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View Full Version : Skaven 1500 pts (based off Island of Blood)



vorthain
31-08-2010, 17:50
So I'm new to Skaven but have played Dark Elves for 5 or 6 years. A High Elf-playing buddy of mine is picking up Island of Blood and is cutting the Skaven in it to me for cheap, so I figured it'd be a good secondary army. To all you veteran Grey Seers on the Council, here's my initial plan:

Starting with what is in IoB:

Warlock Engineer (160)
- Level 2 Lore of Ruin
- Warplock Musket
- Warlock Optics
- Dispel Scroll

Chieftain (137)
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Crown of Command
- Great Weapon
- Tail Weapon

Clanrats x 20 w/ FC, shields, and Warpfire Thrower (180)
Clanrats x 20 w/ FC, shields, and Poisoned Wind Mortar (175)
Rat Ogres x 2 w/ Packmaster (88)

On top of that, I will add:
- 3 more rat ogres (120)
- 4 warplock jezzails (120)
- 1 hell pit abomination (235)
- 7 plague censer bearers (112)
- 20 stormvermin w/ FC, Banner of the Under-Empire, and Ratling Gun

This totals at 1554, so I'll need to cut a little off the top. I like the Ogres now with stomp, so I think 5 is a good way to go. Jezzails are always good, not too sure on the Censer Bearers, and the Hell Pit Abomination is basically a must have thing.

I have seen a lot of people say Rogres aren't really worth it. Any thoughts on that? Also, it seems to be that Censer Bearers are better than Globadiers. Any advice would be good on expanding from IoB.

As an aside, it seems to me that Skaven, as an army, are limited to having very few wizards in their armies. If each wizard must have different spells, and there are only two available lores (Ruin and Plague), then that puts a limit on the casters you can have. For instance, I eventually want Ikit Claw, and like all Warlock Engineers, he must choose from the Lore of Ruin. This means that he would get 3 spells and the lesser warlock hero would get 2. This seems like a pretty major handicap compared to almost all other wizards, which aren't forced into a single lore. Am I wrong here?

Sliver
01-09-2010, 06:59
Some of my oppinions after alot of arguing with the council while planning a Skaven force of my own.

Warlock Engineer (160)
- Level 2 Lore of Ruin
- Warplock Musket
- Warlock Optics
- Dispel Scroll

You are paying to much point for a move or shoot weapon, a jezzail team more would be a better investment.
Warp energy condenser is an awesome item for an engineer, +2 on the D6 roll for the amount of S5 hits warp lightning kicks out (a spell I'd say is mandatory to pick) and a 5+ channel in addition to the normal 6+ one.


Chieftain (137)
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Crown of Command
- Great Weapon
- Tail Weapon

The BSB is really crucial for all the LD-test rerolls, I would advice giving him some protection. At 1500 you might not need ward saves (otherwise foul pendant or talisman of preservation are solid items) but you should boost his save. He's got heavy armour, so if you drop him a shield and a helmet (Dragonhelm), he'll have a 3+ save for 12 points more. Crown of command should not be needed, as long as you follow the most important advice I'll give: More clan rats!

The warlock will be your general, with a measly leadership of 5 you'll need 3 ranks to get LD8 for your units, anything less and stuff will start running pretty fast.

Clanrats x 20 w/ FC, shields, and Warpfire Thrower (180)
Clanrats x 20 w/ FC, shields, and Poisoned Wind Mortar (175)

Nice choice of weapon teams, but those regiments needs to be atleast 30 strong. I'd say 40 might be better even, but atleast 30. You'll want them to keep their ranks for a long time to boost their LD, and to make them Steadfast for outranking their opponent.

Rat Ogres x 2 w/ Packmaster (88)

On top of that, I will add:
- 3 more rat ogres (120) - Without a save, and with T4, these are really fragile. I'll try to run them some times, and they sure will hit hard. But most likely they will die running, if you face a shooty or magic heavy army.
- 4 warplock jezzails (120) - 4 Jezzails = 80 pts, I like em.
- 1 hell pit abomination (235) - Solid choice, atleast for competative lists
- 7 plague censer bearers (112) - Just as with the rat ogers, those are very fragile, but hits hard. Would probably want a screen of slaves for an additional -2 shooting (unless the shooter is lurking up a hill.
- 20 stormvermin w/ FC, Banner of the Under-Empire, and Ratling Gun - You'd want to increase the numbers here too. The Ratling Gun is not at all as good as the Warpfire Thrower or the Plague Wind Mortar now adays, as you need to roll to hit with each hit.

This totals at 1554, so I'll need to cut a little off the top. I like the Ogres now with stomp, so I think 5 is a good way to go. Jezzails are always good, not too sure on the Censer Bearers, and the Hell Pit Abomination is basically a must have thing.

I have seen a lot of people say Rogres aren't really worth it. Any thoughts on that? Also, it seems to be that Censer Bearers are better than Globadiers. Any advice would be good on expanding from IoB.

Try to get the skaven half of another box, to boost your number of rats. I'd aim on adding skaven slaves, very handy for tarpitting, screens etc. Plague monks are nice, T4, frenzy and two weapons for 7 points is pretty nice, add the plague banner and/or a furnance and they'll ripp even more. Screaming bell, doomwheel, warplightning cannon, all good additions. A seer on a bell gives you an 18" LD7 give away, very nice indeed. And he's a great spellcaster, now one level4 is ususally alot better than many lower level wizards.

