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The_Admiral_V77H
02-09-2010, 06:06
i predominantly verse WoC/VCs, Skaven/lizardmen(rarely), and High elves
these games are at 2500 for the vc and skaven players and about 2K for the elf player.
What are some things that I should include in my army?
What are some tactics I could use?
What are your thoughts?

danny-d-b
02-09-2010, 06:17
well big blocks of infantry for a start, warriors are one of the most solid choices for there cost, while hammers and good as well, and ironbrekaers have the best armour for infantry in the game

Dwarfs also have the best anti magic in the game with no limit on scrolls as well as having some very powerfull shooting and WM

they also have some very nice runes, rune of slowness (-D6 to anyone charging you) seams a nice one)

Grovel
02-09-2010, 06:25
Longbear Rangers, Quarellers with Great Weapons & Warriors with great weapons.

With such terrible initiative, theres no reason to go with hw+sh over GW on anything that has the choice. Everything can be pretty killy without becomming squishy like most armies do. If you need a harder anvil use the Ironbreakers.

The_Admiral_V77H
02-09-2010, 06:43
annother question... hw and shield + Great weapon. Good/Bad?

Rajhald
02-09-2010, 07:03
Well if you take the GW now you have to use it. I don't even take the shields now, just more points into warriors.

I am really enjoying combat dwarfs in this edition, they are fantastic.

russellmoo
02-09-2010, 14:37
I put shields on my hammerers, the only reason is that if they enemy is going to shoot this is the most likely candidate as it's the only stubborn unit on the board, plus my tooled up Lord, so it tends to draw fire from shooty armies-

I also put shields on my thunderers, to add to their durability- and because they can't take great weapons. Plus- I field a lot of them and this way they double as a weaker anvil.

Rangers especially LB rangers/gw might be the best unit in the game.

You want to bring 2 cannons- or you can get by with one cannon and a grudge thrower, and bring an organ gun.

Miners- depends on your play style- if you bring say Ironbreakers, and Hammerers, then I'd also take LB Rangers and Miners. This gives you two units that won't run away or die, and then you sandwich your opp. with the rangers and the miners.

Or another popular build is quarellers/gw,2 X warriors w/gw, LB Rangers- this approach requires no anvil as everything hurts and kills like crazy.

Both builds of course include 1-2 cannons, organ gun, grudgethrower

Dead Man Walking
02-09-2010, 15:11
LB rangers are not the best unit in the game. Once your done upgrading from warriors to longbeards to rangers and adding the GW and perhaps even the crossbows they are too fantastically expensive per model. Once you've done all this and run into some other armies 'best unit' in the game chances are the LB rangers are going to be trampled. There are better units in the game that will roll this unit.

If your intention is to be 12 inches away at start of game and charge on turn 2 then I can assure you that you can do the same thing with 5 units of other types of dwarves under the effects of a bsb with strolla'z runes. (deploy 12 in, free 6 inch march followed by turn 1 6 inch march and then a 2nd turn charge of 5-15 inches!=29-39 inches!!).

If you intend to get behind your enemy with them the miners do it better for far less.

russellmoo
02-09-2010, 15:34
Sorry, I meant best dwarf unit in the game.

Miners- I have yet to see or hear of them do much in any game. Here's why- they show up in turn two (they might even show up turn three), can't charge until turn three, unless you have an Anvil- even then you have to strike the rune- most of the time the enemy has moved everything towards your line, and players just outrun the miners. I've read up to five battle reports where the miners did absolutely nothing-

Now miners could be a very good choice if you fight a lot of elf, or empire armies- however, as he stated his primary opponents are WoC and VC, both of which are going to run straight at him- leaving the miners in the dust.

Dwarf armies have no give- and without magic boosts to the troops dwarfs have limited flexibility- with one exception- Rangers- they are the only choice dwarfs have that can do it all- shoot, fight, flank.

russellmoo
02-09-2010, 15:37
Ran out of space- so I will also admit though that against VC and Skaven str 6 attacks are a waist- so a list with both LB's and Hammerers might be overkill- he should take one or the other.

langolas
02-09-2010, 15:41
Miners can be outrun. however, when the pop out in the backfield and get into HtH with a cannon or a unit of archers who were in back to avoid combat, it's a beautiful sight. Add the Anvil and great googlie mooglie.

I'm converting some warriors into Hammerers and they should make their debut this weekend. I'm still trying a bunch of different unit types to fit my play style. Alas, my dice appeared to have been in the Roman Senate - and also probably stabbed Caesar as well.

Dead Man Walking
02-09-2010, 16:26
Miners can be outrun. however, when the pop out in the backfield and get into HtH with a cannon or a unit of archers who were in back to avoid combat, it's a beautiful sight. Add the Anvil and great googlie mooglie.

I'm converting some warriors into Hammerers and they should make their debut this weekend. I'm still trying a bunch of different unit types to fit my play style. Alas, my dice appeared to have been in the Roman Senate - and also probably stabbed Caesar as well.

