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No-One
27-08-2010, 15:01
how viable are all gobline or mainly goblin armies nowadays in 8th? i've been really strongly considering a very large goblin force mainly nightgoblins, but with forest goblins on their spiders and regular gobbos on their wolves for a little counts-as fun i was contemplating some "weresquig" goblins to represent savage orcs, i've contemplated adding in blackorcs as goblins in steampunk-esque armor, but i'm hesitant on that idea

overall though, how good are goblin-only/goblin-heavy armies right now?

Spiney Norman
27-08-2010, 15:10
how viable are all gobline or mainly goblin armies nowadays in 8th? i've been really strongly considering a very large goblin force mainly nightgoblins, but with forest goblins on their spiders and regular gobbos on their wolves for a little counts-as fun i was contemplating some "weresquig" goblins to represent savage orcs, i've contemplated adding in blackorcs as goblins in steampunk-esque armor, but i'm hesitant on that idea

overall though, how good are goblin-only/goblin-heavy armies right now?

What exactly do you mean "all-goblin". I run a "no-orc" policy, which means I have mostly goblins with the odd giant or unit of trolls and it works fine. Leadership is the biggest problem, but to be honest I do alright most of the time with my Ld 8 warboss and the BSB nearby granting re-rolls.

Dutch_Digger
27-08-2010, 15:13
as long as trolls are allowed your in the clear :p

Vashta
27-08-2010, 15:14
Depends what you mean by "viable". Your not going to win a GT with it, but it is hellishly fun!

No-One
27-08-2010, 15:16
i mean mostly or nearly all goblins only, with anything not goblin being modelled as a counts as equivalent(for example, i plan on a block of 25-30 savage orcs, who will be models as goblin "were-squigs") but or the most part, the army itself i'm wanting to have as mainly goblins, with only maybe a small amount of non-goblin units in the army

are Grom or Snarsnik worth taking?

Urgat
27-08-2010, 15:27
All gob is viable (I include anything non orc as eligible in "all goblin"). I win about half my games with my army (which includes common and night gobs, and river trolls).
Although I've played only one game under 8th, I'm inclined to believe it'll do even better now, because the biggest weakness (psychology) is now largely mitigated.

No-One
27-08-2010, 15:39
oh man, i feel priviledged, Urgat, you're one of the main reasons i'm making this army in the first place!

i have quiet a few ideas for conversions(i'm a convertaholic, so the army will be conversion heavy) i want the army to basically look like a mix-mash of a bunch of different tribes and such, some steampunk elements with some of them, and then some very tribal/primitive feel from the "savage orcs/weresquigs" and the forest gobbos

i was thinking of including Snarsnik/Gobbla in the army just cause i love the model and he's got some pretty sweet rules, and Grom i was considering as well, but his chariot would be something closer to being a steampunk armored suit or something similar

another conversion idea i was contemplating would allow me to include Blackorcs, represented by 4-armed mutant goblins wearing piecemeal armor, they'd all have fanatical looking expressions, and basically represent the one tribe that noone really messes with since they're so brutal and scary, with a larger more imposing four armed gobbo representing Grimgor(should i choose to take him, which i might just to add a little hammer to the force)

general opinions? am i simply a madman? :D

Drongol
27-08-2010, 15:46
I happen to believe than an all-Goblin (or, at least no-Orc) list is indeed viable in 8th and might even be competitive. Thing is, I view Night Goblins are far superior to Common Goblins in every way. The added free 6+ ward and the ability to take Fanatics is far superior to +1 Ld, especially if you're running Skarsnik. And nets are just amazing value for the money. Against strength 4 opponents, you are effectively getting +1 armor save and +1 toughness.

That said, Skarsnik himself isn't amazingly competitive due to his inability to take LoS saves and some gaping ruels questions on him. If you're up against Dwarfs or Empire, just don't expect him to live past turn 1 and you'll be okay--honestly, most of his damage is done prior to the start of the game with his disruption.

I haven't really used Grom much due to not liking the official model and having a thing for Night Goblins. As far as common goblins go, the cavalry is still very nice for war machine ambushing, and the war machines themselves are gold. Take as many Spear Chukkas and Rock Lobbas as you can--I'm less of a fan of Doom Divers, but they're still useful in their place.

Goblin and Night Goblin Big Bosses are also dirt cheap and, with a simple great weapon, can do a decent amount of damage for 34 points. What's not to love?

The biggest issue with playing non-Orc, however, is the simple amount of painting involved. At 2500 points, my (well, technically my wife's) Night Goblin army has somewhere around 250 models. I'm a third of the way through painting them, though, honest!