--
Statistics on Censers vs Globadiers.

A globadier got a 25% chance of killing a target (range 8) with shooting, no matter the toughtness/save. Heavy armour / -1 to hit with shooting (skrimish) is good, as is the option to add a Plague Wind Mortar. 'Just' 10 points, thou they are only T3.

A Censerbearer will inflict 1.4-2.5 wounds on average (2.5 vs T3 enemies 5+ save or worse, 2 vs T4 enemies with 5+ or worse, 1.7 vs T4 4+ save, 1.4 vs T3 2+ save). They are T4 and no save, and I3. This means they might die before striking. Furthermore, they need a close by monk unit to gain steadfast, if they dont have that they will have trouble vs rank and file (+4 static combat resolution) unless they can all strike.

I'll go with a 5 strong Globadier squad with a mortar (to knock out high T, high save units), and will probably try out a 5-7 censer squad for assisting a big infantry block with stacking attacks (preferably hitting something with I2).

--



As an aside, it seems to me that Skaven, as an army, are limited to having very few wizards in their armies. If each wizard must have different spells, and there are only two available lores (Ruin and Plague), then that puts a limit on the casters you can have. For instance, I eventually want Ikit Claw, and like all Warlock Engineers, he must choose from the Lore of Ruin. This means that he would get 3 spells and the lesser warlock hero would get 2. This seems like a pretty major handicap compared to almost all other wizards, which aren't forced into a single lore. Am I wrong here?

I'd say you are wrong, and I think people agree with me. Skaven magic is strong, one of few drawbacks is that most of the Rulebook Lores have been boosted quite a bit, which is not the case with the army Lores. Magic as it is now means you'd most likely want a level4 to cast almost all your spells (+4 to the roll, choice of 4 spells), with lowlevel wizards for channeling, scrolls and maybe a good spell or two if lucky. With Winds of Magic you can get any number between 2 and 12 powerdice, if you roll low, you wont have nearly enougth even for a level4 seer, if you roll 12 you'll still be able to use most of them with the seer if you got good spells for him. The limit to two lores is not a problem. You'd most likely want to pick Warp Lightning for your engineers, which can be taken in duplicates, and other then that your seer will have two lores choosing from, add to that a plague priest if you feel lucky with the winds.


Hope you dont mind the wall of text, alot of gathered wisdom! (and hopefully not to many own oppinions and such, I've tried to be statistically correct)

vorthain
02-09-2010, 14:17
Alright, so here's take two. I removed a few of the sexier things for more clan rats. Plus, I feel like the Hell Pit Abomination might be a little cheesy for 1500 pts, considering how strong it is. Of course, I'm trading it for a Grey Seer (Grey Warlock to maintain my Clan Skryre feel). Here's what I've come up with.

Lord

Grey Warlock
- Foul Pendant
- Dispel Scroll

Heroes

Warlock Engineer
- Level 2
- Warp Energy Condenser
- Death Globe

Chieftain BSB
- great weapon (I'm keeping this for the strength; hopefully clanrats will take the hits from the enemy from ASL)
- tail weapon
- Seeds of Rebirth
- Dragonhelm

Core

30 Clanrats w/ full command and poisoned wind mortar
30 Clanrats w/ full command and warp fire thrower
20 Stormvermin w/ full command, banner of the under-empire, and doom-flayer (thinking of using a converted Bone-ripper model for this)

Special

4 Jezzail Teams
4 Rat Ogres

The new total is 1490 and it emphasizes numbers and magic more. I think I like this one more. I know there is a lot of points in characters, especially magic, but I'm hoping that'll work out well.

If I decide to expand it, I'll go for the Hell Pit Abomination, more Stormvermin, and Globadiers. Also, there is no reason to apologize for solid math-hammer! Also, I checked out your conversions - they are really inspiring!

ryan jones
07-09-2010, 23:17
as you have got a grey seer have you thought of dropping the engineer for a doomwheel its 5 points extra and can do alot of damage with its grind attack you just have to stay away from units with great weapons other then that its a really good unit i generally take 1 in 1500 points and keep it on a flank

vorthain
20-09-2010, 15:59
The Doomwheel seems good rules-wise, but it is a bit too goofy for me to include in my army. I'm going for strong magic anyway, and when I do pick up a rare, it'll likely be the HPA. The lightning cannon is good too and even cheaper. The Skaven have so many good rare choices but I lack the constitution to paint a billion clanrats.

vorthain
01-10-2010, 17:25
New list after a couple weeks of meditation and education, this time for 1250 pts:

Lords (19.2%)
- Grey Warlock (240 pts)
-- d3 Warpstone Tokens

Heroes (8.2%)
- Chieftain Battle Standard Bearer (102 pts)
-- great weapon, tail weapon, Dragonhelm, Seeds of Rebirth

Core (48.8%)
- Clanrats x 30 w/ Full Command, shields, and Warpfire Thrower (225 pts) *joined by Grey Warlock
- Clanrats x 30 w/ Full Command, shields, and Poisoned Wind Mortar (220 pts) *joined by BSB
- Night Runners x 15 w/ Warp-Grinder (165 pts)

Special (16.6%)
- Warplock Jezzails x 4 (80 pts)
- Rat Ogres x 3 w/ 1 packmaster (128 pts)

Rare (7.2%)
- Warp Lightning Cannon (90 pts)

If I expand from here, I'd consider a group of Globadiers.