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Khorneguy
26-08-2010, 11:34
I havn't had a game of 8th edition with my DE yet, but i've been pondering my list and was wondering which of these two list ideas would be the most effective


1. Cult of Khaine. Hellebron leading. Lots of MSU units of Witches, backed up by a cauldron, shadowblade and the ASF Banner in a unit of executioners with a smattering of crossbows and bolt throwers

2. Going magic heavy with lots of sorceresses and a fighty lord on dragon, backed up by corsairs and crossbows and bolt throwers, and a unit of COK to sweep round the sides

Which would be the most effective against the widest variety of armies under 8th?

CommissarSean
26-08-2010, 12:12
1. Cult of Khaine. Hellebron leading. Lots of MSU units of Witches, backed up by a cauldron, shadowblade and the ASF Banner in a unit of executioners with a smattering of crossbows and bolt throwers

2. Going magic heavy with lots of sorceresses and a fighty lord on dragon, backed up by corsairs and crossbows and bolt throwers, and a unit of COK to sweep round the sides

Which would be the most effective against the widest variety of armies under 8th?

Firstly mate all the new tactics for the 8th DE are here:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263677

IMO though the 2nd idea would work better. Magic in 8th is nothing short of deadly and used right can be a real game winner.
The bolt throwers i would scrap, they are not as good as in 7th, hydras are the way forward. The only problem you will have is, a lord on dragon, not alot of points left over for sorceresses. :)

Symrivven
26-08-2010, 12:19
1 wouldn't work at least not on a consistent basis. When Hellebron's rules where written it was assumed she could clear her killzone and thus survive, now in 8th she can kill all she want but enemies will strike back and with toughens 3 and no save practically every rank and file can and will kill here. Shadowblade suffers from similar weakness as does an asf deathag.

2 would indeed work better, and don't forget to check out the tactics tread CSean mentioned

Khorneguy
26-08-2010, 12:30
Thanks guys. i'm writing my list atm, so i was looking for a more direct answer than the tactica

As much as i love the idea of a Cult of Khaine, it looks like Sorceresses are the way forward in this edition. I'm going to shelve the cult until i can find a way to make it work

out of interest, why are Bolt Throwers not so good this edition?

I don't have the 8th ed book yet, so it might be glaringly obvious. But just wondering

Symrivven
26-08-2010, 12:45
The main "problem" with "our" bolt throwers is is that they didn't scale up with many of the other units. For example most units got bigger so volley fire has less of an impact, while stone throwers and regular ranged units got boosted with everything it touches is hit and shoot in two ranks/volley respectively. our bolt throwers can still be useful for their singe bolt against characters, warmachines and monsters but for that they are a bit overpriced.

So its not really that they got worse but the rest got better and they where left a bit behind.

But don't worry try a unit of rxbm 2*10 and see your enemy squirm when you collect 40 dice. :)

PeG
26-08-2010, 13:07
"lots of sorceresses " might not be a great idea. Although magic is very powerful in 8th and DE is one of the better armies for magic, potentially even the best army due to the ability of generating additional PD I am not convinced that lots of sorceresses is a good use of points. Definitely a few but not lots.

Khorneguy
26-08-2010, 13:27
@Symrivven: I use my Bolt Throwers for precisely those purposes so i think they'll stay in my list for now

@PeG: I'm thinking of using Lord on Dragon with my Hero choices filled with Sorceresses.

Lordsaradain
26-08-2010, 13:29
MSU is a thing of the past (6th/7th edition) so your first idea isn't really viable.

Lord on Dragon and lots of sorceresses... I'd drop the dragon lord as you cant have both that and a lvl 4. Sacrifical dagger is great. Generally, I say bring big units, not too big, but a unit of 40-50 warriors could certainly work, especially since you have hatred. Infantry units are usually best in at least three ranks, no matter how wide you go, because you want to be able to take some casualties and still strike back with full force.

Hyrda is still great, very cheap and now it has thunderstomp.

Lord of Divine Slaughter
26-08-2010, 13:59
Funny how you base your armies on characters and ask what to be the most effective in an edition where rank and file is the choice of the stars.

