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pringles978
28-08-2010, 18:14
hi guys

was just wondering what kind of stuff you think should go into a planetery defence force army? im building a few small, narrative based armies (genestealer cult, chaos coven etc) and wondering what limits on unt choices to set from codex guard. ive got a lord commisar for an arbite commander and veterans for arbite squads, then standard platoons for pdf. im just not sure about the vehicles used. obviously, manticores, vendettas, hellhounds and the like are out, but what about standard russes and sentinels?

basically, im trying to build some armies for an almost roleplay esque campaign leading to a nid invasion.

i know theres probably an IAXXX list out there, but id like to keep it to the guard book if possible (with a few inquisitorial units if needed)

input greatly appreciated!

Lord Damocles
28-08-2010, 19:23
'All planets with a sizable population in the Imperium have their own Planetary Defence Force. The only real difference between Planatary Defence regiments and normal Imperial Guard regiments is that planetary forces may not have access to certain types of specialised troops or equipment, so make up for this by fielding local auxiliary troops.'
Codex: Armageddon, pg.30

For the Armageddon PDF this meant no Ogryns, Ratlings, Rough Riders, Deathworld Sentinels, Vanquishers or Exterminators (and all open-topped vehicles had to take an armoured crew compartment). In exchnage, they gained access to Hive Gang Militia (yay...).
Depending on the planet in question, you could have basicly whatever you wanted to have in a PDF force.

AndrewGPaul
28-08-2010, 19:43
"obviously, manticores, vendettas, hellhounds and the like are out"

Why? It all depends on what sort of world this PDF force is from. If it's a reasonably industrial world, it's not impossible that it can supply those vehicles to its own PDF.

There's nothing really (other than possibly Psykers* and some of the Regimental Advisors) that you couldn't use. I'd probably leave out the Leman Russ Vanquisher and Executioner, as they're stated to be rare and only built at one Forge World.

In fact, depending on the planet, the PDF could be better equipped than a generic Imperial Guard regiment, which usually gets re-equipped en route. Stuff like exotic heavy weapons (plasma cannon, multi-meltas), wheeled, hover or walking tanks and other armoured vehicles, unusual infantry formations (jump pack-equipped assault squads, for instance) and the like.

*Unless you want your army to be the personal guard of a rogue psyker, I suppose.

Duckf@ce
28-08-2010, 20:00
it would most probably contain large amounts of foot soldiers (basic gaurd) transports for them (chimera) and many many leman russ battle tanks. perhaps even chimera pattern vehicles used for anti-aircraft. it also depends on what type of planet there working on. for instance, on a jungle like planet they wont have as many heavy equipped tanks and/or vehicles, everything will be stripped down and such.

KingDeath
28-08-2010, 20:52
Depends entirely on the world.

As a rule of thumb i would say that a world's PDF is not substantially worse equipped than the Guard regiments which hail from that world.
I mean, if your world has the technology and industrial capacity to build Chimeras and Leman russ tanks then why only equip your tithed regiments with them?
Of course, there might be some differences. Perhaps it is possible to mechanise a bunch of guard regiments while doing the same for the entire PDF would be too expensive. The same can be said for certain high tech weapons like plasmaguns. But when it comes to the basic stuff i think that Guard regiment and PDF regiment can more or less field the same toys.

Eetion
28-08-2010, 21:55
But of course you can start to take into account the Worlds Governor, is he corrupt and is the PDF ill equipeped and provided, the funds allocated to more 'sordid' affairs of the Governor?
Or is he dilligent and pious, with well equipped troops and forces.

SultanBaal
28-08-2010, 22:43
Also to take in account is the location of the world. Is it a key system on the fringe or near the Eye. Fortress and Forge worlds would have more acess to advanced equipment. While a world or system away from the front lines that hasnt been attacked in a while would have older equipment i would imagine.

Commissar Vaughn
28-08-2010, 23:28
One thing Id say is that PDFs are likely to be as well equipped as the Guard, however I suspect your less likely to see STC designs: the Forge Worlds hold on tight to these and there are many reasons why a given planets defence force might not get access to them.

For eg: distance; it might take centuries for a consignment of tanks/weapons to arrive, Politics; the Mechanicus are a law unto themselves in this regard, Demand; the Guard probably get priority delivery, and theres plenty of others who need them!

