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Bassik
24-08-2010, 10:53
Hi y'all, I'm very interested in starting a Bretonnia army, and want some advice, anecdotes, experiences, whatever you got. Just post it here, and I'll be gratefull.

Thanks!

elite_dannux
24-08-2010, 12:25
Mixed arms seems to be best.

Make big anvil units of MenatArms 40-50 strong. Augment them with a Beast Damsel and finish them of with Knights.

Trebuchets are one of the better artillery units in the game, take 2 :P
Bowmen with braziers have flaming attacks wich is really good.

Heroic Killing Blow is also very nice to slay that 400p nasty dragon.

Rolo Ramone
24-08-2010, 14:35
Here is my advice for you: Use the search function. Works great.

Here you go:
Bretonnia - The Battle Strategies: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267423&highlight=bretonnia
Tactica: Bretonnia in 8th Ed: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266095&highlight=bretonnia+tactics

Do not want to be rude, just want to help.

Malorian
24-08-2010, 15:33
Damn... I just deleted my personal 7th ed tactica yesterday...


I'll say that I am a true knight fan, but I think the 'best' bretonnian army should have one or two trebs and a unit of 20 men at arms/archers to hold a watchtower.

#1 rule for brets: your knights NEED the charge to be effective, so be careful and set them up carefully.

#2 rule for brets: do whatever you can to break the opponent on the charge, even if it means dual or tripple charging a unit.

#3 rule for brets: don't be afraid to flee. Yes you will lose the blessing but it's better than lossing a unit of knights.

russellmoo
24-08-2010, 15:54
The two above links are very useful.

I do think there is a benefit to fielding a diverse Bret army. Mine has the following, Lord on Pegasus (hippogryph if playing 3K), M@A, Bowmen, Treb, K of E, K of R, Grail Knights, Mounted Yoemen, damsels/prophetess.

They all have their uses and when used together can prove very tough to deal with.

Malorian
24-08-2010, 16:56
The problem I see with mixed armies is that the opponent concentrates on the knights (especially grail knights) such that when you hit you can't do enough damage to break the opponent.

You can wait for the infantry to catch up, but that means you take even more damage from shooting.

Tactically speaking, I think peasant blocks are best used just for taking the watchtower, or holding down one flank while your knights swamp the other. In either case this would mean just one unit (just different sizes).


Oh, and something else to add: The number 1 mistake of bret players when making a list is putting too many points into characters. In almost all cases you are better off taking more knights then taking a 'support paladin'.

Bassik
24-08-2010, 17:41
I didn't want just tactics but also stuff about the army people liked and their experiences with it... oh well. Thanks for the tactical input everyone.

Peril
24-08-2010, 19:24
I have played Bretonnians since their 6th Ed. release. I like the more "historical" feel to it, and I fielded a lot of peasants and stayed from field Pegasus Knights/Damsels as a result (I did field a single scroll caddy for 6th/7th). IU can't get a decent Ancients game anymore, so this is the best I can do ;)

Trains_Get_Robbed
24-08-2010, 19:58
@ Malorian: Multiple units of peseants is bad? I take roughly 2 blocks M@A (one horde -sometimes knight in/with the unit) with 2 blocks of Bowmwn, 2 trebs and 3 Knight Buses along with assoerted heroses. I find that the opponet may focus on one bus and sometimes cna kill off a good chunk. However, after a couple turns they either get fed up and attack something they can kill like the peasants or get charged. Will have to keep that in mind, would suck to be left with two units of bowmen and peaseants each to take on a slann and TG lol. :D :rolleyes:

Malorian
24-08-2010, 20:14
@Bassik: Well I can also say that I love brets. I love their fluff, I love their models, and I love the way they play.

They problem I have with them though is that they are hard to paint (hint: paint the horses before you put the bases on), hard to transport, and the metal models are top heavy and love to break.


@ Trains_get_robbed: the problem with just having blocks and blocks of peasants is that... well... they suck... I'm sure you know that from experience that when ever they get into a fight with anything they get their butts kicks, and they only work when supported by knights. But if you need the knights to make the infantry work, then obviously the knights are better, and then why not just take more knights?

In general I think people that love bretonnian peasant should use empire rules as their stats and abilities are much better for an infantry heavy army.

Trains_Get_Robbed
24-08-2010, 20:37
I would love to take more Knights, however why would one want to spend 20 points on or 24 points on a basic knight that after the first charge is going to be WS4 I3 S3 and one attack. Not ony that but staying in Lance formation is a must becasue once reformed the bonus for breaking ranks is gone and the target unit will be even more stead fast.

For one maxed knight bus I could insted take a horde of of Peseants roughly 50-60 man and a unit of 20 archers and even a paladin to boost killing power of the M@A if wanted. As opposed to the knights the M@A don't lose effectiveness as fast while taking 4-7 wounds a combat phase as would losing 2 knights a turn would.

I do agree that maxing out on peaseant units is not only silly, but pointless -why wouldn't one go play Empire instead? But having none in your force is just not an option for me.

Malorian
24-08-2010, 20:45
This is my current 3K list:

Prophetess lvl4, chalice of malfleur
Paladin *BSB* w/ horse, warbanner, virtue of duty

15 KE w/ FC, errantry banner
15 KE w/ FC
12 KotR w/ FC, banner of eternal flame
9 KotR w/ FC, banner of chalons
9 KotR w/ FC

9 questing knights w/ FC
9 questing knights w/ FC
4 pegasus knights

9 grail knights w/ FC

Total:2998


It hits like a punch in the face and takes you out fast. Got a big unit? I can easy dedicate three lances to take it out.

To me, the question of taking a lance of knights or a block of peasants is matter of 'Do I want to hit hard and have a good chance of smashing my opponent, or do I want to limp into combat and get owned?'.

