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Eldoriath
19-08-2010, 21:06
IMPORTANT EDIT NOTE: Revised armylist lower down.

Hi.
I'd like to point out this is basically the first time I made a fantasy list though I've been playing 40k for quite some time and had a few test-games in fantasy.

Another thing to point out is that the cold one knights is a unit I must have because of models, size can be discussed though. Same thing with hydra, it's staying since I love the model and it was these two units that attracted me to DE in the first place. So, on to the list:

Lord - Lvl 4 Sorceress 335p (goes with warriors)
Lvl 4 upgrade, Darkstar cloak, Feedback scroll, Shadow magic lore

Hero - Lvl 2 Sorceress 180p (goes with warriors)
Lvl 2 upgrade, Seal of Ghrond and Tome of furion, Dark magic lore

Hero – Master 138p (goes with corsairs)
Heavy armor, Sea dragon cloak, Enchanted shield, Biting blade, Ring of darkness

Hero – Master 140p (goes with warriors)
Heavy armor, Sea dragon cloak, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer w/ warbanner

Core - Xbowmen 110p (5 in each rank)
10 with shields

Core - Xbowmen 110p (5 in each rank)
10 with shields

Core - Warriors 295p (6 in each rank)
40 warriors with shields, Musician, Lordling, Standard bearer

Core – Corsairs 300p (5 in each rank)
25 Corsairs, Musician, Reaver, Standard bearer w/ Sea serpent standard

Special – Shades 144p (4 in each rank)
8 shades w/ great weapons

Special - Cold one knights 370p (5 in each rank)
10 knights, Musician, Standard bearer w/ Standard of hag graef, Dreadknight w/ ring of hotek

Rare - Warhydra 175p

Rare – 2 Reaper bolt throwers 200p

2497p

Thought is that the CoK goes on one flank while my warrior block is a bit away to avoid the ring. X-bow men and rest of army places where needed and shades are there to harrass/engage war-machines and suchlike.

I choosed lore of shadow magic over death magics purple sun since I felt that shadow is more all-round and can do basically the same thing even though not as powerfully. Dark magic lore is there for some nice damage dealing and also a way to counter large units using life leach that I will get about 75% of the time. Also the large blast Str check is nice.

They are placed with the spearmen since they have generally short ranged spells, and shadow lore has some nice buffs/debuffs to help them fight out a victory along having +3 combat res from standards if I have understood the rules right, or at least +2 which aint bad.

The other master is in the corsair unit which will be a bit of heavy hitters, espcially if I can get an occams on them. And the master is there to provide quite good protection from missile fire and also be able to help deal out damage and give morale if it's even needed.

I feel a bit concerned spending so much points in lords and heroes, but magic seems like a fun phase which I want to use quite much if able, and the masters are there for support rather then kiling machines. Reapers are there to cause multiple wounds on big stuff that needs taking down or just give additional fire-support.

So, what do ya think? It's enough if the list is semi-competitive but I still like to hear suggestions for improvements. And tbh I'm not all to keen about a big block of infantries of the same type, but playing imeprial guards have hardened me a bit I hope. Especially after having painted about 100-120 models that are basically the same ^^

tmarichards
19-08-2010, 21:46
Shades with great weapons are a thing of the past I'm afraid- striking last will means they'll get munched before they get to attack. Additional hand weapons are the best option now. Also, they'll be best run 7 wide most of the time to maximise the number of models that can get into combat with their full complement of attacks.

Unfortunatley your Master has too many points of magic items, you have to use the points listed in the Dark Elf book for the Enchanted Shield and the description in the rulebook. So, Enchanted Shield is still 15 pts.

I'd put musicians on the xbows- being able to Swift Reform and move 5" to shoot something that might otherwise be just too far away is very useful indeed, and only costs 5 pts per unit.

LanceSaba
20-08-2010, 04:54
Lord - Lvl 4 Sorceress 335p (goes with warriors)
Lvl 4 upgrade, Darkstar cloak, Feedback scroll, Shadow magic lore

Feedback scroll is meh, power scrolls are where it's at now.