As a result I suspect a lot of regiments will be initially equipped with localy made tanks and equipment (and would usually be requipped with STC equipment on tithing to the Guard): these may be simply a variation of STC designs or a locall designed equivalent! So I wouldnt discount any of the options in the Guard list, but be a bit more flexible with your choice of models.

With my own Guard Armoured Company all my tanks are scratchbuilt: The fluff behind it says that "During the 3rd War for Armageddon regiments from all over the sector were drafted in in large numbers at short notice; there wasnt the time or tanks to reequip all of them and the administratum found itself with the logistical problems caused by having to provide fuel, spares and ammo for a broader spectrum of vehicle types than usual. Where possible losses were replaced STC designs but after the main Ork threat was diminished the Guard was still lumbered with hundreds of tanks of various obscure designs, that it couldnt replace and couldnt afford to simply get rid of. In a stroke of uncharacteristic pragmatism the Administratum dumped the whole lot onto one regiment in an effort to reduce the supply problem, and had the mechanicus assign some of its more liberal minded members to it where they could tinker happily away and stop causing theological problems..."

Does that give you any ideas?

pringles978
28-08-2010, 23:47
thanks guys, its given me something to think about... the planet is sort of like mega city 1 on a larger scale for those that know 2000ad, and to those that dont its a collection of small hive cities surrounded by nuclear wasteland.

i think im avoiding artillery, valks/vendetta, russ varients (may convert some russes) rough riders, abhumans and psy battle squads.

a core of infanty platoons, carpace veterans for arbites in chimeras and penal leigon for gangers should be ok, may use some sentinels as ive got 9 of the things lying round from last edition... and possibly a devil dog or two representing foam crowd controll vehicles.

should be interesting to build/convert, but the real challenge is going to be the allied Ecclesiarchy army from the witch hunters codex with cawdor gangers as frateris militia...

Damage,Inc.
29-08-2010, 10:38
I would severely restrict things like plasma and melta guns for any but an industrialized hive world or forge world. Also, while lasguns are the signature weapon of the Guard, I'd go more to projectile weapons with a PDF. This is really just a stylistic thing to keep them unique looking. Also projectile weapons can be made by many levels of society while lasguns require more complex machining.

Leman Russ tanks are everywhere, and were based off an STC for tractors, so they would be common. Most of the varients would not be common, however, as their IA entries often list them as being very rare examples of specific forgeworlds.

PDFs can contain units the Guard doesn't use- anti-grav coaches, bizarre tanks, things that are complex to produce or use and would be difficult for the Guard to replace.

No psychers, tho. Psychers should be limited to Guard only units as most rogue psychers are hunted down and eliminated. Of course, perhaps the rogue psycher is the reason yourPDF are becoming bad guys...

The Devourer
29-08-2010, 13:54
PDF vary depending on the planet, and the role of the PDF. On normal worlds they would probably be like an IG foot slogging army. They could well have some special weapons as the ones they have are less likely to get destroyed or lost in battle. On hive worlds the PDF could be equal to a normal or elite IG army, with lots of tanks and powerful weapons.

How high up the regiment of PDF is also matters. The elite guard/army of the governor will be a lot better trained and equiped than the normal guys.

In Ravenor Returned (I think) they face a hive world governor's private army and they are far better equiped and trained than normal IG. They all have hellguns and lots of special weapons. They also use powerful psykers (probably too many for the fluff).

Shadow Marine
29-08-2010, 14:17
I don't think the arbites would have much to do with the PDF. From what I have read they tend to keep at arms length from everyone else. So unless he was the last imperial commander on the planet I don't think an arbites judge would command the PDF. At a stretch maybe have 1 squad as a vets squad but that's it really.
Regarding equipment it does depend what tech level the planet is.

spetswalshe
29-08-2010, 14:31
It depends on the situation; in the final stages of an insurrection I would expect most Arbites commanders to take total control over the remaining PDF troops. However, I wouldn't expect them to be taking commanding roles at all times; a PDF general would probably make a better commander than an Arbites judge without similar military leadership training.

