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View Full Version : What's the smallest (number of models) 2000 point army you can come up with?



Venerable_Bede
25-08-2010, 22:59
Just curious.

Loopstah
25-08-2010, 23:10
So basically which army has the most expensive core models?

theunwantedbeing
25-08-2010, 23:15
13 with Beastmen seems to be the lowest.

7 Tuskgorchariots
2 Razorgor chariots
Jabberslythe & Giant
Morghur & Malagor (or any combination of 2 similarly priced character's)

1980pts

SamVimes
25-08-2010, 23:31
I got 13 with beastmen. Can't think of anything smaller than that for this edition.

w3rm
25-08-2010, 23:46
What is the list? Wouldnt a Throgg list have less?

Gundobad
26-08-2010, 00:23
Oges have the most expensive core troops. 48 points for an irogut. bringing in things like slave giants and leadbelchers who are 55 a pop you can have a very small army.

Lazarian
26-08-2010, 00:23
ok well working off the top of my head i see 7 chariots as core

Giant and Cygore as rare

any of the big lords are about 350 points

1 Razorgore Chariot as special

the remaining 445 points can be done with 2 heroes of varying degree


that comes up to 13 models from what I can see, against certain opponents it might do rather well also with its speed and general hitty-ness

SamVimes
26-08-2010, 00:56
What is the list? Wouldnt a Throgg list have less?

Lowest I got with a throgg list was 17.


Oges have the most expensive core troops. 48 points for an irogut. bringing in things like slave giants and leadbelchers who are 55 a pop you can have a very small army.

Tuskgor Chariots are 80 points.

@Lazarian: Yeah, that's pretty much the same list I built.

w3rm
26-08-2010, 01:32
Skaven

Throt the Unclean- 225

Grey Seer- 275
Skalm Dragonbane Gem

Plague Priest-231
Lvl 2, 50 Points of Gear, Pox Rat, Plague Censor

Plague Priest-231
Lvl 2, 50 Points of Gear, Pox Rat, Plague Censor

7 Rat Ogres 2 Packmasters-296

7 Rat Ogres 1 Packmaster-288

2 HPA with Warpstone Spikes- 500

so 23 models in a skaven list. Not horrible! Not 13 but still not that many.

Arkh
26-08-2010, 01:34
16 for Ogre Kingdoms.
16 for Tomb Kings.
13 for Beastmen.

Pacorko
26-08-2010, 01:36
Lazarian beat me to it.

That's what I consider the abolute lowest model count for a legal army... and of course, it had to be Beastmen.

Ah, the days of Nurgle Minos as a legal army... 12 was it!

Now, Arkh, your math is a wee bit off for eight Iron Guts, three butchers, a tyrant--all of them beefed up--, and 20 bulls are 1995 points! That's 32 models, all legal, by my count.

Care to share the secret to concoct such a small list?

Col. Dash
26-08-2010, 02:02
12 in a WoC list
Daemon Prince 475 MoN, 100 points of gifts
Throgg
Exalted BSB Doom Totem
3 trolls
3 trolls
2 Dragon ogre Shags with all options.
1 Chaos Giant with MoS
2k

SamVimes
26-08-2010, 02:41
And not nearly enough points spent core...so not legal. You need 12 trolls to break the 500 point core minimum.

Col. Dash
26-08-2010, 02:44
Crap forgot about that, only remembered the 2 unit thing. err

Lazarian
26-08-2010, 03:26
Well you can have just one core unit, it just needs to be at least 25% of the total points.

someone2040
26-08-2010, 03:29
@Beastmen
Can you not put one of your characters on the pumbacart to reduce it by another model. Or do you count mounts and characters seperately. You obviously can't do it with the Tuskgors to keep min core though.

Lazarian
26-08-2010, 03:33
the chariot that you attached to a character would come out of that pool, it just doesnt work out since you only have 500 in lord and 500 in heroes

Arkh
26-08-2010, 05:01
Lazarian beat me to it.

