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blumley
24-08-2010, 23:53
hi been a while since i'v been on here so thought i would seek some advice to get me back into it.

i have a tournament coming up for 40k 1750 pts and was thinking of taking chaos but im unsure. As a codex is it still considered strong enough to compete in the current 40k environment.

the codex does have some great units plague marines, oblits, daemon princes and i quite like the terminators to with 4 combi meltas, heavy flamer. however the codex doesnt seem to have a lot of strength and depth to it.

for what its worth i was gonna take 2 princes, 3 plague marine squads in rhino's 2x meltas, vindicator, termies, 3 oblits, 1 landraider.

any suggestions for best way to go with the codex would be appreciated. also for that army make up would you go 1 lash prince and 1 nurgle prince with warptime or 2 lash.

thanks for your help anyway

Erwos
25-08-2010, 00:05
The "competitive list" is two DPs w/ lash, 9 obliterators, and mech PMs / berzerkers to taste. That's not to say nothing else will work, but there is one list that does.

blumley
25-08-2010, 00:08
yeah iv tried that list out but started to find the second lash not needed with the 40k environment being mostly mech now

Grand Master Raziel
25-08-2010, 00:31
Personally, I think being good with the army you've got trumps having what teh intarwebz considers the best build for a particular army. If you've got a reasonably competent list you've played all year against a variety of opponents, you're better off with that list than with a power list tweaked online that you've never actually played before.

blumley
25-08-2010, 00:42
yeah im gonna play with the list anyway as iv played it for a couple of years now and im pretty happy with it. was just interested in peoples views on the matter

Erwos
25-08-2010, 00:52
Personally, I think being good with the army you've got trumps having what teh intarwebz considers the best build for a particular army. If you've got a reasonably competent list you've played all year against a variety of opponents, you're better off with that list than with a power list tweaked online that you've never actually played before.
Yes, but you're _best_ off with a tweaked list that you've played a lot. Not all units are created equal, and this is _especially_ true of the Chaos codex.

owen matthew
25-08-2010, 00:53
Personally, I think being good with the army you've got trumps having what teh intarwebz considers the best build for a particular army. If you've got a reasonably competent list you've played all year against a variety of opponents, you're better off with that list than with a power list tweaked online that you've never actually played before.

Here is a man that understands how the game works!

StormWulfen
25-08-2010, 00:57
I find that you don't need lash Princes and Oblits to win with chaos, it's just that people don't like to try new things anymore, I played against a mech guard army recently and took a Daemon Prince with a mark of Khorne, a Sorcerer with no mark and a familiar (Doombolt and Wind of Chaos) 2 units of CSMs with Champions and Rhinos, a Vindicator, 2 units of 5 Havocs (1 with Lascannons, one with Autocannons) and 5 Termies with a Reaper cannon and Combi-melta.

we were playing objectives and all I lost were my Termies and Rhinos and won the game. I did that by using units I liked (background, models) not units that everyone tells me to use "so I will always win"

_dandaman_
25-08-2010, 00:58
I've also seen a nasty list with 2x squads of 10 beserkers and a squad of 8 with a term lord all in landraiders+ some dreads with TL lascannon and DCCW, just tore apart my brothers SM.

burning crome
25-08-2010, 01:13
The chose codex is still solid. There are a few units and set to avoid in competitive play but every thing is petty much still ok. The only real down side is that your slightly over paying in points for a few things compared to the newer dex. So you've got to think that your playing missing a few models. That being said your cult troop choices (beserkers/ plague) are still one of the best in the game if mildly over costed.

blumley
25-08-2010, 01:21
yeah i tend to find that with plague marines as i love them but just feel like they are a point or 2 too high, will take something to the list similar to the one above. i'v decided to take one lash and one prince with MON and warptime as i always find him useful.

samiens
25-08-2010, 20:06
I use that combination of princes and its great beacuse they tag unbelievably well and so many players fixate on the lash while warpy takes it apart

Askari
25-08-2010, 20:16
Using the following list I've only been beaten by two armies, those were Kan & Nob horde Orks and Vulkan led Salamanders;



Abaddon the Despoiler
4 Chaos Terminators
- Chainfist, 2 Combi-Meltas, Icon of Tzeentch
Land Raider

A hammer unit, it can take on virtually any other unit out there, heck Abaddon alone can take on virtually any unit out there. Especially good vs. other deathstars

3x 10 Chaos Space Marines
Icon of Chaos Glory
Squad 1 - 2 Meltaguns, Power Fist
Squad 2 - 2 Plasma Guns, Power Fist
Squad 3 - 2 Plasma Guns, Power Weapon
3x Rhinos

Solid, anvil, Troops, able to stay back and shoot or hurl forward and assault. Quite possibly the best troops in game along with Grey Hunters I think.

Obliterator
Obliterator

2 one-man units lets me be sure one will arrive when I need it to, and gives me more selection on positioning. Icons make them arrive safely.

Defiler

Purely there to draw fire, especially with my converted one. The Battlecannon is nice, but never be afraid to fleet into combat when you need to.



The only unit there usually considered "competitive" by the internet are the Obliterators, and I only have two. My own experience proves, to myself at least, that Lash Prince isn't the be all end all of Chaos tournament power.

jsullivanlaw
26-08-2010, 19:38
I think chaos is still competetive but certainly arent as tough as they used to be. I went to Ard Boyz regionals in WA with the following list (from memory):

2 squads of 10 zerkers with fists in rhinos
3 squads of 10 csm with mark of khorne fist, 2xmelta in rhinos
2 Vindis w/possession
1 squad of 9 zerkers w/fist in Landraider
Kharne with above squad
1 winged Lash Daemon Prince

The list smashed appart other close combat armies but i had some issues with dedicated shooting armies and didn't make it past regionals. I also think i was the only chaos marine player at regionals, there might have been one or two others but i didn't see them. From what i remember it was mostly blood angels and IG with some Space Woofs and Orks, and a smattering of Eldar and Nids.