Personally, I'd keep a PDF force as a less 'balanced' version of a Guard army. While in the background a Guard regiment is as unbalanced as possible - all infantry, all armour, all artillery and so on - in practice they're usually a workable mix of the three. In my opinion a PDF force would be based on a world's output and situation. So I'd keep a hive-world PDF as almost entirely infantry, supported by armoured transports, with weapon emplacements taking the role of artillery. A death-world PDF might be fully armoured but massively skewed in favour of Hellhounds, flamer transports and VTOL aircraft, with hardly any main battle tanks or artillery - while a frontier fortress-world might be almost entirely long-ranged, immobile artillery and defensive weapons, with very little infantry or armour apart from a few specialised stormtrooper interdiction death-squads.

Also I second the projectile-weapon idea; nothing screams PDF more than an autogun, with it's own cottage industry focused entirely on equipping the militia.

Post
29-08-2010, 16:10
Why would arbites be better than PDF soldiers at war? They are paramilitary troops, they run around with shotguns and big ass shields. Their mandate, equipment and training is radically different.

marv335
29-08-2010, 16:56
I used to run a low tech PDF force, I used chemical propellant weapons only.
Autoguns, Autocannons, Grenade Launchers, Missile launchers, Flamers.
Basic Leman Russ, Hellhounds and Chimeras.
Things I would avoid are
Stormtroopers,
Ratlings,
Ogryns,
Rough Riders,
Valkyries
All the advisors (barring priests)

The Devourer
29-08-2010, 17:01
Arbites are much better than the average PDF. While some rich planets have a PDF which is about the same most are not as well trained or equiped. Arbites are not the police force that everyone seems to think they are. While they have similarities they are highly trained soldiers. They intervene when the PDF isn't enough to stop minor rebelions or when the PDF itself rebels. From a human perspective arbites are very scary. In one of the ravenor books a mercenary (I think) sets some mechanical hunting creatures (similar to the things arbites use) on some people and it tears them apart. Arbites specialise in fighting humans and their tactics are heavily based on inspiring fear to crush rebelion. Against aliens, in a proper war they aren't so powerful.

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
29-08-2010, 17:21
Since this is for a narrative campaign you are setting up, you can almost do whatever you want.

A few things I would keep inmind when designing your force:

What weapons and equipment can be locally produced?

advanced worlds: autoguns, lasguns, heavy stubbers, gernade launchers, flamers, autocannons, missle launchers, mortars, frag gernades, krak gernades, frak armour

highly industrial worlds: carapace armour, meltaguns, chimera chasis based tanks

Both types probably produce their own form of battle tanks. In the Ultramarine novels, the PDf on the world of Pavonis was noted for having Battle Tanks built in the style of Leman Russes, but of inferior design. If you wanted to incorporate this into your campaign, you could use LRBT's, but drop the lumbering behemoth rule. Maybe even drop the armour down to 13/12/10. The points would have to be adjusted down accordingly.

You could also equip your platoons with weapons Guard don't normally use. Heavy Stubbers are a good example and gives you a modeling oppurtunity to create heavy stubber teams. I think 5pts would be a fair cost.

I would also use conscripts to represent "reserve" pdf forces that are mobilized during an invasion.

Ville
30-08-2010, 12:07
Well, I would probably try to keep things as simple as possible, and just remove all Navy units from the list. Then I would have more time for scenarios, narrative etc.

I have been thinking about having fun with a Genestealer cult army sometimes, and my initial idea has been to use Guard codex, with Valkyries and Officer of The Fleet scratched out, 0-1 Fast Attack and Heavy Support and Genestealers added as elites.

Lupe
30-08-2010, 13:02
Well, the way I see it a PDF is probably well equipped and well supplied, with no significant difference from an IG regiment there. The difference is in the men and women.

A PDF infantryman will be wearing roughly the same grade of flak armour and firing the same pattern of lasgun as a guardsman from another nearby planet. But the guardsman will perform better almost every time. For example, the PDF trooper will practice marksmanship in a firing range. The guardsman will be shooting at real targets who are really angry for being shot at.

A PDF regiment might have access to more than just standard infantry, of course. They might have Sentinels, or heavy weapons, or hellhounds, or even artillery. But the sentinel pilots will be less aggressive. The heavy gunners won't be as accurate, and they'll be slower to lock on priority targets. The artillery will lack trained spotters. The serving crews will calculate trajectories slower than guardsmen.

