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View Full Version : 2000 points beastmen, first try, with some questions



Napalm
25-08-2010, 14:01
Hello, here is a first try. I haven't played with the beastmen yet, so feel free to tell me what's useless/not good in this list.

Lord:
Great Bray shaman, level 4, talisman of preservation, staff of Darkoth. 330

Heroes:

Bray shaman, level 2, Talisman of endurance 140
Gorebull, gold sigil sword, armour of fortune 210

Core:

12 gors, full command, 2 hand weapons (ambushing unit) 122
10 ungor raiders (ambushing unit) 60
5 warhounds 30
20 gors, full command, shield & hand weapon 185
20 ungors, full command, shield & hand weapon 115

specials:
2 razorgors 110
6 minotaurs, Bloodkine with sword of swift slaying, musician, standard bearer, additional hand weapons 429
20 bestigors, full command 270

And now the questions:
-Maybe too much point in magical objects?
-What lore for the wizards? What's the most useful between shadow, death, beast & wild?
-I can remove some object and the great bray shaman and take Malagor instead. Which is the best?

Thanks in advance.

lcfr
26-08-2010, 00:12
Great Bray shaman, level 4, talisman of preservation, staff of Darkoth. 330

What Lore will he be running with? Remember: in 8th the Lore each wizard will be taking must be written into your army list. Lore selection is an important part of list writing now, so it's worth considering what kind of role you want your wizards performing each game.

As for his items: Talisman of Preservation is a good pick for the General - the Staff is alright as well, but works great when another Shaman carries the Hagtree Fetish.


Bray shaman, level 2, Talisman of endurance 140

I don't think Talisman of Endurance is a must-have item for a level2 - you are probably much better served by taking magic items that can tone down enemy magic and shooting. Since we're not renowned for our magical prowess (our Shamen are nothing to sneer at, but they aren't Slaan either...), all we really have going for us is our combat capabilities: magic and shooting can ruin us. Personally, between my lvl3/4 and my lvl2 I always run Chalice of Dark Rain, a Dispel Scroll, and a Stone of Spite. Talisman of Endurance is wasted on a T4 2W wizard, who imo should be investing in gear to either ratchet up his magic or ratchet down the opponent's.


Gorebull, gold sigil sword, armour of fortune 210

Your Minotaurs are already a black hole of points (I really have it in for Minotaurs), so at 2k maybe the Gorebull can sit out.


12 gors, full command, 2 hand weapons (ambushing unit) 122
10 ungor raiders (ambushing unit) 60

I think it's good that you're not investing too many points in Ambush, but at the same time you want what investment you make to be worthwhile - your opponent will honestly find 10 Raiders and 12 Gors laughable, and generally won't even fear being rear charged by either of these units. If your Raiders' only role is to hunt warmachine, I think you're better off paying 10 more pts for 5 Scouting Harpies, who can much more reliably get the job done.


5 warhounds 30
20 gors, full command, shield & hand weapon 185
20 ungors, full command, shield & hand weapon 115

Not sure what you'll do with your hounds. I've been asking this question of every fellow Beast list, since personally I don't know why I should run Warhounds anymore.

Both your Gor and Ungor units are way too small imo. They rely on their mass and bulk in close combat to be effective, which means even a few casualties from shooting/magic makes them woefully easy to wipe out when it's time for cc. I don't run Gors myself, but I wouldn't run a unit of less than 30 unless they were Ambushing - even then, I would want around 25 still. Ungors are 'minimum unit size 30+' for me as well.


6 minotaurs, Bloodkine with sword of swift slaying, musician, standard bearer, additional hand weapons 429
20 bestigors, full command 270

I think the Bestigors could use just a few more models - even 2 would be nice. Also, if your GBS is the General they should probably have the Standard of Discipline to buff him to LD9; imo LD8 isn't an acceptable LD for Beasts, since we're just so psychology-susceptible.

Like I said earlier, I'm really not sold on Minotaurs in 8th - I definitely wouldn't sink points in a Bloodkine and a magic item for him. If you're short on points for the army, you could even lose the AHWs and still be ok.


-Maybe too much point in magical objects?

It's not that you're spending too many points on magic items, it's rather what you're spending points on. I suppose players differ on the question of magic items, but personally I like to take advantage of items that will give my army a buff in some way or compensate for innate weaknesses (i.e. vulnerability to shooting/psychology) - Chalice of Dark Rain, Ironcurse Icon, etc. are all favorites.


-What lore for the wizards? What's the most useful between shadow, death, beast & wild?