Hero - Lvl 2 Sorceress 180p (goes with warriors)
Lvl 2 upgrade, Seal of Ghrond and Tome of furion, Dark magic lore

I would go with the lore of metal instead maybe to the pearl dagger combo just to make sure they don't go anywhere. Metal is great as it is hard for us to pop armor and the sig spell does just that

Hero Master 138p (goes with corsairs)
Heavy armor, Sea dragon cloak, Enchanted shield, Biting blade, Ring of darkness

I have a cheap hero set up with the beast whip, blood armor, and Sea dragon cloak, you can add the black dragon egg for some extra fun, the ring is better on elites in my opinion such as black guard where they have low armor and can be shot to death pretty quickly

Hero Master 140p (goes with warriors)
Heavy armor, Sea dragon cloak, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer w/ warbanner

don't take a war banner on your BSB as you can give it to the unit guys. it is 25 in our book. that way you can give him nice juicy magic items, also think about sticking him in your cold one unit as he can get a 1+ with out magic items at all and the BSB really help with stupidity

Core - Xbowmen 110p (5 in each rank)
10 with shields

think about going 20 with shields, a musician, and banner or they will get shot up and run away like little high elves

Core - Xbowmen 110p (5 in each rank)
10 with shields

Core - Warriors 295p (6 in each rank)
40 warriors with shields, Musician, Lordling, Standard bearer

good unit and like i stated before they can get the war banner, or better yet the banner of murder as you are not fielding the BG

Core Corsairs 300p (5 in each rank)
25 Corsairs, Musician, Reaver, Standard bearer w/ Sea serpent standard

the reaver is not really needed IMO and think wide like a group going 7X3 or 4 as you as you are paying a lot for those extra attacks and you might as well use them.

Special Shades 144p (4 in each rank)
8 shades w/ great weapons

as stated go with a unit of 6-7 with add. hand weapons. the 6-7 part is due to role purposes as in a unit of 6 they are better at war machine hunting (best use IMO) or 7 to maximize attack when you flank charge something.

Special - Cold one knights 370p (5 in each rank)
10 knights, Musician, Standard bearer w/ Standard of hag graef, Dreadknight w/ ring of hotek

good unit IMO, now the banner goes either way. you either take the banner of hag graef to kill horde units or the flaming banner to hunt monsters.

Rare - Warhydra 175p

good, just watch out for flaming attacks. they will be plentiful if you play at the local store or whatever as the island of blood is coming out and you will see a lot of skaven players which means, there will be a lot of abominations. (same reason why you want to take the flaming banner.

Rare 2 Reaper bolt throwers 200p

I would switch these out right away for COC or another hydra (hey you like the model right)


comments in red =)

Eldoriath
20-08-2010, 13:02
Many usefull tips, but I don't understand what the pearl dagger combo means and what a BG is. Also another thing I've though about to ask: Can you use the BSB on stupidity using the 12" aura, or does it have to be with the unit?

Okay, I figured that warmachines was around T5 and not all to many attacks that it'd be more worth having the higher strenght and then just take a few casaulties instead for the trade off for inflictning more wounds.

Yeah, I have been thinking of two hydras, but seeing that the local turnies have in recent years had a ban on multiple rare choices I figured one would be better so I don't have one sitting out all the time, and that those reaper bolt throwers would add a much needed long-range multipe-wound weapon with quite good strenght.

I have taken a new look into the metal, dark and shadow magic lores and thought a bit about it. Metal has some nice spells, especially that scaly skin spell and the signature one, and shadow have some good debuffs and okkams razor. Dark magic has the really nice spell of giving 1d3+1 extra power dices to the pool and I figured that would be a good way to get off a few more spells or perhaps drain away a few dispel dices before I go to the serius magic. Also the large blast Str check isn't half bad, the lore has many good damage spells that are quite easily casted and a way to generate more dices just to the sorceress.

And in the dark magic there are some nice spells as well, making a unit WS and BS1 is good, making a unit unable to shoot is not bad either and they are all pretty easily casted compared to shadow that require some quite high rolls. Metal wins a bit there being lower casting totals demanded. Hm... Really though choice really, one would want all three of them ^^

So, I've been thinking of taking away my little corsair protector in the favor of giving the BSB a cold one mount and perhaps that S6 weapon or something else. Maybe add two shades to the list to make them two units of 5 and give one group extra hand weapons and keeping the other bare-boned. But otherwise keep it unchanged except that I will try out which lores to use. Maybe I'll even make room to add a bare-stripped lvl 1 sorceress using dark magic, using only one powerdice on her to try and get more powerdices and see which spell she get to cast. I dunno, must try and play more games to get the feel for how much magic in a army is too much, right now I feel that two are just about enough, and that the only addition would be a dark magic sorceress since she only needs one dice for her spell(s). Either the roll fails and she casts no more, or it succeeds and she gets off some nifty spell. Maybe take away a reaper bolt thrower for this sorceress?

Problem I though about though is that my warrior units first rank will consist of mainly non-melee units ^^
Perhaps I'll start looking into putting one i a group of X-bowmen...

LanceSaba
20-08-2010, 13:51
sorry about that. the pearl dagger combo is the pearl of infinite bleakness and the sacrificial dagger. this allows you to take a small unit of naked (bare bone) spears (slaves) stab a couple for power dice (allowing you to use more than 12 a turn) and the pearl prevents them from panic (allowing you to kill them to the man if needed) among other things when they are outside the range of your BSB.