Because quite simply the best way to improve a soldier's performance is to make him fight for his survival.

Col. Tartleton
30-08-2010, 13:23
Basically anything that we've had from WW2-Now would be fine in a PDF. Guard squads with auto/lasguns grenade launchers, autocannons, and missile launchers and flamers. No plasma or melta though. That should be limited to guard regiments unless your PDF is from a forgeworld or somewhere that makes or trades in them. Probably chimera chassis heavy rather then Leman Russes. Not that they couldn't build Leman Russes on a run of the mill world, they could, but I don't like them. :)

Gorbad Ironclaw
30-08-2010, 14:35
Also projectile weapons can be made by many levels of society while lasguns require more complex machining.


Not really. If you look at necromunda Lasguns were both cheap and common. Slightly more expensive than Autoguns but not that much and for an organisation the size of your average PDF it's likely to work out cheaper in the long run with rechargeable ammo packs and less maintenance (few if any moving parts).

The thing about the Guard is that it's really not that well equipped. It got good serviceable equipment, but for the most parts it's all standard stuff. Any world with a reasonable tech level (modern or better) would be able to outfit there PDF to be virtually identical to a Guard regiment. The details of the various designs might be a bit different but essentially it will be the same.

In fact I think often times you could see PDF forces that was better equipped than your average Guard regiment. Since they don't have to comply with any other logistical structure than there own it's possible to equip them with all manner of limited and specialised equipment that it would be impractical to issue to Guard units.

On the topic of psychers, yes, rogue psychers of a level that's useful on a battlefield is rare. But there is no real reason why it would have to be a rogue psycher. While not common psychers are not impossible to get hold of for a planetary governor and a well founded PDF could quite easily have psychic support.
I also don't see why they couldn't have Plasma or Melta weapons. Especially Melta weapons as I don't remember them ever being described as being especially rare. And while Plasma weapons have been described as rare(er), especially the more specialised kinds if they are common/cheap enough that you can hand them out to random Guard forces they are certainly available to a PDF if they want them (or rather, want to pay for them).

It really all comes down to what sort of tech and founding level you envision your PDF to have. Anything could work, including much more high tech/elite forces than what you see the Guard using.

AndrewGPaul
30-08-2010, 14:54
Not really. If you look at necromunda Lasguns were both cheap and common.

Never mind lasguns. Plasma cannon, meltaguns and power weapons are apparently sufficiently common that they can either be built in the underhive or 'lost' from production lines in the Hive City fairly easily.

Lupe
30-08-2010, 15:44
Never mind lasguns. Plasma cannon, meltaguns and power weapons are apparently sufficiently common that they can either be built in the underhive or 'lost' from production lines in the Hive City fairly easily.

I wonder if the fact that they keep 'getting lost' has anything to do with the rarity of those items :)

AndrewGPaul
30-08-2010, 17:06
I used to think that when I played 2nd edition 40K. It seemed unfair that Genestealer Cult armies could field heavy plasma guns, Mole Mortars, Land Speeders and other goodies, while my Imperial Guard could not. I eventually decided that the cultists had stolen all the good stuff.

Iuris
30-08-2010, 17:48
I feel that when discussing PDF we often forget that while they don't get extra support in the form of imperial technology, they do have only one world to protect and that means they have equipment specifically adapted to that world.

They may lack chimeras and heavy artillery, but may well all have cleats to walk on icy regions, for example. Or skis, or extra socks for jungles and so on. They may lack lasguns, but may have autoguns that are even better protected from the desert sand they work in. Or resistant to toxic corrosives from the toxic wastes.

For an example: Dark heresy describes a world where you get settlements HANGING FROM THE CEILING of caverns. So, PDF in that city would have all kinds of hooks for climbing there and dark visors to let them fight in the environment and similar.

Erwos
30-08-2010, 18:03
I would say that the Krieg list does, on the whole, does a terrific job of representing competent PDF troops.

Think about it: these guys are fighting for their planet. There's nowhere to fall back to. They're going to be stubborn and rally. They'll have access to fixed (defensive) artillery, but might be short on the more modern stuff. Chances are, they won't be heavily mechanized (no Chimeras) because any that they produced has been shipped offworld.

