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View Full Version : plaque censer bearers vs globadiers



Nemesis7884
29-08-2010, 06:52
the censer bearers as well as bloadiers seem very expensive (especially the first) - from your experience is there any chance that they will even reach any close combat if you build units of 5-10s, or do any damage? i mean for these 160 points you could take a plauqe mortar team and a plaque catapult...?

otherwise 10 cb could be an interesting addition to the monks since they could flank the unit the monks attack...if they ever reach it...especially nice against elves and other low toughness races

ROCKY
29-08-2010, 08:24
they are both great and not expensive as u make them to be. i run 6 of each (total 120pts). censer bearers need to be aimed at slower units to make the most out of them they have a basic 3S5 attacks each and the censer ability makes them filthy because it is done before attacks. and with the new rules some argue that because the of the step up rule u keep killing until they pass the T test. but in any case it is valuable against stuff like elven cav, COK, or empire knights (all who have T3). as for the psgs they are good at wearing down elite armored units who are stuck in combat with giant expendable units. and also for disposing of flyers. i killed Eltharions griffon with a bunch of them when he got too close.

Nemesis7884
29-08-2010, 08:37
so you run 5-6 per unit of p-monks as a detachment kinda...do they usually make it into cc or get killed before? thats my biggest concern... i prefer running 5 but am afraid they get shot to biz (altough the use of storm banner)

Haravikk
29-08-2010, 10:59
Remember that censer bearers (and globadiers I think?) are skirmishers so they require a fair amount of missile fire directed at them to actually kill them, plus censer bearers are Toughness 4 so with both of these advantages they're as effective at weathering shooting as a unit of Dwarfs. More costly sure, but you never field them in large units, and as a supporting unit to monks (particularly ones with a plague furnace) they are really worth the points IMO.

The only problem with them really is that the models are so expensive. Not as bad for the globadiers as I personally like the models, but the censer bearer models are hideous, but thankfully they're really easy to convert using a plague monks box as it has all the pieces you really need.

ROCKY
29-08-2010, 11:00
so you run 5-6 per unit of p-monks as a detachment kinda...do they usually make it into cc or get killed before? thats my biggest concern... i prefer running 5 but am afraid they get shot to biz (altough the use of storm banner)

if u read the skaven army book cencer bearers ARE supposed to be detachments for plague monks, i take about 30 monks and 5-6 censer bearers and keep them near so that they flank anyone that charge my monks OR dual chare with my monks. as for globadiers they are fun but i would rather take jezzails (S6 is too good to pass up). and if they shoot your censer bearers, so what? i would rather him waste 1-2 units/rounds of shooting at 60pts worth of models rather than shooting at stuff like my doomwheels/horde units/ rat ogres etc. instread of being afraid nemesis, u need to think "what units can i give him so that i benefit more" i would rather loose 1500points of my army to kill 2500points of his no? after all life is cheap hehehe.

ROCKY
29-08-2010, 11:02
Remember that censer bearers (and globadiers I think?) are skirmishers so they require a fair amount of missile fire directed at them to actually kill them, plus censer bearers are Toughness 4 so with both of these advantages they're as effective at weathering shooting as a unit of Dwarfs. More costly sure, but you never field them in large units, and as a supporting unit to monks (particularly ones with a plague furnace) they are really worth the points IMO.

The only problem with them really is that the models are so expensive. Not as bad for the globadiers as I personally like the models, but the censer bearer models are hideous, but thankfully they're really easy to convert using a plague monks box as it has all the pieces you really need.

perfect summary.

Exodus2013
29-08-2010, 17:40
They will be safe from arrow fire if hidden behind another unit as they will get hard cover + skirmishers benefits. Also noone is going to shoot a cannon at them because they will likely kill only one. The thing that might devastate a unit of Censer Bearers is a mortar but I'm sure that that will also be aimed at your likely huge bricks of rats on your front line. Definitely take the storm banner as well because this is a guaranteed 1 round of messing up the shooting phase and sometimes this is all it takes before you are in CC. Should be in CC in the 3rd turn at the latest.

Kevlar
29-08-2010, 17:52
Censers low initiative means they lost a lot of punch from last edition. You can not count on them charging and taking out the front rank. They will get attacked and they will most likely die before they even get to swing. They would still work good against other low initiative armies, especially against smaller elite units like cavalry or war machine hunters. They won't work at all against ranked infantry even with low initiative. Step up will slaughter them.