Men at arms are WS2 and get completely dominated by almost everything in the warhammer world. In 8th your only real chance with them is to take so many that there is hope to whittle your opponent down before he takes you out.

What would you rather have? The glorious charge, or play as a punching bag that hopes your opponent's wrists break eventually?

Bassik
24-08-2010, 21:15
Oh I would go allmost, if not completeley, full knights. I've got an infantry horde in my Skaven, and it looks a lot more imposing then the peasants. No, what atracts me to Bretonnia are the knights.

Malorian, your list looks great, how does it perform? Amd what units would you recommend in a 1k list?

Trains_Get_Robbed
24-08-2010, 21:19
True, but then again how many other units in the game are struting WS3 and S3 I3? I could name 7 off the top of my head. Saying that Peasants have no place is like saying that I'm not going to take any H.E spearmen in my army becasue they are T3 and S3 and 9 points and thus cost more than D.E spearmen.

Peaseants are the only viable unit that a Bret army can generate enough C.R to win a sustained combat. Good luck if you don't break anything on the charge, espically if they are stubborn or have a BsB nearbye, I would defintiley be praying not only to the lady but the dice gods :lol:.

Edit: You wouldn't need more than two but, even to have just one Peasent block is just too useful to not pass up on.

Bassik
24-08-2010, 21:25
How about archers? Could I substitute normal men at arms for them? I like the immage of big volleys of arrows to soften up the enemy.

And after experiencing dwarven catapults, I got to get me one or two trebuchets, if I have the points. But as I sayd, knights are a priority here.

Edit: I really apriciate all the input of you guys, by the way. Thanks!

Malorian
24-08-2010, 22:24
Peaseants are the only viable unit that a Bret army can generate enough C.R to win a sustained combat. Good luck if you don't break anything on the charge, espically if they are stubborn or have a BsB nearbye, I would defintiley be praying not only to the lady but the dice gods :lol:.

Well your knight units can have up to 5 ranks without characters, and for those units that are hard/impossible to break I have the questing knights/pegasus knights/grail knights to toss in for continued kills (such units would reform into two ranks after the charge while while the long lances keep the lance formation.


A 1K list for Bassik:

Damsel lvl 2 w/ horse
Paladin *BSB* w/ horse

12 KE w/ FC, errantry banner
9 KotR w/ FC, banner of eternal flame

9 questing knights w/ FC

Total: 999

Rolf
25-08-2010, 17:32
Archers are brilliant but they can't really move. There best sat at the back shooting and protecting the Trebucet. Men at arms are good at holding up units, if you stick the battle standard in there 40 peasants won't be going anwhere and if your lucky might win combat. Basically think of them as goblins.

One of the best experences I've had with peasents is a unit of 30 Men at Arms (I horded them before the rule came out) chasing of a unit chaos orgers.

Haravikk
25-08-2010, 17:41
I'm curious to know what people think of the Grail Reliquae and Battle Pilgrims? To me a Stubborn unit seems invaluable, especially if you only want one or two main infantry blocks.

Bretonnians are one of the many armies I have on my list for after I've grown my Skaven horde into a new carpet for my room. But it'll be one of those challenge armies for me in that I'll be looking at what Malorian mentioned earlier on about lost of knights and maybe one or two infantry blocks at most for watch-tower capturing and/or tarpit as needed.
In any event, they seem a pretty decent unit to me except that the models are horrible, I'd likely use flagellants and some kind of conversion instead, don't suppose anyone knows any good conversions for the reliquae itself?

Phytrion
25-08-2010, 20:11
I'm going mostly all cav for 'Ard Boyz this weekend, but in the 'Ard Boyz setting the Fey Enchantress is a must have or go home type of situation.

Fey Enchantress
Lord with Shield, Barded Warhorse, Virtue of Heroism, Sword of Strife (might change the weapon)
Paladin with BSB, Gromril Great Helm, Horse, Grail Vow

Core:

Archers: 20x; Flaming Attacks
Knights of the Realm: 12x Full Command
Knights of the Realm: 11x; Full Command; War Banner, joined by Lord

Special:
Pegasus Knights: 6x, Full Command

Rare:
Grail Knights 11x, Full Command, Banner of Defense, joined by BSB
2 Trebuchets

Other:
Grail Guardians: 8, Full Command, No Stand and Shoot Banner

In my last playtest with these guys I beat a dwarf army with 4 stone throwers, 4 bolt throwers, and three organ guns. With one grail knight unit at a 4+ ward versus the shooting, and my other at a flat 5+ ward save (b/c of the Enchantress), we were rocking. I'm tempted to drop a trebuchet for a beast lore damsel, but I'm not sure - a trebuchet wiped out 12 longbeards in one hit.

russellmoo
25-08-2010, 20:57
I like having the large block of M@A, because sometimes you run into things that it is better to tarpit, then try and kill with lances, or questing knights.

That much being said, my peasants (M@A, bowmen, treb) take up less than 1/5 of my pts. So just keep that ratio in mind.

My Bret army is also my best painted and the one I enjoyed painting the most.

Trains_Get_Robbed
26-08-2010, 04:46
Phytrion: Why don't you take out 2 Peg.K, 5 bowmen and either or a knight or War Banner? Gets you level 2 and channeling rod/chalice of Malefuer and B.Horse if I'm not mistaken?

Essentially the Peg.K and Archers will serve there purposes essentially the same with little cost to benefit. Is 6 Peg.K really better than 4? Not by much if the role is to warmachine hunt and clean up enemy fast/light cav/units. Meanwhile the flaming archers play the same role getting rid of regen on a regening monster (hpa comes to mind) for the trebs to kill off or to tag team with the Peg.K in killing light/fast units/cav -your Peg.K won't be able to make a first turn charge often.