That's what I consider the abolute lowest model count for a legal army... and of course, it had to be Beastmen.

Ah, the days of Nurgle Minos as a legal army... 12 was it!

Now, Arkh, your math is a wee bit off for eight Iron Guts, three butchers, a tyrant--all of them beefed up--, and 20 bulls are 1995 points! That's 32 models, all legal, by my count.

Care to share the secret to concoct such a small list?

Sure can:

1x Tyrant + wizard hat 300
1x Slaughtermaster 200
1x Slave Giant 175
1x Slave Giant 175
1x Maneater 90
3x Bulls FC, IF, LA 179
3x Iron Guts FC + magic banner + gnoblar token 249
3x Iron Gus FC + gnoblar token 199
1x Hunter w/ Magic Item 195
1x Bruiser BSB w/ Magic Banner, HA + gnoblar tokens 234

16 models, 1996 points

Pacorko
26-08-2010, 05:54
Ah! The giants, I keep forgetting those as I like bigger bull units to allow for multiple points for impact.

Nifty, indeed. I might try it, it sure reads like fun times.

Loopstah
26-08-2010, 12:46
so 23 models in a skaven list. Not horrible! Not 13 but still not that many.

That's illegal as you have no Core, Rat Ogres are Special.

Kevlar
26-08-2010, 13:01
Rat ogres are core if you field thrott. Its his special ability as a molder lord.

Orcboy_Phil
26-08-2010, 13:02
Not with Thrott

Edit: Damn Ninjas they get everywhere, where the pirates when you need them.

BorderKing
26-08-2010, 15:15
There's a better Skaven list-
10 Rat Ogres=400
+packmaster that is upgraded to Skweel=108
as it is a champion it counts as a core so 508 core=11 models
+packmaster=8
so 5 Rat ogres and skweel in on unit and 5 and a normal packmaster in another

Throt=225
Greyseer with warpstone scroll=275
Skitch=270
Plague Priest lv2 + pox rat=165+ flail+ luckstone+healing potion +rathound bodyguard=214
2*Hellpit aboms with warpstone spikes=500

Core=516
Rare=500
Lord=500(225+275)
Hero= 484(270+214)

Which gives 18 models

Gandalf the Gay
26-08-2010, 18:40
How about smallest possible in BASE SIZE? Would it still be the Beastmen?

That army is the equivalent of almost 90 infantry modelsat 25x25.

All Infantry HE

Teclis 475

Mage lvl2 + items 185
Noble BSB full kit 208
Noble with some mundane stuff 107 all in all 500pts

4x10 Seaguard, full kit +1magicbanner 645(could be less with maybe 2x10 and 1x15, but i cant be bothred with the math)

10 Swordmasters(or lions or guard) full kit and all magic items 255

and a unit of less kitted elite infantry to fill the rest up.

Thats 64 20x20 bases. Much Smaller than the 13 model Beastmen.

WoC Nurgle army

Nurgle source lord 440
1x nurgle sorc 215
Nurgle Exalted Bsb, doom totem 268

2x10 Nurgle Warriors with Gw and shield, full Command and magic banners 565

8 Nurgle knights with lances Full command and banner of rage 495

31 models, no monsters, no warmachines. Replace the knights with chosen and you have an all infantry army with about 40 models.

39 25x25 bases

Can warriors be equipped with Halberd 2xhw GW AND shield?

fluffystuff
26-08-2010, 20:13
I can do Beastmen in 12.

Core - 7 chariots = 560 points
Lord - Great Bray Shaman on Punbagor Chariot with extras = 342 points
Hero - Wargor on Pumbagor Chariot as BSB with extras = 388 points
Hero - Gorebull =160 points
Rare - any 2 of either Cygor, Ghorgon or Jabberslythe at 175 points each = 550 points

Total of exactly 2000 points with 12 models, and you can easily tweak the lord and hero choices for different options.

SamVimes
26-08-2010, 20:22
I can do Beastmen in 12.