Wild will always be out of the question for me - my opponent will have to fork over crates of cash to get me to use it against him. Beasts is so far my favorite Lore to use - all the spells are handy (some more than others), but being able to have multiple wizards w/Wildform can just break the enemy's back when it's time to fight. Spells like Amber Spear are always handy, and Transformation can turn a 130ish pt lvl2 wizard into a killing machine. The signature spell alone is really what makes this Lore shine.

Not sold on Shadows personally...others have used it to great effect against me, but I think you can get access to good hexes in Death, as well as great character/monster sniping spells (and a rip-off of Pit of Shades). I will probably start running a lvl3 with Death and a lvl2 (or two lvl1s) with Beasts.


-I can remove some object and the great bray shaman and take Malagor instead. Which is the best?

One facet of the Beastmen army you don't seem to have properly considered yet is Leadership! I notice there's no BSB in your army, and for many Beast players you'll find the BSB is the #1 must-have model/unit of the army. Losing 20 Bestigors to a Panic test because the 5 Warhounds screening them got blasted to pieces by bowfire is not a pretty thing; being Steadfast w/Ld6 or 7 is pitiful. You really need a BSB before you do anything else - it should be a cornerstone to your army.

For Leadership reasons, I wouldn't run Malagor unless I could get access to a LD9 (or LD8 GBS + Standard of Discipline) character as well. Malagor isn't a reliable General since his shtick is flying around and causing havok amongst the enemy lines...he's usually too far away to benefit from his Inspiring Presence. He's a really cool character, but you have to think about the needs of the army as a whole first - you need a character with strong Ld for Beastmen, and Malagor doesn't fit the bill as a good General (and at 2k you don't want to stretch yourself thin by running too many characters and not enough meat and potatoes).

So here's my general advice: go back to writing your list with the following in mind-

1. what's going to compensate for my troops' low LD and vulnerability to psychology? (A: BSB, LD9 General....8 is iffy, but it's your call)

2. where are my anvils? where are my hammers? (20 Un/Gors don't qualify as either imo...too few to be a solid anvil, too weak to be a solid hammer)

Napalm
26-08-2010, 07:47
Well, first, thanks a lot for this huge post full of infos.
Mostly this list is made from the available minis I've got (bought some already painted ones, not enough time to paint a new army) so I've got:

-30 ungors
-32 gors (10 more on their way via post)
-2 razorgors
-20 bestigors
-5 centigors
-Khazrak the One Eye
-Malagor, the Dark Omen
-Morghur, Master of Skulls
-1 shaman
-1 hero
-10 warhounds
-Ghorros Warhoof
-6 minotaurs
-doombull

Waiting also for a giant and a BSB (on their way via post too).
After reading your thoughts, it seems that I need more gors/ungors/bestigors with the points gained from the gorebull/hounds/bloodkine drop.

Will come back with a new list soon, thanks again for the infos.

Ratbeast
26-08-2010, 09:48
A bsb us a must, shouldnt enter battle without

Napalm
26-08-2010, 11:59
Thanks.
Well, here is my new list with the mini I've got right now:

2x5 ungors raiders, hand weapons, short bows, halfhorns 2x36 (one unit in ambush, just to get rid of one annoying warmachine if any)
30 gors, shields, foe render, musician, standard bearer, hand weapons 265
30 ungors, halfhorn, hand weapons, shields, musician, standard bearer 165
Wargor, heavy armor, Chalice of dark rain, Battle Standard Bearer 154
Bray Shaman, Braystaff, level 2, staff of Darkoth 160 (lore of death)
Great Bray Shaman, bray staff, level 4, talisman of endurance Hagtree Fetish 285 (lore of the beast)
Beastlord, armour of destiny, enchanted shield, dragon helm, 210
1 Razorgor 55
6 minotaurs, musician, standard bearer 360
20 bestigors, gouge horn, musician, standard bearer, great weapons 270

Will buy a new battalion to reinforce the gors/ungors/bestigors as soon as I can, and will maybe drop the minotaurs to make bigger unit and/or another ambush one.

Polaria
26-08-2010, 12:31
10 ungor raiders (ambushing unit) 60
...
...
20 ungors, full command, shield & hand weapon 115



I don't think this is exactly legal. Ambushing unit needs to have a unit of same type and at least same size on board. Ungor Raiders and Ungors are two different unit types (one is skirmishing and one is not).

Napalm
26-08-2010, 12:33
Ah ok.
Well in this case no problem: I can split the 10 ungor raider in half: 2x five raider units, one in ambush.