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Nemesis7884
28-08-2010, 11:48
how usefull do you think is the doomwheel? i am starting a skaven army - never played, and am quite new to the game so i think it is kinda pricey for what it does? the hpa altough more expensive seems to be more point efficient?

NixonAsADaemonPrince
28-08-2010, 12:17
I'd go with the HPA (or two), I prefer them to doomwheels and I'd say they are a bit more competitive, but doomwheels aren't far behind.

Cjwee
28-08-2010, 12:19
why not get both? The HPA and the doomwheel combo is perhaps 1 of the cheesiest out there and lets you handle both kinds of enemies (HPA vs blocks for sheer killing power, and doomwheel vs monsters)

Nemesis7884
28-08-2010, 12:28
well i am planning for a 2000-2250 points army (see my army list thread) so both is too pricey if i want to have a bell... if i up to 2500 points i have to consider if i shall get some jezzails, gut runnres or a doomwheel

Putty
28-08-2010, 12:57
how usefull do you think is the doomwheel? i am starting a skaven army - never played, and am quite new to the game so i think it is kinda pricey for what it does? the hpa altough more expensive seems to be more point efficient?

mirror match.

who wins?

btw HPA gets my vote because you never lose control of its movement.

Haravikk
28-08-2010, 13:03
I dunno about useful, but the Doomwheel is an awesome kit and brilliant fun to play with or against because it's so damned unpredictable and basically just the most Skaven thing you can field.

HPA is good from a collecting perspective as without an official model you can go crazy with your own conversion. Personally I imagine it is a fusing of two or three rat ogres, bit tricky with the metal kits but if the Island of Blood ogres are a sign of things to come then you may have plastic kits soon to play with :)

Nemesis7884
28-08-2010, 14:10
well hpa will get a model within the next 6-9 months and yeah, thats why i'd love to bring in the doomwheel, cause its so pure skaven lol...but the hpa seems just so much better, more predictable, regeneration, unit killer...hmmm

Citadel97501
28-08-2010, 14:28
I have been playing for a while, and frankly I hate that damn doom wheel, but I have not had the Privilege, (Horror?), of facing a HPA.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
28-08-2010, 15:06
well hpa will get a model within the next 6-9 months and yeah, thats why i'd love to bring in the doomwheel, cause its so pure skaven lol...but the hpa seems just so much better, more predictable, regeneration, unit killer...hmmm

Not 6-9 months, rather more like 4-5 months, it's coming in January.

Putty
28-08-2010, 15:19
I have been playing for a while, and frankly I hate that damn doom wheel, but I have not had the Privilege, (Horror?), of facing a HPA.

I have. Countless times.

If you can't magic/cannon/justkillitsbloodyarse it by turn 2... when he hits your line, its pretty much over coz he will just go on a rampage until the rest of the Skaven army arrives.

Shake your head if your opponent brings 2.

I had the thing die and come back with 3 -4 -5 wounds or leave behind a bunch of rats to continue killing the rest of my army.

then again, i killed quite a number with my great cannons so its all not that bad right?

wrong... i only killed them because they failed their bloody regen rolls.

It has impact hits, random special attacks (ALL GOOD), stubborn, 6 wounds, regen and now thunder stomp!

i give my congratulations to EDIT Jeremy Vetock for creating the most powerful rare choice in warhammer fantasy.

all you guys who whine about the steam-tank? you guys obviously never faced two HPAs before. let alone 1 that now can be backed with 2 doomwheels at 2500 pts.

russellmoo
28-08-2010, 15:33
I run a dual doomwheel list, because I couldn't find the points to field both a doomwheel and an HPA.

If you want to play and win tournaments bring 2 HPA's. If you want to have fun games, where players won't hate your list- bring doomwheels.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
28-08-2010, 15:44
i give my congratulations to robin cruddance for creating the most powerful rare choice in warhammer fantasy.


I think it was Jeremy Vetock. But your point still stands ;).

Nemesis7884
28-08-2010, 15:47
argh skaven has just so many choices...its hardly possible to bring a bell a hpa and a doomwheel within 2000 points...with 2500 its possible but also tight...and i kinda like the fluff from the wheel more lol...cause i somehow think i will not like the model for the hpa (judging from the artwork and description) maybe im wrong...the new models from the book look all nice altough a bit cartoony (that seems to be the way gw is heading in general...not to my liking but)...we'll see...
you need to give the skaven at least one hard hitting unit... ogres are shot away before they arrive anywhere and the dw well..if it arrives... so... :-) but honestly, instead of a hpa, i'd rather had some kind of exoskelet wearing elite unit or some kind of skaven dreadnought (something more techi than mutati lol)

and it will only be the strongest until the next greenskin book when they will introduce the squiggoth to warhammer fantasy

Putty
28-08-2010, 15:51
I think it was Jeremy Vetock. But your point still stands ;).

Thanks for the reminder! Edited for accuracy.

It was a Freudian slip.

I still haven't recovered from what Cruddance did to the Tyranid codex, which needless to say went the other way of what a HPA is.

:wtf:

Nemesis7884
28-08-2010, 16:13
maybe they are constantly nerving and buffing armies with every new book simply that people will have an incentive to collect more armies...one gets nerved, they are annoyed and start collecting something else...maybe they are not selling enough skaven and wanted to make them more interesting... i think the dynamics are good...makes games always different, always something new... are there any statistics on the sales of different armies?