The only things that make less sense in the Krieg list are the engineers and the WS4. No one's forcing you to use engineers. The WS4, well, maybe these guys are just good in close combat because of their planet's natural culture.

As for the "projectile weapons vs lasguns", remember that projectile guns require a much larger supply line due to ammo constraints. Lasguns, on the other hand, have power cells that can be recharged in the sun. If you're equipping untold billions of troops, you want the gun that doesn't require much logistics.

The PDF, on the other hand, would be assumed to have a more firm logistical setup, and might find the ammo requirements for shotguns and autoguns acceptable.

totgeboren
30-08-2010, 19:13
I don't know if you have decided on what kind of PDF you want, but these are my thoughts.

First of, the local tech-level could very well be that the most fitting thing would be Squadrons of Heavy Gravtanks, represented by Devil Dog-type Hellhounds. The troops could be transported by Valkyres as standard, and the troops well drilled and well equipped.

Or they could be really basic, where the best they can muster is big trucks with quad-autocannons at the back (count-as Hydras), as militia-type heavy support. Maybe some Griffons, and an improvised heavy artillery piece modified into an assault gun (Medusa).

But if you are going for a Mega City type world, I think they would have access to just about everything except Ogryn, Stormtroopers (you could reason these in, but these guys are the best of the best, and they don't really belong in a PDF), psychers (risky, and somewhat specialised. Not what you would expect in a PDF), Deathstrike missile launcher. Well, they could have one, but really, I can't see the local Arbites dealing with an angry mob by launching an ICBM at them...

Your PDF would probably only really have stuff that would be useful in suppressing fairly lightly armed and armoured opposition. Flamers, grenade launchers, heavy bolters, snipers, mortars, missile launchers and autocannons are what I would expect to see.
Plasma guns are expensive, and really, when would you need a plasma gun as an Enforcer? Meltaguns are the same. I think meltabombs are alot cheaper, and would do the job just as well as the gun.
Same with lascannons. When would you need a lascannon if all you are facing is reinforced civilian vehicles at worst?

Ofc, all this is only appropriate if your PDF is indeed only facing light infantry and light vehicles. If heavier stuff started showing up, I'm sure there are a few meltaguns and plasma guns stored in a top-security military installation somewhere. They are supposed to be the first line of defence against an alien raid or invasion, and they are supposed to be equipped well enough to be able to get the job done until reinforcements can arrive, which might be never.

KingDeath
30-08-2010, 22:30
I don't know if you have decided on what kind of PDF you want, but these are my thoughts.

First of, the local tech-level could very well be that the most fitting thing would be Squadrons of Heavy Gravtanks, represented by Devil Dog-type Hellhounds. The troops could be transported by Valkyres as standard, and the troops well drilled and well equipped.

Or they could be really basic, where the best they can muster is big trucks with quad-autocannons at the back (count-as Hydras), as militia-type heavy support. Maybe some Griffons, and an improvised heavy artillery piece modified into an assault gun (Medusa).

But if you are going for a Mega City type world, I think they would have access to just about everything except Ogryn, Stormtroopers (you could reason these in, but these guys are the best of the best, and they don't really belong in a PDF), psychers (risky, and somewhat specialised. Not what you would expect in a PDF), Deathstrike missile launcher. Well, they could have one, but really, I can't see the local Arbites dealing with an angry mob by launching an ICBM at them...

Your PDF would probably only really have stuff that would be useful in suppressing fairly lightly armed and armoured opposition. Flamers, grenade launchers, heavy bolters, snipers, mortars, missile launchers and autocannons are what I would expect to see.
Plasma guns are expensive, and really, when would you need a plasma gun as an Enforcer? Meltaguns are the same. I think meltabombs are alot cheaper, and would do the job just as well as the gun.
Same with lascannons. When would you need a lascannon if all you are facing is reinforced civilian vehicles at worst?

Ofc, all this is only appropriate if your PDF is indeed only facing light infantry and light vehicles. If heavier stuff started showing up, I'm sure there are a few meltaguns and plasma guns stored in a top-security military installation somewhere. They are supposed to be the first line of defence against an alien raid or invasion, and they are supposed to be equipped well enough to be able to get the job done until reinforcements can arrive, which might be never.