Spiney Norman
27-08-2010, 16:05
A question about Skarsnik, if you keep him on the edge of a gobbo block, but within 3" of a group of 6 trolls, does he get the 4+ LoS?

Drongol
27-08-2010, 16:09
A question about Skarsnik, if you keep him on the edge of a gobbo block, but within 3" of a group of 6 trolls, does he get the 4+ LoS?

Trolls are Monstrous Infantry. Skarsnik and Gobbla is a Monstrous Beast.

Short answer: no.

Long answer: Oh hell, no.

stompy
27-08-2010, 17:15
I've been playing common goblins and I think with perseverance, they can actually be really good. Don't bother with goblin hordes, he extra ws2 s3 attacks just aren't worth it. Goblin units should be 5 wide, with at least 6 ranks, to keep stubborn. I've been using common goblins with hand weapon and shield, but night goblins would work a lot better (the light armour isn't really worth bothering with), and as others have said, nets are utterly essential for block units of night goblins.

Also, doom divers got a big boost in 8th. They excel at firing indirectly, with their d3" move. Units of 6 trolls are nearly unstoppable, if the opponent has not flaming attacks, but be sure to add a character, or keep them near the general.

Also, I'd love to see someone experiment with a squig horde. That's a LOT of s5 attacks.

Whitehorn
27-08-2010, 17:26
i mean mostly or nearly all goblins only, with anything not goblin being modelled as a counts as equivalent

So, as viable as any other O&G army...

Slayerthane
27-08-2010, 17:27
In 8th I think an all gobbo army is much more viable than it was in either 6th or 7th ed. The O&G magic items list was always rather light on good armor or wardsave items, as well as anything boosting leadership. This has been somewhat improved with the new common items list that is available in 8th.

I think the notoriously low leadership for goblins can be mitigated with some of the new common magic items that came out for 8th ed. In particular, there is the Crown of Command that gives a character stubborn, so goblin units can use his unmodified leadership if within 12", throw in a BSB and you can re-roll break tests.

Then there is the banner of Discipline which can add +1 leadership to a unit. Throw a goblin lord in this unit, even if he's not the general and the unit can have leadership 9. Since gobbos will outnumber just about everyone, they will most likely be steadfast more often than not.

Col. Dash
27-08-2010, 17:55
Its a blast and they have some neat tricks up their sleeves. I do think you should include trolls and giants as well since to me anyway, they are more iconic in a goblin army than they are in an orc army.

Really fun, can be competitive. Just stay away from hoppers, utterly useless this edition.

Jind_Singh
27-08-2010, 18:50
I was all goblin in 7th and now in 8th - all goblin to me is any unit from the O & G book that isn't an orc - so no orcs, boars, bullies, etc. I will take giants and trolls, and snotlings.

An all gobbo army is viable, it works, and they do well. Yesterday I had:

Goblin Warboss
Night Goblin lvl 4 shaman
Goblin BSB

40 Goblins, light armour, sheild, bows, full command
40 Night Goblin Spears, full command, netters
40 Night Goblin Archers, full command, netters, 1 fanatic

6 Night Goblin Squig Herder Teams
2 spear Chukkas

6 Trolls
Giant

I faced:

Lord of Change, MoS
Herald of Tzeentch, spell breaker
Herald of Tzeentch, spell breaker

12 Bloodletters, command
12 Bloodletters, command
35 Pink Horrors, command, icon

5 Fleshounds
5 Fleshounds

1st turn - nothing much happens, 2nd turn he chucks a purple sun that kills 4 trolls, 9 Squig herd/squigs, my BSB, my Warboss......OUCH!
My turn 3 my shaman miscast and blew his head off. 30 Spears and chariot killed fleshounds, but nearby another chariot was destroyed by fleshounds - panic failed by my spears who fled over the common gobbos who also fled....At this point the demon player has only lost his fleshounds, another unit was savaged, 4 bloodletters, 3 horrors...

By the end of the game he had just his 2 units of Bloodletters...everything else was wiped out by my horde! I still had my giant, 1 chariot, archers, common gobbo archers!! Epic! All in my last turn as well!

So the all Goblin army is very much viable...but is it fun? This is my dilemma - I am thinking no.....