NixonAsADaemonPrince
28-08-2010, 17:08
Thanks for the reminder! Edited for accuracy.

It was a Freudian slip.

I still haven't recovered from what Cruddance did to the Tyranid codex, which needless to say went the other way of what a HPA is.

:wtf:

No probs. I think Robin must have been told to nerf Nids after he turned Guard into the vendetta/melta vet list of doom. I like that codex though, good fun on the variety basis (and I'd say the same about the Nids one, points costs just needed to be lower in places).

Justicar Valius
28-08-2010, 17:26
If you want to play and win tournaments bring 2 HPA's. If you want to have fun games, where players won't hate your list- bring doomwheels.

Agreed, i see doomwheels and know they are good choices but they are imensely skaven. I have never had to face HPAs as I dont play in tourneys (leagues at the GW, but those are nice and relaxed).

HPA is a better choice if you are going FTW

Talash
28-08-2010, 21:23
The Hellpit Abomination (and other large, regenerating gribblies) is the reason why I have a "throwaway" unit of 5 Cold One Knights with the flaming banner.

Thankfully I never ran into one before I decided to invest in the unit, but the one time I did (he was running two; I'd call him a bastard but I have two hydras) I was thankful. With the +1 A from the Cauldron they killed one whilst the other was hacked to bits by a horde of Witches.

My lizardmen fear them though, utterly horrible units to have work against you in pairs. The Doomwheel isn't bad by any means, it's just outclassed by the HPA due to its comparitively low points cost. If it were 50-75 points more I think it would be a little fairer on the Doomwheel.

enygma7
28-08-2010, 21:46
They have different roles. The HPA is a juggernaut unit - you point, click and dish out the damage which has been enchanced further by the 8th ed thunderstomp rules. The doomwheel can also do some heavy hitting with its impact hits but it's nowhere near as good as the HPA at this. Its main use is the lightning it unleashes. Because each shot hits automatically and does d6 wounds it is an ideal (if unreliable) way of killing multi wound lone models like enemy monsters - something which the rest of the army isn't so hot on. It also manoeuvres a little easier because it can pivot once during a charge and as many times as it wants normally.

Both also have the plus points of 360 degree charges, not allowing a charge reaction and pursuing 3d6 which makes them great for running down units from combat.

The HPA is more powerful and more direct (thus easy to use) but also more points. Personally the sheer skavenyness of the doomwheel and its great model is one of the main reasons I play skaven. Its also well worth its points tag.

Kevlar
28-08-2010, 22:04
It is pretty simple. Doomwheel for killing big nasties, stuff that would probably take out the hell pit in a single combat phase (greater demons, dragon lords, etc).

Hell pit for wrecking expensive units of troops.

w3rm
29-08-2010, 01:50
Dont bring the HPA! Bring WLC and Plagueclaws and Doomwheels! Theyre much funner and more tactical then point and shoot!

havoc626
29-08-2010, 02:37
I much prefer taking Doomwheel over the HPA, as the HPA has one very obvious and (kind of) exploitable weakness. Fire.

HPA just shouts 'Cannon? Bring it on! Peasant with flaming stick? Run away!'

Doomwheel on the other hand is a lot more fun with not having to avoid a single thing like the plague, and just be wary of things it shouldn't be taking on.

Plus, who doesn't want a massive hamster wheel squashing the entire enemy line?

Exodus2013
29-08-2010, 03:13
I'd say take 2 Doom Wheel's and a HPA if you are running a mobile army. Personally my favorite rare choice is the Plague Claw Catapult, I love that 5" blast template with no armor saves and causes panic tests from even a single wound. Only S2 but when it hits you will be getting plenty of chances to roll some 6's. I'd also say the majority of armies will be taking large units of T3 troops as well so you can just annihilate them with the catapult.

Nemesis7884
29-08-2010, 06:45
when fielding a 2000 pts army the problem is there are simply not the points for 2 dwheels...

i am wondering if -regardless of the enemy as a default list" - i should rather go for a hpa or a doomwheel in combo with a wlc or catapult

the hpa is somehwat usefull against everybody, the wlc/catapult are a bit less usefull regarding stormbanner but better against heavy infantry units (when the stormbanner doesnt make sensse anyway)... the catapult is the better option against "usual suspects" toughness 3 armies...lol i think an empire player would be pretty shocked seing his complete regiment of knights just being terminated by a single catapult shot

w3rm
29-08-2010, 19:25
Yeah I really need to get me a plagueclaw. But my army is pretty skryre heavy with a touch of moulder so it doesnt really fit.

Nemesis7884
29-08-2010, 19:43
time to start a plaque army...

w3rm
29-08-2010, 23:13
Oh dont tempt me....

R3pr3ssor
30-08-2010, 01:37
I played against 2 HPAs the other day. they were pretty tough, but anything flaming screws them over. there is a flaming attacks banner that is now available for anyone (unless I am totally confuses), and it is very worth it.

I wouldn't say they are the best rare choice in the game. for the same points you get 3 salamanders, and they are simply so effective it is ridiculous.

havoc626
02-09-2010, 09:26
Yeah I really need to get me a plagueclaw. But my army is pretty skryre heavy with a touch of moulder so it doesnt really fit.

Convert one and make it look like a massive poison globe mortar.