I might be misreading your post and i apologize if i do so but aren't you confusing the PDF with the Arbites Forces? A PDF is nothing else than a standing planetary army while the Arbites are something entirely different.

Damage,Inc.
30-08-2010, 22:52
Not really. If you look at necromunda Lasguns were both cheap and common. Slightly more expensive than Autoguns but not that much and for an organisation the size of your average PDF it's likely to work out cheaper in the long run with rechargeable ammo packs and less maintenance (few if any moving parts).


Negative, Ghost Rider. Projectile weapons require basic chemical processes refined into rapid-burning compunds. This was discovered and pioneered by ancient Chinese and the alchemists in the middle ages. Add a tube of hardened steel and a triggering mechanism, and you have a firearm.

Projectile weapons can also be a mechanism that uses compressed non-combustable gasses (like Earth air) to force an object through a tube at a great rate of speed. Alternatively, weapons that work similar to compund bows or crossbows can also fall into this catergory.

Lasers require at the least precision machined lenses and highly polished mirrors along with rare gasses to exicte light particles into a single form of radiation that is then emitted through a semi-polarized lens. The processes needed to refine the gas, make the lenses and mirrors to the needed precision, if vastly more complex than that needed to make projectile weapons.

Diode lasers represent an entirely different machining path altogether. Then we get into the energy supply and processes needed to step the power up from whatever the battery pack provides to the high voltages needed to make a laser capable of killing someone.

All told laser weapons are by far more difficult to make and maintain than simple projectile weapons.

Since you brought up Necromunda as an example, I must assume you are also aware that lasguns were readily available because many of the great Houses were the arms manufactorers of lasguns, and their primary contract was to supply Imperial army needs.

Necromunda is a hive world with heavy industrialization. In fact, Necromunda is the prime example of a world that creates and supplies much of the mid-level Imeprial technology, so using that as an example of the availability of laser weapons throughout the galaxy is not accurate. This is the same reason plasma weapons were available, even though those would be considered very rare outside of Imperial forces.

Remember that the reason the gangs had the lasguns is due to repeated raids against weapon warehouses, gangers working in the factories "disappearing" some of the weapons,
and black market deals for production "overruns".

Now, when we talk about PDFs, we are talking about anything from a major industrial world such as Necromunda or Armageddon to backwater planets with tiny communities that live at near medeval stages. When looked at from this respect, we can see that advanced technology ill be more common closer to industry and less at the fringes. While some wealthy trading planets may keep elite forces well stocked to protect their assets, a farming world might only have militia minute-man style forces armed with basic weapons that collect in order to fight off opponents as needed.

Damage,Inc.
30-08-2010, 22:58
I feel that when discussing PDF we often forget that while they don't get extra support in the form of imperial technology, they do have only one world to protect and that means they have equipment specifically adapted to that world.

They may lack chimeras and heavy artillery, but may well all have cleats to walk on icy regions, for example. Or skis, or extra socks for jungles and so on. They may lack lasguns, but may have autoguns that are even better protected from the desert sand they work in. Or resistant to toxic corrosives from the toxic wastes.

For an example: Dark heresy describes a world where you get settlements HANGING FROM THE CEILING of caverns. So, PDF in that city would have all kinds of hooks for climbing there and dark visors to let them fight in the environment and similar.

This has actually been stated before in IG background materials. The Leman Russ MBT for example, is neither the most comfortable nor effective on the battlefield, however it is very easy to construct and repair, can run on a wide variety of fuel sources, and is very rugged. Lasguns are not powerful however they are nearly indestructible, have no moving parts, and come pre-constructed in large pieces that are easy to maintain by uneducated conscripts.

Because the Imperial Guard are tasked with fighting on a vareity of worlds from Earth-like to hostile planets with corrosive atmospheres, their equipment is meant to be rugged and sturdy over powerful. It's also way the IG are more disposable.

Many PDFs can actually have more rare items that wouldn't survive long in the employ of a force like the Guard, but will last generations if they are only used when needed.