In 7th the Goblins were decent - they were underdogs, but at the same time placed in the hands of a kunnin Warboss would wreak havoc - they were full of tricksy tricks and nasty surprises - pipes of doom with the horn of Urgok combo, brimstone bauble to name just a few of their toys. They had annoying fast cav who were cheap and effective at baiting units, snotlings were a mainstay of any force as for 40pts you got 2 bases of pure nasty lil buggers! The little Waaagh spells were excellent, and our beloved Squigs would be able to wreak havoc!

But 8th has changed all of that - we've become respectable now, we use large blocks of Goblins and wear down the enemy through attrition, we've become more serious and grown up! You can't frustrate the foe with sneaky ticks and schemes as most of our combos were tricky to pull off (1st we have to blow the horn of urgok, THEN we have to hope there's enough cav/chariots within the pipes range, and THEN we have to hope they fail their ld test!). But with the new BSB re-rolls it's not going to happen!
Our fast cav can still be used to re-direct enemy but they can't! In a new game were just 100vps means the difference between loss/defeat we can no longer throw away units to their doom for the greater good of the little waaagh - so we have to play more protective tactics to keep our guys alive. Spells of the little Waaagh aren't as hot either now, Big Waaagh is way more functional - But I must admit Mork will fix it is solid now!
So while the All Goblins have become better in terms of they can actually whittle armies down and win through sheer numbers/attrition, they are a more grown-up and mature army now - and I miss the immature style of play they once had - There was nothing better than charging a unit of Goblins into a unit like white lions and breaking them! And then I would joyously shout..

GOBLINS! GOBLINS FOR THE WIN!!

Now we almost know we'll win over time as the enemy just can't kill us faster than we can kill them!

So I am thinking about going back to mixed Orcs and Goblins - as they both feel similar now in their game play, except the Orcs are a bit tougher and have better WS.

But don't let this discourage you, this is from someone who played almost exclusively Gobbos in 7th and is missing the flavor of his army, i just need more time perhaps to readjust - or perhaps take a break from them and come back to them.

One thing is for sure though - the actual list building for Goblins is SO GOOD! There's just so much you can pack into an army it's not even funny! And the models are fantastic, and everyone loves playing against them so don't be put off by the above!

T10
27-08-2010, 19:57
So, as viable as any other O&G army...

: snicker : How true!

-T10

Brother Alexos
27-08-2010, 19:57
If you do run an all-gobbo army, keep in mind the Horde rule, it will help. If you looked at the WD with the 8th edition battle report, a unit of 40 gobbos can inflict somewhere between 15-20 hits, and has the unbreakable special rule.

Urgat
27-08-2010, 21:43
oh man, i feel priviledged, Urgat, you're one of the main reasons i'm making this army in the first place!

Her... dunno if it's a priviledge that I answer someone's post :p
But nice way to over-inflate my ego even more :p

Drongol
27-08-2010, 23:21
If you do run an all-gobbo army, keep in mind the Horde rule, it will help. If you looked at the WD with the 8th edition battle report, a unit of 40 gobbos can inflict somewhere between 15-20 hits, and has the unbreakable special rule.

They're actually quite far from unbreakable, and 40 goblins in horde formation will lose their steadfast quite quickly. It's typically "better" to deploy them deep and slowly grind away, but the horde formation does have its uses, particularly in units of 50 or more.

Actually, I quite like 50 NGs in a single unit. It means they can use the same movement tray when ranked up horde and normal.

My (wife's) NG army, at 2500 points, is something like this:

Skarsnik

Lvl 4 w/Staff of Sorcery

Lvl 1 w/Staff of Sneaky Stealin'

BSB w/Spider Banner

Big Boss on Giant Cave Squig w/Wollopa's and Charmed Shield

6-8 (I forget) Big Bosses with GW

3 units of 50 (footprint) w/2 Fanatics, Netters, and FC

3 units of 20 w/Short Bows and 1 Fanatic

6 Spear Chukkas

2 Rock Lobbas

4 Squig Herds (1 unit)

8 Squig Hoppers

By "footprint," I mean that there are 50 20x20 bases in the unit. So a unit with Skarsnik, a BSB, and 2 Big Bosses (for example) would only have 41 NGs including full command. And so on. The Shamans run outside of the units and rely on a 4+ LoS to protect them from nastiness.

Typically, it plays almost like a gunline. The war machines and short bows do their thing while the large infantry blocks stay well back. If a unit squabbles, big deal. If they charge forward, they spend the movement phase going back to where they were supposed to go.

The Squig Hoppers are suboptimal, I know, but she wants lots and lots of Squigs, and they're cute.

burad
28-08-2010, 05:38
I think y'all have convinced me to keep the gobbos I haven't started painting yet.