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Citadel97501
02-09-2010, 06:03
(Sorry about the long post. .)

I am just wondering but considering how cheap our basic heroes can be with a great weapon, has anyone given serious thought to throwing one in all of the Spear Men, or Sea Guard units so that they have a much better time versus the nastier threats for those units?

Here is some Close Combat Math Hammer. . .
6 x 2, MoK Chaos Warriors, with Halberds, Shields & Full Command: 300 or so with a random banner. . .

20 Spear Men with Banner, Musician: 195
Useful Hero (Non-Mage), Armor of Caledor, GW: 124 points

Round 1
Elven Hero: Kill 2.2
Spear Elves: Kill 2.5 (Call it 5, will round down for next round.)
7 Warriors attack Back: Killing 11
Elves Lose by 5: Are Stubborn at LD 9 and hold. . .

Round 2
Elven Hero: Kill 2.2
Spear Elves: Kill 1.25 (call it 3)
5 Warriors attack back: 6.6 kills (call it 7)
Elves lose by 4: and probably run. . . :(

Here is a different mix that you may encounter. . .
5 x 3 Tzeentch Warriors with Shields, with full command: 290

Round 1
Elven Hero: Kill 1.2
Spear Elves: Kill 1 (Call it 2)
10 Warriors attack Back: Killing 5.5 (Call it 5 will round up for next round.)
Elves Lose by 2: Are Stubborn at LD 9 and hold. . .

Round 2
Elven Hero: Kill 1.2
Spear Elves: Kill 0.8 (call it 2)
10 Warriors attack back: 5.5 kills (call it 6)
Elves lose by 4: and probably run.

It looks like a failure against the nasty WoC units, but it should work well versus less perfect close combat units, now for those of us who are asking, if you have the units be sea guard instead and make them cost 273 or a total of 397 points, you should kill 3 before combat, here is the newly calculated results.

The enemy units get 6 more warriors, due to price constraints.

Round 1
Elven Hero: Kill 2.2
Spear Elves: Kill 2.5 (Call it 5, will round down for next round.)
12 Warriors attack Back: Killing 13
Elves Lose by 8: Flee on anything but. . .

Round 1
Elven Hero: Kill 1.2
Spear Elves: Kill 1 (Call it 2)
10 Warriors attack Back: Killing 5.5 (Call it 5 will round up for next round.)
Elves Lose by 2: 50% chance to flee

Somehow this became even worse, gah! Damn I depress myself sometimes. .

brendino
02-09-2010, 06:33
hey, good work doing the mathhammer, but I think its better to buy a support unit instead of the hero, for example a lion chariot to charge in for round two, or 10 swordmasters or something.

Citadel97501
02-09-2010, 07:13
I think your right, and I will do the math on that. I suspect that the Lion Chariot is probably your best bet, due to the extra speed, and better anti-chaos warrior killing.

Spear Men with possible support Versus Khorne WoC
Round 1
Spear Elves: Kill 2.5 (Call it 3, will round down for next round.)
9 Warriors attack Back: Killing 11.5 (call it 11)
Elves Lose by 8: Run away, the WLC is late and there for of no help.

Spear Men Versus Tzeentch WoC
Round 1
Spear Elves: Kill 1
10 Warriors attack Back: Killing 5.5 (Call it 5 will round up for next round.)
Elves Lose by 4: Are Stubborn at LD 8 and hold. . .

Round 2
Impact Hits: Kill 1.5
WLC Crew: Kill 0.69
Spear Elves: Kill 0.8
10 Warriors attack back at spear men: 5.5 kills
1 Warrior attacks WLC: 0.33 wound (call it 6)
2 lions attack back: 0.55 (call it 4)
Elves lose by 1: and probably hold.

Round 3
WLC Crew: Kill 0.69
Spear Elves: 0.48
5 warriors attack: Kill 3.6
2 Lions attack back: 0.55
Elves Lose by 1: and probably hold, (if the white lion is on a flank its a push.)

Round 4
WLC Crew: Kill 0.69
Spear Elves: Kill 0.32
Warriors: Kill 1.81
2 Lions: Kill 0.55
Tie:

Round 5
1 more spear elf dies, and the warriors are wiped out, finally!

Hmmm. . Interesting it looks like WLC's just aren't good enough to kill off the Warriors, perhaps 9 or 10 White Lions would work better?

Gorak
02-09-2010, 07:22
6 x 2, MoK Chaos Warriors, with Halberds, Shields & Full Command: 300 No chaos general would take that load out, shields is a waste of points. other than that neato mathhammerin

Citadel97501
02-09-2010, 07:36
6 x 2, MoK Chaos Warriors, with Halberds, Shields & Full Command: 300 No chaos general would take that load out, shields is a waste of points. other than that neato mathhammerin

I take it all the time for the extra protection against shooting, it is useful since every one ignores the Tzeentch unit with shooting since its got the Blasted Banner. . .

Although I freely admit I would rather play the Fear/Nurgle stuff every time since its a lot more fun, and doesn't have as much whining as the "I am the Killiest thing in any book, Khorne Halberds."

Novrain
02-09-2010, 16:59
Also unless you tool up the characters defensively they are likely to die fairly quickly from return attacks.

(4+ is the best mundane possible in the HE book no? )

D'Haran
02-09-2010, 17:05
Honestly if I were your opponent I would target the noble first, and unfortunately a good opponent will throw at least one attack at him, find out he's naked, and take him down. I considered running something similar but in all of my test games the nobles were taken out very quickly and only killed 2-6 opponents before they died (depending on what army I was playing against).

Conclusion: elves die easily, even our heroes unless we pimp them out to survive, as such they're usually not worth the points if we can't protect them. A unit of DP's might be very effective with 2-3 mounted nobles.

ScytheSwathe
02-09-2010, 17:41
I dont see the need to do it really, its too expensive for what it achieves. As noted a defencive noble is a different matter, useful for challanges and so on, but with elf moblility and the fact that your spear hit harder when charged than charging, means you can generally pick your targets quite well anyway. especially if your deployment starts with 4 eagles so you cans ee what theyre up to.

bluemage
02-09-2010, 19:26
High elf heroes are expensive and die easily. I'd rather take a unit of white lions to help kill chaos warriors and other high toughness and good armor save units.