Setesh
26-08-2010, 20:27
the chaos marine codex is still very competitive as long as you're aware of the truly duff units *cough spawn cough* Of course if you're playing for fun and not the win, you can still do well with whatever you want.

Personally I roll a bunch of thousand sons in rhinos, a land raider, predator and a bunch of overcosted tzeentch terminators with sorcerer lord and still do surprisingly well in friendlies. The internet would no doubt say otherwise, so just pick what appeals to you and have fun! You'll figure out what works for YOU. I've tried in the past to run lists people recommend, and they rarely work in the same way as the person touting them as people have different playstyles.

If you just want more chance of winning sure, go with a plaguemarine obliterator combo as said above, PMs take obscene punishment and I always chuckled as my opponent grumbled at feel no pain saves XD I don't play deathguard anymore so I make do with my 4+inv saves :)

Askari
26-08-2010, 21:00
As a sidenote of sorts, I never advocate 2 HQ choices in a Chaos army. Chaos HQs are extremely expensive, but they are powerful enough alone. I think an extra squad of Cult marines are always a better option than a second HQ.

Setesh
26-08-2010, 21:18
As a sidenote of sorts, I never advocate 2 HQ choices in a Chaos army. Chaos HQs are extremely expensive, but they are powerful enough alone. I think an extra squad of Cult marines are always a better option than a second HQ.

Seconded. I've never had the points, ut then again I play 1500 pts max

jsullivanlaw
26-08-2010, 21:39
As a sidenote of sorts, I never advocate 2 HQ choices in a Chaos army. Chaos HQs are extremely expensive, but they are powerful enough alone. I think an extra squad of Cult marines are always a better option than a second HQ.

I have to disagree, though it depends on the option you pick and the loadout. Squads of cult marines run almost twice as much as an HQ(with the loadouts i use), or possibly more than twice as much as an HQ. That is assuming 10 man squads, which is the only way to go in my opinion. Daemon princes are an absolute bargain for the point cost and Kharne isn't too shabby though he is powerfist vulnerable.

KingDeath
27-08-2010, 09:24
Why are people still using Lashprinces? I thought that they have become pretty mediocre with the current mechanised playstile.

Mentat
27-08-2010, 14:48
I think they are competitive. So do my opponents. The CSM squad is one of the best troops choices in the game, IMO. If you are unsure of your playing ability, go with a daemon prince or two, some plague marines or berserkers, and 9 obliterators, though that probably wont win you many friends. Or just use what you like from the codex. Most of the stuff in the codex is pretty solid.

Zweischneid
27-08-2010, 14:58
Why are people still using Lashprinces? I thought that they have become pretty mediocre with the current mechanised playstile.

The currently mechanised playstyle isn't quite as mechanised as it used to be a year ago or two. You'll see plenty of Longfangs, Genestealers, Astorath-Nutters, etc.., that all deserve a Lashing. Against a Mech-vet-list it might fizzle, but so will all the other powers.

Besides, the Lash is fun and unique, even if it isn't the best power out there. What do you want? Stuff like Warptime re-rolls etc.. are certainly beyond boring. Psychic Meltaguns a waste of a good HQ. At least with Lash (and perhaps Gift) you get to zap about on the field with cool chaosy stuff. I love it.

Askari
27-08-2010, 16:11
Why are people still using Lashprinces? I thought that they have become pretty mediocre with the current mechanised playstile.

Yeah because no one ever gets out of transports/transports never get destroyed :rolleyes:

It's still a very cheap psychic power that is worth taking even if it only affects one unit all game.

jsullivanlaw
27-08-2010, 18:24
I think they are competitive. So do my opponents. The CSM squad is one of the best troops choices in the game, IMO. If you are unsure of your playing ability, go with a daemon prince or two, some plague marines or berserkers, and 9 obliterators, though that probably wont win you many friends. Or just use what you like from the codex. Most of the stuff in the codex is pretty solid.

I wouldn't really feel bad or cheesy bringing any combination of units from the chaos codex now that Blood Angels, Space Woofs, and IG have their 5th edition codexes.

Vaktathi
27-08-2010, 18:36
CSM's are still pretty competitive, and they still have a large number of builds that can be competitive, however if you are playing an Undivided army (e.g. no god specific dedicated units), you might as well use the Space Wolves book since many of the units are *very similar (e.g. Chosen, Terminators, basic CSM's, Lords and Socerors have very close equivalents in Wolf Guard, Grey Hunters, Wolf Lords and Rune Priests), but have Counterattack and often end up cheaper and/or more options as well.

But aside from that CSM's still work pretty well against most armies

Mentat
27-08-2010, 18:41
I wouldn't really feel bad or cheesy bringing any combination of units from the chaos codex now that Blood Angels, Space Woofs, and IG have their 5th edition codexes.

Yeah, I have been beating them (but not IG yet) with this sort of list:

Chaos lord
terminator squad
2 close combat dreads
3 CSM squads in rhinos
2 Defilers
3 Obliterators

I'm not sure how good Lash Princes would be vs a lot of mech and a psychic hood, and my opponents seem to destroy my oblits pretty quickly.

I wouldnt actually feel bad about taking any list from any book, but some people get upset about certain things. My main objection to the DP/berserkers/oblits list is from a fluff perspective.

blumley
27-08-2010, 19:42
thanks for all your replies guys has been interesting to see different points of views :)

with regards to lash i think having one is very handy to have floating around in the army but not sure basing your whole list around it is the way to go. im still finding the plague marines to be very good and the terminator squad has been awesome, which was a bit of a surprise so think they will stay in the army