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RTJ
19-08-2010, 12:05
I've been reading some background on the Dark Angels, and Deathwing. Now Dark Angels were my first ever 40k army in about '96. Not long after I gave up on GW games and concentrated on girls and canoeing.

However, I've recently thought it would be nice ot paint some Dark Angels and that turned my thinking to the Deathwing. Some sources I've read say they are all Terminators, but also that members of the inner circel are members - Librarians, Chaplains, Grand Master, Company Captains.

Obviously though these are hardly ever painted in Deathwing colours/heraldry.

What I want to know is who is a member of the Deathwing? Are Vet Sgts? Anyone with the old school "terminator honours"?

Could someone help me out?

narrativium
19-08-2010, 12:19
Angels of Darkness pretty much states that the Deathwing are all the Dark Angels who know the Fallen exist. As such, while there's still a matter of martial skill involved, it's also a level of trust which determines who gets to wear the white. Anyone with Terminator Honours is probably in the Deathwing; veteran sergeants might just be experienced 3rd Company guys who haven't reached that level yet.

There was a pic in an old White Dwarf somewhere I think, where someone had inverted the colours for Azrael, Asmodai and co., so they were in bone-white power armour and green/blue/whatever robes to indicate their station. Looked quite cool.

Lord Damocles
19-08-2010, 12:19
The Deathwing is just the 1st Company, so it would be the Company Master, Apothecary, Company Standard Bearer, Terminators, attached Dreadnoughts, and attached Land Raider crews.

RTJ
19-08-2010, 12:41
Two different answers already!

gitburna
19-08-2010, 14:00
both answers are true - my understanding is that they'd be transferred out of the battle/reserve companies once initiated.

massey
19-08-2010, 14:38
"Deathwing" seems to be an informal term that has different uses.

From an outsider's perspective, it appears to refer to the 1st company of the Dark Angels Chapter. This also fits with the 2nd company being the Ravenwing. So that's probably the generally accepted definition in the Imperium. It is possible that some people know that the term also applies to various members of their HQ. Once a Deathwing, always a Deathwing sort of thing.

People with more knowledge (generally, those actually in the Deathwing), know that it refers to those who have been entrusted with the secrets of the chapter. That just also happens to include everybody who is in the 1st company.

It is not clear if veteran sergeants in other companies are members of the Deathwing or not. You could make an argument that you'd want them to be members, that way you could send special orders to the sergeant, and have him put his squad "in position", even if they didn't know why they were there. On the other hand, that dramatically increases the number of people who know the secret.

geeksquared
19-08-2010, 14:56
There was an Inferno story once where an Interrogator Chaplain and a squad of ordinary marines encountered one of the fallen and in order to capture him alive the Chaplain had to tell the others about the fallen and that knowledge was enough to induct them into the Deathwing. It later turned out that the units Apothacary was already an inner circle member with instructions to keep his status quiet.

This and other fluff from sources like white dwarf etc suggests that martial prowess is secondary to knowledge of the fallen. If you know, your in. Even if you found out by accident or had to be told as an emergency measure. Presumably the standard way in is to either prove yourself like any other marine chapter selecting a new member of the 1st or be selected for a rank or position where you might encounter this information on your own or need to be told on the fly. Captains, Chaplains, higher ranked Librarians etc.

There are also hints that some Dark Angels have found out the secret and been deemed not capable of bearing the knowledge and executed rather that being raised to the Deathwing. This is probably rare though, given the value of an individual marine and the lengths the chapters go to to fortify their minds with hypnotherapy and indoctrination. I'd guess that execution would be reserved for scouts or marines very recently raised from the scout company.

gitburna
19-08-2010, 15:01
There was an Inferno story once where an Interrogator Chaplain and a squad of ordinary marines encountered one of the fallen and in order to capture him alive the Chaplain had to tell the others about the fallen and that knowledge was enough to induct them into the Deathwing. It later turned out that the units Apothacary was already an inner circle member with instructions to keep his status quiet.


