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ArmyC
24-08-2010, 03:23
I picked up a ton of Lizardmen swag at GamesDay. I own the following:

30 Temple Guard
1 Lord Kroak
1 Stegadon
85 Saurus Warriors
18 Warriors on Cold Ones
50 Skink
3 Krocodon

I can either ebay this stuff and use it to get my marines painted, or start playing Fantasy with it.

I have 3 40k armies and love the game. Space Marines, Tau, and Eldar.

Just not sure I want to start Fantasy.

I sure don't want to start it if these Lizardmen are not a competitive army.

Aluinn
24-08-2010, 04:29
Well, if you use Kroak as a regular Slann, I think that could be a perfectly good army, yes. Lizardmen are one of the most powerful armies in FB right now, certainly, so I wouldn't let that put you off.

However, even if you don't like Lizards, you could just sell those and buy another FB army. The question is really not about the army, but whether you think you would enjoy Fantasy in general. If it looks like you would, then there is probably an army out there that will suit you.

For now I would recommend watching a few games of FB. If it seems like something you could get into, then you can go ahead and buy the BRB, and try out some games with a borrowed army. This might help you decide which to collect (or whether or not to just keep those Lizards). After that you can start painting up your own in earnest knowing that you're not spending a lot of time on something you won't stick with.

~PrometheuS~
24-08-2010, 04:46
Sell them and stick to 40k, many 40k players change game systems and hate it, as they rules are far different and complex, unless you have a few friends that play, and can teach you the right way, i dont see much hope

BluePojo
24-08-2010, 04:56
My gaming group consists of mostly 40k players that converted to Fantasy this edition (or used to play Fantasy a long time ago and have played mostly 40k over the years). They did make the comment that Fantasy takes more thinking, but also that they enjoy the game quite a lot. I wouldn't count 40k players out.

To the OP:
Definitely try to get a feel for how the different armies work. Lizards are pretty cool by my estimation, but all the armies have a different character and play style, so it'd be worth it to poke around.

Further, I tend to suggest playing an army that you like more than just the way they perform in the games. Look at the fluff, the general philosophy in tactics, the models themselves. You'd do well to like the army for multiple reasons or you'll find yourself wishing you had a different army every time revisions come out, which will lead to never finishing an army in the first place. :)

TheKingInYellow
24-08-2010, 04:59
Sell them and stick to 40k, many 40k players change game systems and hate it, as they rules are far different and complex, unless you have a few friends that play, and can teach you the right way, i dont see much hope

Please keep in mind that this is one of the posters who is most vocal about disliking the new edition.

Lizards in 8th edition are very powerful. It's a great army right now.

~PrometheuS~
24-08-2010, 05:51
Please keep in mind that this is one of the posters who is most vocal about disliking the new edition.

Lizards in 8th edition are very powerful. It's a great army right now.

This has nothing to do with liking or disliking the new edition, this is to do with history, very rarely have a seen a 40k player convert to fanstasy and like it

Sure some convert, but it is a very rare sight indeed

And i can tell you now, by the topic starters post, he likes pointing and shooting his big guns way to much and theres a 90 percent chance he will try warhammer and hate it, however if he likes it, its good for the game

ArmyC
24-08-2010, 17:33
ok, so is Fantasy alot like ancient phalanx warfare? Lots of manuever and positioning?

I know that magic is big. Does Magic take the place that shooting has in 40k? Do you need to be able to execute magic spells in correct combinations to maximize effect, like WARMACHINE? Or do you just pick magic that fits your list and use those spells over and over during the game?

What typically generates more casualties? Magic, shooting, or melee? Where does morale fit in? Is it easy to make units run? Percantage wise, what is most effective?

commander of the marines
24-08-2010, 17:38
This has nothing to do with liking or disliking the new edition, this is to do with history, very rarely have a seen a 40k player convert to fanstasy and like it

Sure some convert, but it is a very rare sight indeed

And i can tell you now, by the topic starters post, he likes pointing and shooting his big guns way to much and theres a 90 percent chance he will try warhammer and hate it, however if he likes it, its good for the game

donnuw where you got these numbers, but almost every fantasy player in my gaming group started with 40k (and does still play it) before he tried out fantasy and as far as I know they all liked it except for the odd one or two (but they disliked 40k as wel...).

papabearshane
24-08-2010, 17:49
It all depends on your list/army Fantasy is great as you can make a Magic heavy army, shooty heavy army or a combat heavy army and there are several choices for races that do well at each one and a feew that are just plain fun with all of them..................

Go try a few games if you can find people at your local store who will let you use an army..........

Ive seen alot of 40k player make the switch and have a great time with it........My self included........

Point is dont get bogged down in "Power" or "killyness" of an army its all about using your list to the best effect...............

