PDA

View Full Version : Hellcannon Tactics (Charge!)



vincengetorix
05-03-2006, 10:35
I just tried out the hellcannon and wow am I impressed. Contrary to popular usage I just ran it up the board and got into HtH, where the HC proceeded to mightily impress by ichoring and crushing everything in its path. I was wondering if anyone else has any experience using the HC like this, and if so, how did it do, what marks did you give it ect ect.

I ran the HC (with the spellbreaker gift) in a Khornate list that's heavy on knights, dogs, and minotaurs. The HC here worked as a combo fire magnet/anchor for the rest of my fast hitty stuff (I suppose that there may even be a game sometimes where I actually fire the main gun at something, but mostly I'm impressed by the ichor). I'm sure there are lots of ways to work the HC into a list, so who has any ideas?

Cheers, V

der_lex
05-03-2006, 10:59
I use it in just about any list, and put it on either extreme flank. There it will just pelt the enemy from afar, like any regular war machine would do. Works especially well in my Tzeentch list.

Didn't it take you ages to get the thing to the front lines, since it's restricted to the 3 inch Chaos Dwarf movement? Since the thing can't shoot after moving, it seems to me like you're wastign a lot of turns there for such an expensive unit.

Also, I'm afraid that any opponent who sees the thing coming at him/her will just shoot the dwarves, leaving you with a loose cannon on your hands (hur hur).

I'm not saying that it can't work, I'm just wondering how you made it work.

PelsBoble
05-03-2006, 12:30
Well i too wonder how it keep up with the rest of your fast army. Since it cant march it goingto need alot of turns to charge something. Especially since no enemy will stand in its path volutaranly.

vincengetorix
05-03-2006, 13:05
The HC isn't war machine, and actually uses the dwarves movement and thus marches 6" a turn (afaik). That, combined with the 2d6 charge actually gets it into combat in a reasonable amount of time. This leaves it generally a turn or two behind the rest of my force. While it's behind though it makes it suicidal for the opponent to move any troops behind my lines to march block ect.

As for the tactics of avoidance, because the rest of my list is so fast the opponent has a difficult time getting out of the way (nowhere to go). Additionally, because I have 13 units in my list I will almost always get to place the HC last and in a good position. I'll double check the HC as warmachine thing but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Cheers, V

PelsBoble
05-03-2006, 13:41
Well the storm of chaos FAQ classifies the hellcannon as a war machine. So i would think they cannot move more than 3 inches per turn unless rampage.

vincengetorix
05-03-2006, 14:09
If you read the entry in SoC you'll find that this isn't exactly so. The HC is a creature with a full stat line which uses the Mv of the dwarf crew when it isn't rampaging. It's a got some things in common with normal warmachines but that doesn't neccessarily mean that everything is the same> Like I said though, i'll re-read the actual entry when I'm not at work (like I am now). if anyone else wants to look this up in the mean time that'd be cool. remember - the HC , unlike other WM, is capable of moving itself (for whatever that's worth).

Cheers, V

MarcoPollo
05-03-2006, 23:01
Page 16 SoC:

"Mixed Unit: The Hellcannon is treated as a war machine with the exceptions below. The three crew form a unit with the Hellcannon. The unit has a 360 arc of sight. The chaos Dwarfs act as war machine crew in combat but will line up on either side of the HC instead of in front of it.

When moving normally, the unit uses the Chaos Dwarfs Movement Rate. When rampaging, the whole unit moves 2d6"

I wonder what the interpretation of Moving "normally" means. There is no movement value on the HC's stat-lne. And the Darfs movement is of course 3.

I think that the interpretation of the above paragraph would limit the movement of the HC to 3 as it is still a war machine moving normally (except for a charge of 2d6). I would like it to be different as I just bought one and finished painting it.

der_lex
06-03-2006, 00:43
That's what I thought. Normal movement is non-rampaging movement, so as far as non-compulsory movement is concerned, the HC is treated as a war machine, so it moves only 3 inches per turn.

Don't worry too much about it though...once you start to get good at guessing shot ranges, it's more than worth it to take one along. Just put it on an extreme flank so it doesn't harass the rest of your army if it rampages (few units are brave enough to charge the HC anyway, so you can leave it on its own).

Lord Anathir
06-03-2006, 02:10
last time i played against a hellcannon, my rbt shot the crew so if charged the nearby great eagle who redirected it into his own chosen knights. :D

vincengetorix
06-03-2006, 10:22
MarcoPollo wrote:

I wonder what the interpretation of Moving "normally" means. There is no movement value on the HC's stat-lne. And the Darfs movement is of course 3.


This was my exact question after rereading the unit entry. As I recall mixed uints are treated differently than war machine + crew for movement (although after an extended search I still cannot find the rules for mixed units - I think they're in the DE book, which I don't own). I thought it was a case, in mixed units, that the unit moves at the speed of the slowest member. This would be difficult with the "-" movement value listed for the HC.