Core - 7 chariots = 560 points
Lord - Great Bray Shaman on Punbagor Chariot with extras = 342 points
Hero - Wargor on Pumbagor Chariot as BSB with extras = 388 points
Hero - Gorebull =160 points
Rare - any 2 of either Cygor, Ghorgon or Jabberslythe at 175 points each = 550 points

Total of exactly 2000 points with 12 models, and you can easily tweak the lord and hero choices for different options.

Which isnt a legal 2000 point list since you go over 500 points in Rare.

Lazarian
26-08-2010, 20:23
I can do Beastmen in 12.

Core - 7 chariots = 560 points
Lord - Great Bray Shaman on Punbagor Chariot with extras = 342 points
Hero - Wargor on Pumbagor Chariot as BSB with extras = 388 points
Hero - Gorebull =160 points
Rare - any 2 of either Cygor, Ghorgon or Jabberslythe at 175 points each = 550 points

Total of exactly 2000 points with 12 models, and you can easily tweak the lord and hero choices for different options.

sadly not legal, 550 points is too much for rare, you have to do giant plus one of the 275 guys to make it 500, plus the hero is too many points too being 548

Harwammer
26-08-2010, 21:15
in 7th you didn't have to try to reach the points limit; you just had to fill the mandatory choices. Is this no longer true? Otherwise 7 chariots + character would suffice.

560 7 chariots
500 2 big guys
Could a chariot mounted great shaman and 2 decked out heroes fill the remaining points for a 12 man army?

For comparison 481 ungor and a bray shaman is the largest model count I can think of for BoC without my book. ... About 40 times as many models!

Gandalf the Gay
26-08-2010, 21:22
in 7th you didn't have to try to reach the points limit; you just had to fill the mandatory choices. Is this no longer true? Otherwise 7 chariots + character would suffice.


<25%Lords
<25%Heroes
>25%Core
<50%Special
<25%Rare

<means less than or equal to
>More than, or equal to
because I cant do the real symbols

You can choose to deploy only ONE core unit, as long as it is big enough. No rare or special choices may be chosen more than 1 per 1000pts

You need a general

It is very diferent from 7th ed.

Jetty Smurf
26-08-2010, 21:53
No rare or special choices may be chosen more than 1 per 1000pts

This is not true.

The limitations on special and rare as as follows for any game 2999 points or less:

Rare - No more than 2 of each unit
Special - No more than 3 of each unit

At 3k+, those numbers are doubled.

The rest of the post is correct (the %'s and requiring a general).


Edit - It's a shame this is for 2k and not say... 2540. Lizardmen have a special character (lord) who can make a single unit of cold one cavalry core. Sadly, however, he costs 635 points.

Gandalf the Gay
26-08-2010, 22:26
This is not true.

The limitations on special and rare as as follows for any game 2999 points or less:

Rare - No more than 2 of each unit
Special - No more than 3 of each unit

At 3k+, those numbers are doubled.

The rest of the post is correct (the %'s and requiring a general).


Edit - It's a shame this is for 2k and not say... 2540. Lizardmen have a special character (lord) who can make a single unit of cold one cavalry core. Sadly, however, he costs 635 points.

Thank you, I was unaware.

I dont understand the Lizard thing though... You would need about 650 points of Cold One Cav, which is... 18 models. Fill up the rest with stegadons, and the Beastmen still beat you by a lot. It could probably make for a quite compact army, though.

Special Character Oldblood Bazookahand on a T-rex
4 Saurus Heroes on Cold Ones
40 or so COC

This army actually has almost the exact same base size as the 13-model 2000pts Beatmen army.

seraphile
27-08-2010, 01:48
just cos i can;

8 models.
7 Tuskgor chariots
1 general (anything you want)

its under the 2000 point limit and completely legal.
quite silly though, but i just couldnt help myself

Stronginthearm
27-08-2010, 02:03
If your going with that i can do 7
Bruiser 130
Irongutsx3 FC Lookout gnoblar 199
Irongutsx3 FC Lookout Gnoblar 199

The bruiser is just barely under 25% of the armies composition of points and therefore still legal

SamVimes
27-08-2010, 05:27
No, you still aren't legal with 398 points of core. You need 500.