BG is the general abbreviation for Black Guard.

I hate math hammering but stats show that 10 crossbowmen are better than a bolt thrower and they can target other stuff as well. also our bolt thrower has 2 wounds and takes a wound on a six at range (worse if they fire their own war machine at it) and is T 3 when in CC (close combat). so ya they really got beat down in 8th. On the bright side if you put one or even two down on a hill your opponent will think twice about putting his monster on that side of the board and then you can put your flaming banner on the other side =).

All dark elves get power of darkness regardless of what lore you pick (great thing about us really) but use it at the end of your magic phase as if you one dice it and fail your sorceress can't cast anymore spells hence a lvl 2 that can pick up any dice the lvl 4 might have missed out on. Shadow is nifty especially if you take multiple sorceresses or assassin that way you can be switching them around all over the place and get into a good firing position the debuffs are amazing and help any player lay the smack down, also the combo spells that can be cast are funny (at least in the eye of a dark elf) as you slow the enemy and then watch them fall into a hole (THIS IS SPARTA! cough cough). i would take a lvl 1 just for the sig spell in the lore of metal there are to many high armored targets out there that we can't bring down with our weak Str 3. if you go shadow and shift your guys around a lot or just buy your lvl 4 a DP (dark pegasus) you should think about giving her the lore of death as it is a great character sniping lore and what you want to do most is take out those BSB's and generals regardless of what it takes.

for the spears think about 30 strong 5x6 for getting stead fast and having a decent center unit that can be flanked by a unit of 20X Xbowmen or two. with the nice boost to our Xbowmen you can also think about fielding 3 units of 20 (go 10x2 the you can reform to 5x4 for CC).

2 units of 5 shades with additional hand weapons (on both) is a good way to go as it allows you to target 2 separate war machine (which you will be seeing a lot of).

Oh and the BSB re rolls are psychology tests within 12" it doesn't mean he has to be in the unit just that the unit need to be within 12. the thing is though is COK (Cold One Kinghts) are fast and will be out of range vary quickly. So it would be better to keep the BSB with them and as I have said earlier you can easily get a 1+ save. Oh if you are worried about the rest of your line you can always split him off before combat to to whip some fleeing elves. Or if you want to keep your BSB within your troop lines get a Cauldron of Blood BSB it saves you from having to buy a bunker, is durable in its own right, and can give blessings (unstoppable buff spells).

Eldoriath
20-08-2010, 21:22
No worries, I manage to keep up with about half the terms by having heard of them before or figuring them out and many of the shortenings, but one can't expect to know everything from start, right? ;)

As for black guards I've can see the appeal, but they've never interested me really.

Yeah, math-hammer is a cursed blessing. I've been thinking a bit aout it but never math-hammered it. ut now that I do... 11 X-bowmen does on avarage about 2 wounds on a T5 creature with 4+ save at long distance. A bolt thrower does 1 and 1/3 wounds on avarage on the same distance, it goes down to 1 wound at long distance where x-bowmen can't shoot. Hm... Interesting. Mabe I'll just up my two units of x-bowmen to 20 and take away the reapers instead.

Didn't know that all DE sorceresses got power of darkness, that's very usefull to know. Then I can go with metal and shadowlore seeing how metal is a really nice lore and also have a spell to wound every model in a unit on 5+, great for hordeunits. But perhaps I might give the shadowlore-user a dagger and pearl.

Also, while on that line: When do the dispeller declare how many dice to use? Before I roll but after I declared how many dice to use? After I rolled up my totalt, i e after using dagger to get up to my wanted casting total? Or in between, after I rolled but before I used other items that can be used after my initial rolling?

I'll check up some alternatives based on the tips I've gotten here and repost my list below when I'm done.

Eldoriath
20-08-2010, 22:09
So, now for the updated list.

Edit: Made some minor changes on my sorceresses and added back the Reaver with the corsairs.

Edit 2: Made some minor changes on my sorceresses and the master.

Lord - Lvl 4 Sorceress 330p (placed with warriors, will probably be used as general)
Lvl 4 upgrade, Sacrificial dagger, Pendant of Kaeleth, Shrieking blade, Shadow magic lore

Hero - Lvl 2 Sorceress 180p (placed with warriors)
Lvl 2 upgrade, Pearl of bleakness, Ironcurse icon and Tome of furion, Metal magic lore

Hero – Master 184p (goes with CoK)
Heavy armor, Sea dragon cloak, Lance, Shield, Battle Standard Bearer, Cold one mount, Talisman of Preservation