PWG lost a bit too since they suffer range penalty now. They don't really seem worth their cost, for only 8" range. I'd rather have one jezzail than two PWG.

russellmoo
29-08-2010, 18:58
Keep your CB's small, a large unit attracts shooting, and makes it worth the effort to destroy them. If you keep the unit at 5 or 6 models they become low priority as far as the enemy is concerned. I've always managed to get mine into CC.

w3rm
29-08-2010, 19:20
You forget one of the key benefits of PWG. They can take Poisoned Wind Mortars and the Champion can take a death globe. Both of these are incredibly useful. You just have to know what to use the PWG on. Knights and heavily armour eleites.

Also remeber that PWG have heavy armour!

Haravikk
29-08-2010, 21:49
Censers low initiative means they lost a lot of punch from last edition. You can not count on them charging and taking out the front rank. They will get attacked and they will most likely die before they even get to swing. They would still work good against other low initiative armies, especially against smaller elite units like cavalry or war machine hunters. They won't work at all against ranked infantry even with low initiative. Step up will slaughter them.
Not sure they were ever really that ideal for frontal assaults anyway? They're still great for flank charging while the plague monks are on an enemy's front, or for taking a charge to prevent it hitting the plague monk unit's flanks or rear. While they will take a lot of damage they should hopefully deal some in return, as their censer attack will at least hit before even Always Strikes First enemies and ought to drop some models, and the censer bearers have a reasonable chance at holding as they only need one to survive since they'll be stubborn on high leadership, giving plenty of time for the monks to turn around.

I suppose they've been hit in a similar way to cavalry, but then they shouldn't ever really have been frontally charging enemies and wiping out their front rank IMO so this isn't strictly bad. I think they should do just fine at the roles they seemed to be intended for; flank charges and screening the plague monks.

w3rm
29-08-2010, 23:11
Exactly. I've had 3 censors front charge a unit of 15 saurus, kill the whole front rank 2 die in return then the 1 Censor ovveran the unit. The same 1 censor rear charged antohter unit of 15 saurs the next turn and broke and overran that unit too. Theyre just too good in 7th.

selone
29-08-2010, 23:38
PCB's used to be able to charge in and do a LOT of damage eliminate the front row and receive no attacks back :)

Kevlar
30-08-2010, 02:40
Stubborn on ld 5 ain't all that. And 3 censers beating two units of 15 saurus has the same statistical probability of me hitting the powerball jackpot. Just shy of none.

selone
30-08-2010, 09:32
Whilst by no means a guaranteed feat doing enough damage to win combat against 15 saurus, nine strength five attacks with hatred plus crazy fog effect is by no means as unlikely as statistical probability of me hitting the powerball jackpot

For the record the 3 PCB's would get 6.75 hits and 4.5 wounds of which (lets say a 3+ save -2) is exactly 3 wounds. You'd just need to roll 2 5's+ for the fog effect and thats the front rank dead and the PCB's would have got 5 combat res to the lizards 2 for ranks, 1 for outnumber (possibly a standard for four) and win combat assuming they don't die to their own fog.

This is under 7th edition with HW+shields instead of spears.

Haravikk
30-08-2010, 10:46
Seeing as how their toughness tests can kill a third of that front-rank, followed up by 3 Strength 5, re-rollable attacks each I don't think that wiping out the front of a unit of Saurus is something they've ever had trouble with as 3 of them will cause an average of ~6 wounds against Toughness 4. The problem now is that in 8th they won't be able to do anything with it as the enemy will hit back and wipe them out without much trouble.
[edit, ninja'd on the above part!]

As for the Plague Censer Bearer's leadership when Stubborn, under 8th edition they still receives bonuses to their leadership, and simply ignore penalties from combat resolution. So they may be stubborn on leadership 8 or even 10 if a general and at least 4 ranks of monks are nearby. The reason for this is that the errata changed steadfast such that a unit that is steadfast ignores the difference in combat resolution scores, and as a stubborn unit is always steadfast this means they still receive leadership bonuses (but also any special penalties outside of combat resolution).

Nemesis7884
30-08-2010, 19:19
so you all run unit of 5s? i'd only use em for flanking anyway...or maybe 2 units of 5