They can't outrun miners if your opponent isnt moving forward because an entire table of ranked dwarves are in position for a turn 2 charge.

If your not playing a mostly infantry marching list then you just take smaller units of them to attack artillery, in which case they are not out running your miners either.

Haravikk
02-09-2010, 17:16
Miners are brilliant; I loved them in 7th edition and in 8th your enemy is going to be hard-pressed to outrun them when they can now charge up to 15"!

One of the main advantages is more subtle though, in that until they arrive your enemy will mostly be committing their forces to attack your deployed units. While you'll be at a disadvantage for a while, when the miners do arrive, they have a pretty free choice of where to hit once your enemy has committed their forces, which can turn a game. I mean sure, you can do this by clever manoeuvring but miners can do it in a far less predictable way as the enemy can only speculate at where you'll choose for them to enter the battlefield.

Less units at the start also means less units to try and shield from enemy shooting (or that have to endure it), so it's important to remember that the miners enter the table as a fresh unit. There's a lot of small advantages to underground advance that aren't always obvious :)

Dead Man Walking
02-09-2010, 18:15
Rangers would be a sweet unit if they didnt cost so much to field, thier point cost compared to what they do will not make them the best dwarf unit in the game. A regular longbeard unit is probably the best, right up there with hammerers and irons.

I've never had problems getting my miners to do what I needed them to do last edition and they only got better in this edition. In fact the sheer fear of them coming up is enough to make your opponent mess up thier battlelines in an attempt to answer thier threat. If they ignore them then they get right up in behind thier grill, if they maneuver to face them then they leave themselves exposed on thier battlefront.

Mind you I always played an all infantry marching army, not a gunline (Which became boring quickly). Miners require some thought and planning, they are not just place and fire. However if you can manage that much they are pretty useful.

Haravikk
02-09-2010, 18:35
Rangers would be a sweet unit if they didnt cost so much to field, thier point cost compared to what they do will not make them the best dwarf unit in the game. A regular longbeard unit is probably the best, right up there with hammerers and irons.
I dunno about Longbeards; if all you want is resilience via parry save for a bit less cost than Ironbreakers (or within your core choices), then sure, otherwise there's not much point in them with hand weapons and shields. But giving them great weapons makes them cost more than Hammerers, and with Panic not being a big deal with a battle standard bearer nearby their advantages aren't too great IMO.

To be honest I don't field any of my units with hand weapons and shields anymore except Ironbreakers for obvious reasons, or if I run out of points, just don't seem to save enough Dwarfs versus the killing potential you lose.

Longbeard rangers can be worth the points in very specific cases. I mean you can use them to get a unit or two locked in combat early on, giving you a chance to manoeuvre in, it's just that you will end up gambling a lot of points to try and hold those enemies there, and it can quickly turn sour. Quarreller rangers are better I think, as with great weapons they're a great mixed unit, and the scout move can position them in an ideal spot early on.

Dead Man Walking
02-09-2010, 20:21
Longbeards are core and dont require great weapons in order to reliably wound other units (unlike warriors.). Hammerers and IB were great during the age of +1 armor with HW+shield, thier value has been reduced in the face of initiative combat and lesser armor. That is why I like Longbeards over hammerers (which I still use 2 units of 20).

Gotrek
02-09-2010, 23:32
a hammerer unit with a thane with MR of challenge and close to the BSB is a sure way to deal the strongest enemy unit some serious damage and hold it in place for at least 1 turn and flank charge it with a solid unit of GW warriors.

hammerers still are my weapon of choice and until (if ever) IB's get stuborn i'll keep on using them.

_dandaman_
04-09-2010, 00:30
I've been using my unit of 20 hammerers with my dwarf lord on SB to awesome effect, when I facec a really killy unit, I let them charge me, using my movement phase to reform 2 wide so that only attacks will hit my lord, I get 3 attacks with the champ+ another hammerer, they get no attacks back, and good luck killing my dwarf lord. T5 and +1 As ftw, plus if I lose combat to scr, i'm testing on stubborn ld 10! :evilgrin:

amysrevenge
04-09-2010, 04:26
That's a tough one to pull off, since you can't use combat reform to reduce the number of models in base contact with the enemy - only increase or stay the same.

russellmoo
04-09-2010, 07:34
It's useful if you see a cavalry unit bearing down on you. Then the tactic works even better- reduce to 2 wide to accept the charge, then combat reform to bring in more models now that the lances are useless.

The_Admiral_V77H
04-09-2010, 08:16
what im going to use in about a week is 2500 pts
Rune Smith with shield, MR of Balance/Spellbinding
LB Rangers with bugman, throwing axes, FC
25Warriors with h/w,shield, FC; BSB with MR of Stromni Redbeard
20Thunderers with FC and Shields
Master Engineer with MR of Dismay, handgun
20 Hammerers w G/w, shields, FC; Lord with sheld R of Flight, Cleaving, Fire; 5+ ward armour
15Miners with Steam Drill, FC
Gyro
Cannon
grudge thrower