Out of curiosity, do characters count for the minimum of 3 units?

Jetty Smurf
27-08-2010, 07:22
I dont understand the Lizard thing though... You would need about 650 points of Cold One Cav, which is... 18 models. Fill up the rest with stegadons, and the Beastmen still beat you by a lot. It could probably make for a quite compact army, though.

Special Character Oldblood Bazookahand on a T-rex
4 Saurus Heroes on Cold Ones
40 or so COC

This army actually has almost the exact same base size as the 13-model 2000pts Beatmen army.

The special char + CoC as core is still more models than the beastmen army. I think we have come to the conclusion that nothing can beat it (and still be as close to 2k points as possible). But it's still fun/interesting to see what can be done with other armies. :)

Besides, at 2540 points, the beastmen have to include at least another model or 2, and so it closes the gap between them and LM (still quite large though).

As for the LM list itself, here's what I came up with for 2540:

Kroq-Gar - 635
Skink Priest L2 EotG + magic items (50) - 440
17 CoC w/ std + mus + magic banner (50) - 675
1 Ancient steg - 275
1 Ancient steg - 275
1 Steg - 235

Total - 2535

22 models in total. Not bad for over 2500 points. But anything less than 2540 means saurus as core, and they aren't expensive enough for this purpose (saurus > skinks/krox since you need 8 skinks per krox, and that comes to 95 pts per 9 models, whereas 9 saurus with spears is 108 points per 9 models).


No, you still aren't legal with 398 points of core. You need 500.

This is true. For a 2k army you need a minimum 500 points worth of core (25%).



Out of curiosity, do characters count for the minimum of 3 units?

What minimum? I'm not sure what you are referring to here.

Technically, the only minimum units you need are 1 for core, and a general. So I guess 2 units minimum per army.

Lazarian
27-08-2010, 07:31
What minimum? I'm not sure what you are referring to here.

Technically, the only minimum units you need are 1 for core, and a general. So I guess 2 units minimum per army.

You need a total of 3 units in your army, with one being your general. Core obviously would count as a second one, the third can be anything legal as long as the points work out.

Jetty Smurf
27-08-2010, 07:44
You need a total of 3 units in your army, with one being your general. Core obviously would count as a second one, the third can be anything legal as long as the points work out.

I didn't even know about that one. Completely missed it when I read through that part of the rules. Thanks. :)

Although, the rule does say the army must include at least 3 units in ADDITION to lords/heroes.

Gandalf the Gay
27-08-2010, 11:04
The special char + CoC as core is still more models than the beastmen army. I think we have come to the conclusion that nothing can beat it (and still be as close to 2k points as possible). But it's still fun/interesting to see what can be done with other armies. :)

Yes, I dont think anyone can beat that, in terms of number of models, unless you argue that a Tuskgor chariot is actually 5 models(2 tuskgors, 2 gors and the chariot). Suddenly you have 47 models, which Im sure can be beaten by Ogre Kingdoms, quite easily.

So, I have proposed that the truly smallest army should be judged by its FOOTPRINT.

I proposed a High Elf army that is significantly smaller and a Nurgle Warriors list HALF THE SIZE of the Beastman Chariot army.

All these armies would fit on a standard IKEA Billy shelf, no doubt about it. But the Nurgle army could fit... probably 5 times.

But noone seems to think this is interesting.

narrativium
27-08-2010, 13:28
If your going with that i can do 7
Bruiser 130
Irongutsx3 FC Lookout gnoblar 199
Irongutsx3 FC Lookout Gnoblar 199

The bruiser is just barely under 25% of the armies composition of points and therefore still legal

Ogres minimum:
Bruiser 130
Bullsx3 extra hand weapons and full command 167
Irongutsx3 standard and champion 189
Irongutsx3 no command 144

630 points, 10 models.