I have used Orcs & Gobbos for many years and my 15,000+ Points of them is a testimant to the shear fun of fantasy.................I can destroy stuff with magic/Dominate the magic phase, Stomp people nto the Ground with my oh so large and impressive orc/gobbo hords or Shoot them to death with my crazy amount of warmachines.......................

I like to do all the above in the same game as then i Win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dont listen to negative people.................Just play a few games and enjoy..........

Phytrion
24-08-2010, 18:02
ok, so is Fantasy alot like ancient phalanx warfare? Lots of manuever and positioning?

I know that magic is big. Does Magic take the place that shooting has in 40k? Do you need to be able to execute magic spells in correct combinations to maximize effect, like WARMACHINE? Or do you just pick magic that fits your list and use those spells over and over during the game?

What typically generates more casualties? Magic, shooting, or melee? Where does morale fit in? Is it easy to make units run? Percantage wise, what is most effective?

First off, ignore Prometheus (or should that be Epimetheus ... burn!). I have seen several people, especially with the release of 8th edition, cross over successfully. As a fantasy to 40k convert, I can tell you that although there is quite a bit of difference in the game systems, because you're already familiar with some basics (to hit chart, to wound chart) you will be able to focus on grasping some of the bigger concepts.

In terms of magic, there are not combo moves like Warmachine - you pick a certain lore of spells and go from there. You can only cast a spell once per turn, so you cannot just sit and spam a fireball all phase. Magic can be devastating - and can swing both ways. The nice thing about 8th edition is that you can go magic light and not be totally ruined - it used to be if you didn't invest X amount of points in wizards strictly for magic defense you were in trouble.

The movement phase is certainly important, although it is now more forgiving with additional ability to reform, measure distances, and things like that. With 40k, you always had to think several turns ahead, where your units should be at turn 5 in case they roll that 1 or 2 and end the game. In fantasy, you need to think several turns ahead for positioning charges (or disrupting enemy charges). Because mas infantry units can easily become stubborn now, one charge won't be good enough and you'll have to coordinate quite a bit.

One thing that will make your transition easier with this edition is that previously, if you charged you attacked first that round of combat. Now it is initiative order, just like 40k.

TheKingInYellow
24-08-2010, 18:14
ok, so is Fantasy alot like ancient phalanx warfare? Lots of manuever and positioning?

I know that magic is big. Does Magic take the place that shooting has in 40k? Do you need to be able to execute magic spells in correct combinations to maximize effect, like WARMACHINE? Or do you just pick magic that fits your list and use those spells over and over during the game?

What typically generates more casualties? Magic, shooting, or melee? Where does morale fit in? Is it easy to make units run? Percantage wise, what is most effective?

The new version really supports the idea of big blocks of infantry. If you have more ranks of infantry than your opponent, you become hard to break. Combine that with a hero carrying your battle standard, and you become *very* hard to break.

The movement phase is key, picking your battles, denying flanks, and the like all combine to let you fight on your terms. You need to think ahead, be quick with accurate estimations and you have to know the capabilities of your unit and your enemy's as well.

Magic is somewhat restricted. Certain armies can choose certain lores, and that's that. As a Lizard player though, you have access to the best non-special character caster in the game with your Slaan.

As to what causes the most casualties it depends on the army. With lizards, magic or combat are both ahead of shooting, although shooting has it's place. units like Razordons and Salamanders can be quite effective. For other armies (Empire and Dwarves for instance) masses of artillery can be fielded to devastating effect.

Jetty Smurf
24-08-2010, 20:55
I definitely recommend giving it a go.

Lizardmen are a good army to use as a new player. They are quite forgiving, and once you get an idea of how to use them to their most effective, they are also a very strong army (moreso this edition).

Buying the LM army book (codex) and borrowing someones rule book would be a good start, but you don't have to read through the entire rule book or memorise anything if you play with others who are fairly well versed in the rules.

Fantasy may indeed not be your cup of tea, and if that is something you are worried about, then perhaps hold off on buying the LM army book (though after buying all those models, whats the cost of a book in comparison? ;)).

Everything else has pretty much already been said by Phytrion and TheKingInYellow.

Try it out, play a few games, and if you like it, you can come back here and ask for more advice on lists, tactics etc. There just so happens to be a lizardmen tactica in the tactics thread. It's quite long, but worth a read (even if to find out an idea on page 3 has been debunked on page 27 after a FAQ came out, heh).

ChrisIronBrow
24-08-2010, 22:49
This has nothing to do with liking or disliking the new edition, this is to do with history, very rarely have a seen a 40k player convert to fanstasy and like it

Sure some convert, but it is a very rare sight indeed

And i can tell you now, by the topic starters post, he likes pointing and shooting his big guns way to much and theres a 90 percent chance he will try warhammer and hate it, however if he likes it, its good for the game

Ok, well I'm one of them.

