasn't your original intention then I'm just an ass and I'm sorry. Now thats not very mature is it....

But anyways I think beginners tend to play whats good and just do a half-*** job converting it just to play. Most of the power gamers I see cant paint for *** from what I have seen.