I suppose there are two ways to go here. First, you could read the 2d6 rampage as the 'exception' part of "with the following exceptions treat as a warmachine". So the status of the non-march dwarf move of 3" is unchanged.

Or you could certainly argue that the description as a mixed unit, rather than warmachine and crew, means that movement in general is an exception to the warmachine rules - a situation where, as a mixed unit, you have two movement values: the dwarf's normal (read:can march) move of 3" and the HC rampage of 2d6. If the dwarf's 'normal' move wasn't different than that of normal WM crew then there would be no need to mention it at all in the HC entry because WM movement is fully covered in the main book - if this was the case the entry might have read "moves as a warmachine except when it rampages" or something like that.

Perhaps the simplest way to make this second argument is the following:

The HC entry states that it is "treated as a warmachine with the following exceptions"
exception 1 - it uses the dwarves 'normal' movement.
unless
exception 2 - it uses the rampage rules

There isn't any argument that a dwarfs normal movment is move 3" march 6", and there also isn't any argument that 'mixed units' are not the same as 'warmachine and crew'. I would argue that because "uses the dwarfs normal movement" is listed as an exception then it should be treated as an exception - and the only possible 'exceptions' are the ability to march and the ability to charge.

If someone has a copy of the mixed unit rules perhaps that would help.

Cheers, V

MarcoPollo
06-03-2006, 19:01
The question as I see it involves the movement of a warmachine in the Dwarf book. Can a dwarf warmachine always march just like Dwarfs? I don't play dwarfs so I don't know.

If the warmachine can march, then the HC can go 6 inches. If it can't then the Hc can only go 3 inches.

The rampaging only applies to when there is an enemy within the specific range.

The rules are very strange indeed.

der_lex
06-03-2006, 21:47
Actually, they're not. The only way I can interpret it, is that the Hellcannon moves like any other warmachine would, except for its rampage movement, which is clearly explained, and counts as compulsory movement anyway.

The rules are oddly phrased, I'll give you that...

MarcoPollo
06-03-2006, 22:02
That's very good advice Derlex. I think that keeping it on the flank helps with a refused flank tactic. I am wondering if it is wise to deploy it first off and have the opponent deal with the HC or by leaving it to the end. I suppose it depends on what kind of shooting and magic your opponent would bring.

der_lex
07-03-2006, 10:28
Actually, I always field it as late as possible. If it's the only thing on a flank early on in deployment, your opponent will either put all his nasty shooter opposite it so he can blast away the crew, and/or put all his heavy hitters on the other flank, since he knows that's where you'll be putting most of your cav and such. Predictability is the last thing you want on a battlefield, and it's already too inherent in Mortal Chaos lists. So deploying your Hellcannon first is usually a bad idea.

TiGerChaos
21-03-2006, 13:51
hahaha

I used the Hellcannon for the FIRST Time,
Against the VC Carstein
Used it against the Black coach and damn, Took 2 wounds off
But ended up Misfiring and charging my Tank of Khorne (5x4 Khorne Warrior Unit)

That was bad bad bad

ROCKY
22-03-2006, 17:40
My friend, a fellow chaos player, save a big game for us using some insane tactics and rolling tricks. He INTENTUALLY MISFIRED, yes it is true, he was hoping for a missfire and got one then he rolled a 6 (which gives one wound to every magic user on the battled field with no saves what so ever) he did this twice. killed every lvl2 wizard on the battlefield including my caddie! and his daemon prince still had 2 wounds! so we were the only side with magic support!

der_lex
22-03-2006, 22:40
Played a game against Skaven today, and my Hellcannon has not misfired for five games now, despite the fact that my pretty shot every single turn!

And not just that, but every re-roll of the scatter die I made caused the blast to fall dead center on some critical unit (Ratling Gun, Plague Monks, etc), even if the shot missed initially! (my guesses were really off today)

When it behaves, it really is one of the best units Chaos can field...


*Coos at his Hellcannon and pets it*

Krootman
22-03-2006, 23:27
last time i played against a hellcannon, my rbt shot the crew so if charged the nearby great eagle who redirected it into his own chosen knights. :D
AND THIS IS WHY I WANT 0-2 EAGLES FOR WOOD ELFS QQQQQQ

Baindread
22-03-2006, 23:31
Actually, I always field it as late as possible. If it's the only thing on a flank early on in deployment, your opponent will either put all his nasty shooter opposite it so he can blast away the crew, and/or put all his heavy hitters on the other flank, since he knows that's where you'll be putting most of your cav and such. Predictability is the last thing you want on a battlefield, and it's already too inherent in Mortal Chaos lists. So deploying your Hellcannon first is usually a bad idea.

Aren't all warmachines deployed first?

Ivan Stupidor
23-03-2006, 00:29
Aren't all warmachines deployed first?

I'm pretty sure the only restriction on war machines in a standard Pitched Battle is that they are all deployed at once. There's not a specific time to deploy them.