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FashaTheDog
01-09-2010, 00:19
I have a quartet of games under my belt with Daemons, three under 7th and one under 8th so I am not too familiar with either edition or the army. Now the store has an escalation league that I may be entering as a replacement. The guy I am replacing is at the very bottom with no points at all so I am inheriting a handicap. The way the league works is that you make one list to use for the entire month and cannot change it until the next 600 point step.

I own the following:

2 Bloodthirsters
1 Keeper of Secrets
1 Lord of Change
1 Epidemus
1 Herald of Tzeenth
1 Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut
1 Nurgle Daemon Princess with wings
1 Daemon Prince (Be'Lakor)
20 Daemonettes
20 Plaguebearers
22.5 Horrors (legs missing for one)
29 Bloodletters
1 Bloodletter champion
1 Bloodletter standard
2 Bloodletter musicians
1 Fiend of Slaanesh
5 Screamers
6 Flamers
20 Furies

I am thinking of the following for the 1,200 point step:

Herald of Tzeentch: Flames of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery (might switch one to Spell Breaker)
Herald of Khorne BSB: Juggernaut, Firestorm Blade, Armor of Khorne, Icon of Despair
10 Horrors
6 Flamers
30 Bloodletters: Full Command w/ Icon of Endless War

In my last game I ran a 50 strong Bloodletter unit (proxied Daemonettes) with the Herald tossed in and when combined with the Bloodthirster it completely rolled over an entire Wood Elf army as though it were not even there. There was a Tzeentch half too, but that did nothing. Needless to say, I do like the fields of Khorne route, but I am open to suggestions.

With what I own as listed above, what changes can I make to improve upon the list and help me get out of the hole I'm starting in? If it calls for a rewriting of the entire list than so be it. Additionally, if I do go with Master of Sorcery for my Herald, which lore should I choose? The Lore of Beasts has a cool spell to turn him into a Great Fire Dragon, which would be a nice Bloodthirster substitute.

ftayl5
01-09-2010, 06:31
I think you've spent to many points on characters, that's about 400pts, more than 25% of 1200.

So I suggest something more like:

(General) Herald of Khorne @ 140pts
Firestorm Blade, Armour of Khorne

This will give you a general who can actually fight, juggernaut doesn't fit in the % so maybe jazz up one of your bloodletter champions or get rid of the master of sorcery on the tzeentch herald and the firestorm blade on the herald and you could fit it in but can juggernauts go in bloodletter units?

Herald of Tzeentch @ 140pts
Master of Sorcery

So no shooting attack but he's still a strong caster, I suggest the lore of Tzeentch, I like it and I don't know the new lores well yet.

Now that your list is legal, and you have some points for an army...

30 Bloodletters is good, trust me it'll chew up anything combined with the herald (and his locus.) With the spare points, bump the horrors up to 20 and I think you only need 3 flamers and chuck in some daemonettes with what you've got left
So something like:

30 letters, full command icon of war
10 daemonettes, muso
20 horrors, command
3 flamers
tzeentch herald as above
khorne herald as above
that's 1196?

Hope some of that was helpful (and in case your wondering, most armies don't need BSB's at 1200pts, Daemons definitely don't)

FashaTheDog
01-09-2010, 16:33
Missed that one, my mistake. I also do not really have a good unit for a Herald of Khorne on foot either, although I could use the spare musician although I have a feeling that will not be league legal.

As for the Command on the Horrors or musician on the Daemonettes, I cannot field either of those as I only have a champion for the Horrors (being painted different). My army is all metal and I intend to keep it that way so Horrors, Bloodletters, and Daemonettes are oop for me and require I find some reasonable deals. Horror and Daemonette command groups will require a little converting, but I will burn that bridge when I get more.

Regarding the BSB, I was thinking the -2 Ld would help to see fear work and when I had to play Blood and Glory, I would have my army's current limit of four fortitude points rather than three. I will have to drop the BSB to free up a hundred points, leaving me 55 points up in the Hero department. Flames of Tzeentch and the Khorne Herald's gifts can go to bring me legal. Now a revised idea might be this:

Herald of Khorne: Juggernaut (the gists would be better, but I probably am stuck with this)
Herald of Tzeentch: Master of Sorcery
30 Bloodletters: Full Command w/ Icon of Endless War
20 Horrors
3 Flamers
5 Screamers or 11 Daemonettes

I am still curious as to which Lore to give the Tzeentch Herald, but more importantly, it seems like this list is still lacking. Any ideas?

To answer your query regarding a Juggernaut joining Bloodletters, it says on page 97 that characters may join infantry units unless the character in question is a monster or rides upon one (sadly that means Bloodthirsters cannot join Bloodletter hordes). There is no mention of riding monstrous cavalry preventing a character from joining a unit of infantry.

ftayl5
02-09-2010, 05:26
ok thanks for clarifying that.
You don't really need command on the horrors as they aren't a combat unit anyway but the musician on the daemonettes would be really good. Having 4 screamers instead would work pretty well too I think.
At 1800pts you could add a BSB with the -2LD banner but you can't really fit it now.

FashaTheDog
02-09-2010, 05:47
Just played a game with my above list and I felt I needed at least 20 more Bloodletters as two 10 strong tooled up Chaos Warrior units ground them down at great expense to themselves. The Horrors unleashed magical fury miscasting themselves off the table for the five survivors to be easily mopped up. The Herald shot off Purple Suns of fun making life miserable for Marauders, but not the Warriors who only failed a single initiative test for every ten passed over. A miscast saw him removed on turn three or four, not that it mattered as most of everything was dead by the end of turn three with a few stragglers on both sides mulling about. Only the Screamers were fine at the end of the day, flying all over the place and sniping off three or four guys at a time.

While I am less concerned about the next 600 points as I have a month to deal with that, the BSB, some gifts for the Khorne Herald, and perhaps a naked Bloodthirster seem to be just right. Now I am somewhat unhappy with the way the list performed and woulf like some ideas on how to tweak it.

PeG
02-09-2010, 06:22
I prefer lore of life on my first caster. Being able to provide buffs, heal units and cast dwellers on those huge units of cheap infantry is great and the casting values are still reasonable.
As you noticed chaos warriors are a pain to remove. I play against them a lot and my only advice is not to get into the front or rear of them with regular infantry. My regular opponenst likes to run them in units of 12 with mark of khorne and additional hand weapon meaning that they have 30 attacks hitting on 4+ wounding on 3+ before I get to strike. Even large units of letters lose to many models to be efficient later in combat unless you can heal them with lore of life.

The best way I have found to deal with them is with magic (lore of metal is great, lore of tzeetnch also works), flamers (problem is that they are usually better of shooting at something with less armour), boosted infantry ie letters or daemonettes with +T from lore of life or buffs from lore of beasts etc which makes them live a bit longer/hitting harder or avoiding them.