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Ulchishy
21-08-2010, 15:56
Hi everybody . Can someone explain me the differences between Squats and Demiurgs ? Thank you very much .

carldooley
21-08-2010, 15:58
I think that they are the same - not sure though.

mrln68
21-08-2010, 16:14
Considering that next to nothing is known about the Demiurgs...I would guess you will get a lot of speculation, but no one will be able to really tell you the differences between the two.

Popular belief seems to be that the Demiurgs are a second go at squats. Not necessarily the same in terms of squats being Abhumans - but space dwarves all the same.

Hellebore
21-08-2010, 17:05
Backgroundwise, the squats are an abhuman strain of human found within the galactic Core. They have evolved (or perhaps been engineered artificially) from normal humans. They are highly technologically advanced and aren't superstitious aroud machines. They also had more complete STC than pretty much any other human worlds.

The Demiurg are an advanced alien race that appeared on the eastern fringe and sold ion cannon technology to the tau. They hate orks and live on huge trading vessels that are mostly automated.

Thematically the Demiurg are said to be a redo of the 'dwarfen' archetype in space, after they failed to come up with a way to redo the squats in a suitably grimdark manner (if you don't think it could have been done, well you just have to see how bad the eldar and orks were back then too to know it was possible).

There is nothing in the background that even connects the two together. They are separate factions within 40k.

Some fans have decided to make the Demiurg squats that fled the core, but officially the two are not connected.

Hellebore

J-rock
23-08-2010, 03:40
The word Demiurg comes from the greek dēmiourgos and means a craftsman or artisan, strengthening the Demiurg's association with the dwarfish archetype.

FarseerMatt
23-08-2010, 08:47
If the Squats lived in the Core, how did the Tyranids manage to eat them?

Easy E
23-08-2010, 12:13
No real answer to that question exists. Only speculation based on a vaguely worded forward in an updated rework of a pre-Black Library novel.

So the sourcing for the "Death of the Squats" in background is pretty sketchy. The "Death of the Squats" as a GW army is sourced more accurately and basically comes down to, "we didn't feel like making them anymore."

Born Again
23-08-2010, 12:30
If the Squats lived in the Core, how did the Tyranids manage to eat them?

Could be:

A) Hive Fleet Leviathan coming up directly under the galactic plane.
B) Rogue Splinter Fleet getting tossed through the Warp and emerging near the galactic core.
C) Handwavium. Jervis said it happened, so it did.

madd0ct0r
23-08-2010, 13:14
D) it was genestealer cults that lead to widespread social collapse with starvation following. an actual splinter fleet never got there

Morollan
23-08-2010, 15:33
Jervis Johnson made a rather long-winded statement about Squats in which the Demiurg are mentioned.


In the end (and it took years to really get to the roots of the problem) this led to a realisation that we were going to have to drop the Squats in their 'Squat' form from the 40K background. There was little point having a major race that we weren't willing to make an army book for, and their inclusion in the background meant that people kept asking us when we'd do a Squat Codex. Instead we decided that we'd write the Squats out of the background by saying that their Homworlds had been devoured by a Tyranid Hivefleet. This would give us the option in the future to return to making a race based on the Squat archetype for 40K. This race was given the name of Demiurg, and a certain amount of preliminary work was done to get a 'feel' for what the race would be like. At present the only hint of the Demiurg in 40K is the Demiurg spaceship for BFG. However, we do have this race 'in our back pocket' as a possible new race for 40K, or an interesting character model in Inquisitor, or whatever.

Personally I think there is an opportunity here to reintroduce the Squats in the form of a bitter remnant of their once proud civilisation. I think I read somewhere that it was the Demiurg that introduced Ion weaponry to the Tau and who's to say what other technology they may have access to? GW could shake loose from the link to the Warhammer Dwarfs and come at this from an entirely different angle. The Demiurg would hate the Imperium for basically abandoning their entire race. They hate the orks already and I dare say they wouldn't be too keen on the Tyranids either.