Keep your characters low, no more than 25% total and spend lots of points on troops instead. DE has great troops, use them :)

Khorneguy
26-08-2010, 14:10
I think MSU could work with Witch Elves and Hellebron. I put a post up a while back about my ideas to do with their use

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268049

I'm thinking of using a couple of big units of corsairs, maybe two blocks of 30, backed up by two units of 15 crossbows or 1 unit of 30.

I really like the idea of using a dragon. It's one of the reasons i started fantasy in the first place. I'm trying to work out how to fit a Dreadlord on a Dragon into 2000 points

he's 460 without upgrades, leaving me 60 points for magic itemss. Can anyone suggest a reasonable set of kit for him?

Khorneguy
26-08-2010, 14:28
Funny how you base your armies on characters and ask what to be the most effective in an edition where rank and file is the choice of the stars.

Keep your characters low, no more than 25% total and spend lots of points on troops instead. DE has great troops, use them :)

I don't have the money to buy lots of new troops for the new edition, i'm going with what i already have

Haravikk
26-08-2010, 22:03
Cult of Khaine is one I've been looking at as my Skaven horde grows I'm looking at my next army, and am looking for a "challenge" list such as khainite only (excluding sorceresses), the other two are all-mounted Brets (only a single infantry block for watchtower) and chaos warriors only warriors of chaos :)

One list I was looking at was Hellebron, supreme sorceress, sorceress (level 2 + tome of furion), two cauldrons of blood, and pretty much everything else as witch elves (units of 15). It'd be a cool army to field though I suspect it'd be horribly outmatched. With poisoned attacks and lots of 'em Witch Elves do have the capability to hurt pretty much anything they come across. However, they have almost no staying capacity for return damage except if the cauldrons are always heaping on the 5+ Ward Saves, but with two units making combined charges, both with +1 Attack from a Cauldron it may not be so bad, but it'd be all about the flanks.
Supporting magic could help a lot too; with two wizards knowing 3 spells I could guarantee Occam's Mindrazor from Lore of Shadows for one of them, Strength 8 or more on Witch Elves is a pretty appealing prospect, as 5 fighting + 5 supporting, augmented by +1 attacks from a cauldron could give you 25 Strength 8 hits, enough to wipe-out a biggish (non-horde) unit! Field those Witch Elves in ranks of 6 (still unit size of 15) and you have 30 Strength 8 hits if I'm doing my math right! :D
Not impossible to win with properly combined charges and supporting magic, but not an easy army to win with by any means, kind of the point of my little challenge to myself though!

But eh...yeah, that aside, I think a mixed list with plenty of magic is the way to go; bolt throwers seem a bit pointless now as already said. Everything else is pretty much gold, not sure on Cold One cavalry, is it any good for Dark Elves in 8th?

Darktan
27-08-2010, 10:42
not sure on Cold One cavalry, is it any good for Dark Elves in 8th?

yes, in the past 6 games a unit of CoK (5-6) with FC, BoHG + whip of agony on the champ, has killed everything it has touched, including three warshrines, 2 units of chaos knights, 4 units of anvil marauders, khorne BSB on jugger, tzeen BSB with a 3+ ward and re-rollable 1+ AS, 2 units of tzeen chosen with rage banner and halberds, two sorc lords, some trolls.

though i think this unit has soaked up all the good dice rolls for the entire army while my opponent suddenly runs out of his when fighting them. on the flipside though, neither my executioners or blackguard have survived a round of combat yet, your mileage may vary.

(only half of those 6 games were wins though, it seems when my CoK do exceedingly well, i simultaneously fail to use the rest of my army properly)

tmarichards
28-08-2010, 00:19
I've found knights to work really well in units of 6 with full command. I run mine with the Banner of Eternal Flame in orderto hunt abominations/hydras, and also the champion has a Potion of Foolhardiness (when I remember to use it)- this gives him an extra attack onthe charge. With an extra attack from a Cauldron, this unit is very powerful. Also, when fighitng abominations/hydras, don't forget the second rank get a single supporting attack so there's nothing stopping you running them 4x2 when hunting these things as it'll mean they get an attack instead of being off on the sie out of combat. Then once you've killed the beastie, do a combat reform to adjust for whatever is the best formation at that time.