Core - Xbowmen 235p (10 in each rank)
20 with shields, Musician, Standard bearer

Core - Xbowmen 235p (10 in each rank)
20 with shields, Musician, Standard bearer

Core - Warriors 320p (6 or 7 in each rank depending on enemy army)
40 warriors with shields, Musician, Lordling, Standard bearer w/ banner of murder

Core – Corsairs 300p (7 in each rank)
25 Corsairs, Musician, Reaver, Standard bearer w/ Sea serpent standard

Special – Shades 85p
5 shades w/ additional hand-weapon

Special – Shades 85p
5 shades w/ additional hand-weapon

Special - Cold one knights 370p (6 in each rank until first casaultie perhaps, after that 5)
10 knights, Musician, Standard bearer w/ Standard of hag graef, Dreadknight w/ ring of hotek

Rare - Warhydra 175p

2494p

Found some odd points left and decided to free a few more so I could give my crossbowmen both musician and standard bearer seeing how they are important in some missions and good to have. Also doubled their unit size instead of having the bolt throwers.

My primary sorceress will probably be used as general since she will be in the thick amongst my spearmen and x-bowmen while my BSB will be more on one flank. Thus she wants to have a bit of protection, and the sword is simply to make enemies take a feartest when engaging in HtH, a steal really for 10p IMO and a good use of the sword. The other sorceress took a dirt cheap 6+ ward save against warmachines for some spare points, though it could be usefull since it's such a large unit for templates to hit. Either that or remove the reaver to give only her a 6+ ward save.

Changed so my corsairs just will have to manage on their own with perhaps some help from magical buffs/debuffs.

Was tempted to take a cauldron, but it felt wrong to bring in wyches in the army theme-wise. Besides magic seemed more fun/versatile even though +1 attack is very good to be able to give to a unit.

Added two shades and gave all of them addition hand weapon instead and split them up into two units so they can go war-machine hunting.

Have now removed basically all magical defense items which feels a bit unsafe, but I'll try a few games and see how it works.

Tactics is basically the same as before, difference being that I will now have access to more power dices if needed for my sorceresses and have the metal lore and guiding eye. Always nice to get a high chance getting Glitteringrobe and give all nearby units a 5+ scale save, meaning a 3+ save for spearmen and x-bow men =)

tmarichards
20-08-2010, 23:22
Unfortunately the Sacrificial Dagger and Feedback Scroll are both arcane items, so you'll have to drop one.

If you put a mounted character in an infantry unit he won't get a look out sir.

The knights don't need the ASF banner, they should go through most things on the charge and in any case they're I5. Try the Banner of Murder instead for a -4 armour save modifier on the charge.

LanceSaba
21-08-2010, 04:09
also your sorceress can't take armor only the WoC have that ability unfortunately.

also the pearl is more for a lvl 2 as you want to give your lvl 4 a talisman the PoK is good for miscasts and war machines but the 4++ from the general rule book helps against character sniping spells. also if you give her the 4++ think about giving your BSB the PoK as he will be charging the heavy hitters and such (better investment that the seal.

Eldoriath
21-08-2010, 12:28
Dang, well, off to make some changes again. Look at list above. The changes are quite minor so it feels unecessary to post the list all over again just for those few things.

LanceSaba
21-08-2010, 14:32
It is looking a lot better =)

one thing you could think about is dropping a COK and the 4 extra corsairs for six harpies (also great war machine hunters and are easy to convert) and an extra warrior bringing you to 2.5k on the nose.

also the cool thing about 40+ warriors is they have to option to go horde with 41 str 3 ap -1 attacks if you get hit by goblins and such or switch to 5X8 to have a great chance at being steadfast. by the way with the 41 attacks that is about 12 dead WS3 T3 5+ 6++ guys (the average soldier with light armor and a shield)

One thing that i have seen done with teclis the despised one is if you go three wide (with full command) you can actually put your sorceresses in the second rank. I am not sure about that one but it is something you should look into.

Eldoriath
21-08-2010, 15:38
I could do that, but I'm overly fond of even numbers, so I think I'll stick to the numbers I have now. Besides, thow extra 4 corsairs are extra wounds that I more or less count on will die before they reach combat.

I'm also starting to feel satisfied with the list. Only problem is that now I will have to wait for quite some time before I can try it XD

Also, on a side note: Isn't armor of darkness kind of... Well, useless? Seeing that you can get a 1+ save for about same points or less and using less points on magical items.

Yeah, taking a unit of perhaps 10 spearmen bare-stripped just for sacrificing and putting them 3 wide could work perhaps. But for now I will keep the large unit, and the shrieking sword will do a lot of good there. Since she only has 1A it is basically a perfect weapon for her since weapons that boost combat stats are wasted. And 10p to make the unit cause fear... Feels like I've over-looked something, but from what I can read that's how it works.

Anyway, I want to thank you very much for all the help you've provided =)