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View Full Version : cannons, large targets and obstacles.



RanaldLoec
24-08-2010, 11:25
Ok a large larget cannot claim cover for being stood behind an obstacle as per pg72.

A cannon balls bounce stops if it strikes an obstacle, the obstacle is then destroyed as per pg113.

So a large target stood right behind an obstacle cannot be hit by a cannon ball unless its bounce starts on the large targets base.

If the bounce begins on or before the obstacle the cannon ball travels no further as per the BRB.


A recent opponent argued that the bounce continues as a large Target cannot claim a "cover save" from the obstacle so the large target would be hit.

I tried explaining that a cannon doesn't roll to hit but he couldn't separate the concept of rolling to hit and the way a cannon acts like a template weapon.

Haravikk
24-08-2010, 12:10
Hmm, this sounds like something that probably should be tweaked in future, but the cannonball hitting an obstacle isn't a cover-save. A cover-save is only the soft or hard cover bonus given by an obstacle against regular shooting.

I think that really it should still hit the large target personally, but under the current rules it will not.

RanaldLoec
24-08-2010, 12:57
Thanks haravikk that's what I thought.

It is worth noting that if the bounce begins after the obstacle basically on the large targets base it would hit it as the bounce doesn't contact the obstacle.

The chances of getting the bounce to start bang on a 40 or 50mm base arnt great though.

Little Joe
24-08-2010, 20:34
The rules on cannons are clear on this one. You destroy the obstacle and the shot ends.

Notasquick
24-08-2010, 21:08
Yes, that is the way it now seems to work. It is the only time that the Cannon's accuracy is reliably out done by the Bolt Thrower in the game.

It is a very strangely worded rule that seems to have a few loopholes. If the obstacle and model are touching each other then you can target that boundary, the bounce then automatically stops on both the obstacle and model.

The no damage behind an obstacle logic breaks down when you consider the same Cannon against the model in a building. Maybe it should be working in a similar fashion to the old unit in a building rules and doing a number of hits (possibly of lesser strength).

The Large Target rule though is a bit of a red herring as the size of the target has no bearing on the Cannon's current rules. However, it would make more sense that the downward path of a cannon ball before the bounce would effect any Large Target or maybe Monster in the way.

Casshole
24-08-2010, 21:17
If a cannon ball hits a wall and stops, whats the difference what is behind it?

Large creatures won't get the -1/-2 to hit mods for cover. the obstacle ruling is something seperate from that.

It makes sense that you would have to actually hit the target behind a wall, a bounce is a bounce no matter where you aim.

Yrrdead
24-08-2010, 22:27
Does it seem strange to anyone else that you fire a cannonball and a Fence/Hedge will protect the model behind it. You fire a cannonball at a character behind a building and there is no protection.

Dutch_Digger
25-08-2010, 00:29
lol thats a good point

bretonnian bowmen have those pikes, those things stop cannonballs better than a brick wall hehe

elite_dannux
25-08-2010, 11:31
And it all comes down to this phrase. Its just to good to not post.

Originally posted by CasaHouse:You're arguing realism in a game where
skaven can use an unstable radioactive stone like cocaine, Lizards can
shoot blowpipes without lips, Trolls can regrow severed heads, and some
knights' faith can make cannonballs bounce off them like tennis balls.
But no! They should...n't be able to repeatedly use lances! That just
wouldn't be realistic enough!

Haravikk
25-08-2010, 11:45
While realism certainly shouldn't be the order of the day, it helps to ground things in some realism so that rules don't end up making no sense at all.

Personally I think the obstacle thing should only subtract D3" from the bounce or something like that, and maybe reduce the Strength, so that it won't be stopped completely unless it has too little bounce distance left.

Casshole
26-08-2010, 04:51
Well they made it alot easier to hit with cannons. Now I know why. Also i wont be pissed when I roll up 3 obstacles hehe

Citadel97501
27-08-2010, 06:19
Does it seem strange to anyone else that you fire a cannonball and a Fence/Hedge will protect the model behind it. You fire a cannonball at a character behind a building and there is no protection.

Actually remember that they have to pick a point they can see, but I agree its odd that a brick building doesn't stop a cannon ball but a hedge does. . .

Oh and I found another use for Great Eagles, if it doesn't kill it the cannon ball stops. . . only 3 wounds but what the hell. . .