Started on 40k switched to Fantasy and I love both games. They are very different games though.

ChrisIronBrow
24-08-2010, 23:10
ok, so is Fantasy alot like ancient phalanx warfare? Lots of manuever and positioning?

Well, yes and no. When Resolving combats in addition to the number of wounds caused you get a bonus for doing things like attacking a units flank-rear, outnumbering your opponent in "ranks" of troops, having a standard, and so on. However, after determining the winner of a combat If you have more ranks than your opponent you take a leadership test, but it's not modified by how much you lost by.

It makes large units of infantry play very similiar to large mobs of Ork boys. Since most players bring at least one big unit to fantasy, try to imagine what would happen to 40k if you saw several mobs of 30 Ork Boys on opposing sides crash together in combat, that is very much like a fantasy battle. Usually lots and lots of killing until one side is decimated, and then it's run down and destroyed.


I know that magic is big. Does Magic take the place that shooting has in 40k? Do you need to be able to execute magic spells in correct combinations to maximize effect, like WARMACHINE? Or do you just pick magic that fits your list and use those spells over and over during the game?

Again, yes and no. Magic basicly is very random. Some armies (lizardmen for example) can make it very reliable, but mostly it's random. Magic can cause huge game winning swings every single turn. Games can be won and lost on turn 1, or on turn 6 through magic. While magic has lots of damage dealing spells it also provides lots of benefits to your troops, like giving them extra attacks, making them tougher stronger etc.. Some of these abilities stack, or "combo" nicely, others are very stand alone.

In a Lizardmen army with a Slann, I'd say magic is very much like a combination of shooting and psychic attacks in 40k. Slann have the ability to put out twice as much magic as any other caster in the game, so even though it's random, Random x2 is reliable.






What typically generates more casualties? Magic, shooting, or melee? Where does morale fit in? Is it easy to make units run? Percantage wise, what is most effective?

The Balance in fantasy is an interesting Rock, Paper, Scissors, type of a thing.

Shooting is amazing, but has little effect on large units of infantry, template shooting however can devastate Large units of infantry, Magic can wipe whole units off the table, and Melee is a Garanteed Carnage fest.

Large units of infantry will rampage over the table unless met with other large units of infantry, Magic, Or template shooting.

Fantasy is about getting the "balance" right. If your units are too big, when they die they cripple your army, if their too small they will die to everything.

Lizardmen are honestly one of the best Learning armies out there for Fantasy, They have Above Average units for all phases of the game.

eyescrossed
24-08-2010, 23:33
Ok, well I'm one of them.

Started on 40k switched to Fantasy and I love both games. They are very different games though.

Me too. And all 3 of my gaming buddies.

Lord Dan
25-08-2010, 03:20
You'll note that the one person advocating that you sell your fantasy models off on EBay has been banned. I can't think of a more obvious sign.

Gatsby
25-08-2010, 04:20
If your going to try it out, borrow a friends army, try a few games and see if you like it BEFORE you stick to it. Some of my friends like the new edition, personally i don't.

Aluinn
25-08-2010, 05:10
This has nothing to do with liking or disliking the new edition, this is to do with history, very rarely have a seen a 40k player convert to fanstasy and like it

Sure some convert, but it is a very rare sight indeed

And i can tell you now, by the topic starters post, he likes pointing and shooting his big guns way to much and theres a 90 percent chance he will try warhammer and hate it, however if he likes it, its good for the game

Um, I'm a former 40K player who has converted entirely to Fantasy. I think it's a much better game. At my LGS there are at least six 40K players who have picked up Fantasy recently and like it just fine. I don't see how there's any basis for this comment except, possibly, your own, necessarily limited, experience. (And yeah, I know I just cited *my* own experience, but the truth is, if you're going to tell someone they won't like something before they have even tried it, the burden of proof is on you. I'm only here to say he may or may not like FB.)

Even if you are firmly convinced that any 40K player is likely to hate FB, you're going to have to give some reasons why. As far as I can tell the OP said nothing about wanting to play a gunline or loving "his big guns", he just asked whether or not magic provided that element of gameplay in FB.

And, @ArmyC, magic generally is the major cause of heavy casualties from range. War Machines can also do this; a lot of them work just like Ordnance or Blast weapons in 40K, and I'm sure you can imagine, with Fantasy models being all tightly packed base-to-base, how much carnage that could cause. However, in addition to scattering, all of these have a chance to misfire, and, usually, blow themselves up. Units of infantry with ranged weapons are more reliable than either magic or war machines, but you pay for that by sacrificing the potential for massive damage. They're pretty much like units with rapid fire weapons in 40K if you remove the heavy/special weapon options. (They can't actually rapid fire, but if they get charged, they get an additional opportunity to shoot, so I'd say they're pretty close.)