ForgottenLore
30-08-2010, 23:48
All told laser weapons are by far more difficult to make and maintain than simple projectile weapons.

Nevertheless, Lasguns are repeatedly described as cheap and easy to manufacture and readily available on most imperial worlds.

Polaria
31-08-2010, 06:42
I think PDF can be adequately depicted by the Imperial Guard Codex as whole. The only things you have to leave out are things that do not exist in that particular planet. So Ogryns (unless its an Ogryn planet), Ratlings (unless its a Ratling planet), Tallarn Raiders (unless its Tallarn) and so on. If its a medieval planet the local PDF is hardly more than glorified Armybook: Empire from FB. If its a full-blown hive-world it can have pretty much everything. You get the point. Surely all armored vehicles of each and every type are fine. They are mass-produced, consumable vehicles. Its not like they are some archaic-tech produced only in Mars.

Gorbad Ironclaw
31-08-2010, 07:57
Diode lasers represent an entirely different machining path altogether.
I wasn't saying they were comparable, just that in the Imperium Lasguns are cheap and readily available. It's not some rare expensive weapon that's only just being produced enough of to equip the Guard, it's more like the AK-47 of 40k. Yes, projectile weapons are much simpler technology, but for a civilized world it's much more like that it's own standing army will be equipped with Lasguns than anything else.

The equipment used by the Guard is just not that special that you wouldn't find equivalent or better in many or even most PDF forces. A few of the weapon systems might be in limited supply but most could be be present in large numbers. Deathstriker missiles are probably the most rare thing in the IG codex, although they could easily be different types of long range missiles if you really wanted some.

Sure, if you are making a PDF of a more primitive world they will have problems producing some of these things locally but IMO primitive/feudal worlds really should be rare (there is little reason for them to stay at that level really) and one of the big advantages to being part of an Empire is that you have people to trade with. Anything that can't be produced locally can be traded for. Whatever you can afford it is a slightly different matter, but I see no reason why most PDF forces shouldn't have equivalent or better equipment than what you see the Imperial Guard equipped with.
Random rebel groups certainly seems to be able to do this whenever they appear in the fiction so the formal army of a world shouldn't have any problems either.

Damage,Inc.
31-08-2010, 12:10
The point is, as addressing how to make PDF different from IG, if you give your PDF all the options and signiture items from the IG codex, there is little to differentiate the two. In an empire of a million worlds there is space for all manner of things.

Using autoguns and stubbers as opposed to lasguns and heavy bolters achieves a cool effect while not really changing any rules. Otherwise the OP might as well just play with Codex:IG...

Polaria
31-08-2010, 12:38
Otherwise the OP might as well just play with Codex:IG...

I think the intention of the OP was to use Codex: Imperial Guard and the question was basically "Should I leave something out of it?"

TrooperTino
31-08-2010, 16:22
I don't think that this discussion will bring anymore than the allready mentioned... no ogryns, ratlings, psykers... but even they are possible.

To me a PDF is an excuse to make up an totaly low tech force (even for guard terms), or to make a high tech guard with skimmer tanks and good equipment. Both are possible to achive with codex IG, some scratchbuilding and the "count as" rule to play without much problems.

Edit: To include arbites as gardists or veterans of somekind would be a good thing to show the army is defending and using everything the planet has. Arbites are the last line of defence and every player will recognize them and what their inclusion as models means.

Corvussanctus
31-08-2010, 18:24
A PDF really needs a lot of recruits!
They are ideal to represent the hastly drafted militas and green soldiers that are now fighting for their home and hearth.

kng229
08-09-2010, 17:54
Depends entirely on the world.

^^This. The Imperium is so vast, you could really put most everything into a PDF and it be fluffy. Want a lot of plasma weapons? Your planet is a forgeworld that makes them. Want a lot of Ogryns? Your planet is a mining world that uses them as part of the labor pool. Want both? Your planet has a mix of both.

Generally though, PDFs as described as not being as well-equipped as standard Imperial Guard regiments. So if I was trying to be fluffy, I'd include a lot of standard footsloggers with low amounts of vehicles, special options/upgrades, and no veterans.

I mix my old PDF army from Codex: Armageddon. The big blobs of conscripts/whatever with plasma cannons and commissars as hidden powerfists were amazing.