Sounds a bit like an excerpt from Angels of Darkness.

Wintermute
19-08-2010, 17:38
RTJ you may find the answer to your question in the current Codex:Dark Angels which does explain the difference between the Inner Circle and the Deathwing, something which had not been done very well in the previous Codices.

TheDarkDaff
20-08-2010, 02:46
RTJ you may find the answer to your question in the current Codex:Dark Angels which does explain the difference between the Inner Circle and the Deathwing, something which had not been done very well in the previous Codices.

To be fair though most of the books use the Deathwing to refer to 2 seperate entities i.e. Those that know of the Fallen and the 1st Company (who also know of the Fallen). In fact the Deathwing is commonly refered to as the outmost rank of the inner circles.

AFAIK the Techmarines are the only members of the Dark Angels who can't become Deathwing (or are exceedly rare) due to their split loyalty between Chapter and the Mechanicus where they are trained. I can imagine that the Master of the Forge is most probably a Deathwing member as are all company captains. You even get Veteran Sergeant's that are Deathwing being placed in company and scout squads to keep a closer eye on potentual future Deathwing members.

Askil the Undecided
20-08-2010, 04:48
To be fair though most of the books use the Deathwing to refer to 2 seperate entities i.e. Those that know of the Fallen and the 1st Company (who also know of the Fallen). In fact the Deathwing is commonly refered to as the outmost rank of the inner circles.

AFAIK the Techmarines are the only members of the Dark Angels who can't become Deathwing (or are exceedly rare) due to their split loyalty between Chapter and the Mechanicum where they are trained. I can imagine that the Master of the Forge is most probably a Deathwing member as are all company captains. You even get Veteran Sergeant's that are Deathwing being placed in company and scout squads to keep a closer eye on potentual future Deathwing members.

MECHANICUS, MECHANICUS!! For god's sake it's called the MECHANICUS. The MECHANICUM was destroyed during/after the Horus Heresy and the loyalist surviviors formed the ADEPTUS MECHANICUS following Gulliman's creation of the Adeptus becoming part of the Imperium rather than an allied partner.

Stop saying MECHANICUM when it doesn't apply.

starlight
20-08-2010, 05:30
Steady now... :eyebrows:



OT: Follow the links (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Deathwing).

RTJ
20-08-2010, 11:37
Thanks for your input guys. From a modelling/painting point of view, would it be "acceptable" in your opinion to paint some veteran sergeants with elements of Deathwing heraldry/iconography, or should that be reserved for the 1st Company only?

Wintermute
20-08-2010, 13:17
TI can imagine that the Master of the Forge is most probably a Deathwing member as are all company captains. You even get Veteran Sergeant's that are Deathwing being placed in company and scout squads to keep a closer eye on potentual future Deathwing members.

The Master of the Forge is a member of the Inner Circle. This is stated in the current DA Codex ;)


Thanks for your input guys. From a modelling/painting point of view, would it be "acceptable" in your opinion to paint some veteran sergeants with elements of Deathwing heraldry/iconography, or should that be reserved for the 1st Company only?

They are your minis and you can paint them how you want ;)

BTW GW has produced DA sergeant models in the past which clearly had Deathwing icons on them ie the broken Lion Sword.

Lupe
20-08-2010, 18:28
Thanks for your input guys. From a modelling/painting point of view, would it be "acceptable" in your opinion to paint some veteran sergeants with elements of Deathwing heraldry/iconography, or should that be reserved for the 1st Company only?

Well, it would be acceptable, that's for sure.

Even if it's only reserved for the 1st Company, it would make sense that it too includes veteran sergeants. Even if most of the time you can't really tell, since they're wearing Terminator armour, they might use standard power armor at times for various reason, such as the need for mobility, or because Terminator armour is being reconsecrated at the time, or whatever (to justify you fielding anything other than termies in a Deathwing army).

RTJ
25-08-2010, 12:31
Thanks for all your comments guys, I'm starting to formulate an interesting modelling/painting idea surrounding this.....