PDA

View Full Version : Chax and ASF



Hashulaman
02-09-2010, 07:42
Okay it says in the new rules he bestows ASL onto his opponet , How would that on say high elves with ASF? It no longer says the opponet strikes last -regardless of other rules- WOuld the 2 cancel out? Would they go at Initiative? Or would Chakax's great weapon make him Strike last even after the ASF unit?

Little Joe
02-09-2010, 08:04
Yes ASL cancels ASF, but Chakax still has ASL from his twohanded weapon. In all other CC he strikes simultaniously since both would have ASL. Rules are on page 66 of the rulebook.

stripsteak
02-09-2010, 08:11
I hadn't looked at it before, since i don't play liz, but they really could have worded his change better. In most cases when something bestows a special rule on a model it uses a term to indicate it as such...x gives frenzy the model with y has hatred... chakax jsut gets 'his opponent Always Strikes Last' not, his opponent has always strikes last, suffers from always strikes last. Really the only indication you should treat it as the special rule and not just a strait sentence is the capitalization....blah anyway i'm tired and ranting ignore me if you want.

Hashulaman
02-09-2010, 08:17
So Chakax would not go first then?

someone2040
02-09-2010, 08:18
Stripsteak, the wording of the rule is actually worse than that since it states "Automatically" strikes last.
However, the 8th edition FAQ just screws over Chakax so bad. The FAQ has changed it so the opponent gets the ASL special rule.
This of course means, Chakax and his opponent strike simultaneously unless the opponent has ASF (or Chakax does). Basically, screws over Chakax with horrible FAQ ruling.

They should've just kept the 7th edition ruling of "Chakax goes first, end of story". As it stands, Chakax was overcosted before and now he doesn't even go first in a Challenge.

diggerydoom
02-09-2010, 11:41
indeed he is possibly one of the coolest characters but is so bad that even in a specific senario game we fiddle with his rules a little. In games played to win he does not even appear, accept as a standin for a scar-vet model.

Little Joe
02-09-2010, 18:13
So Chakax would not go first then?

Yes never goes first, best he can hope for is simultanious hitting.

Dragoon999
02-09-2010, 18:50
O.K. you guys are jumping to conclussions

1st his FAQ is not giving anyone a rule, read it, don't assume anything

Chakax, The Key to the Eternity Chamber
Change to “When fighting in a challenge, Chakax gains a 5+ ward save and his opponent Always Strikes Last

This is the FAQ word for word exactly as written, no where in this ruling does it say he gives anybody the always strike last special rule.

It specifically states (his opponent strikes last) it does not imply in any way that he gives them the ASL rule.

The FAQ is w/o question saying his opponent strikes last.(period). Which means no special rule is going to save them from getting wacked in the head 1st with his ASL weapon.

stripsteak
02-09-2010, 19:01
It specifically states (his opponent strikes last) it does not imply in any way that he gives them the ASL rule

it does imply it by the capitalization of Always Strikes Last. When they refer to specific special rules they capitalize them. If they meant it purely as a statement they would have just said “When fighting in a challenge, Chakax gains a 5+ ward save and his opponent always strikes last" or wouldn't have changed it at all, since the only change they did was rephrase it from something that was spelled out clearly to something that certainly implies the invocation of a special rule.

Greyfire
02-09-2010, 19:02
I'm pretty sure they're sticking to the convention that "Always Strikes Last" is a reference to the rule ASL while "always strikes last" (all lowercase) is a general statement.

It looks like they're referring to the rule. That's certainly how all the discussions I've seen so far have treated it.

Doh! Ninja'ed!

Dragoon999
02-09-2010, 19:13
it does imply it by the capitalization of Always Strikes Last. When they refer to specific special rules they capitalize them. If they meant it purely as a statement they would have just said “When fighting in a challenge, Chakax gains a 5+ ward save and his opponent always strikes last" or wouldn't have changed it at all, since the only change they did was rephrase it from something that was spelled out clearly to something that certainly implies the invocation of a special rule.

exactly your saying it implies, all they had to do was add the word (gives) to the phrase and you would be correct-however as it is written it says his opponent always strikes last....I dont care if they did it in 10" letters bolded in pink, they did not use the word (give) in this FAQ.

Therefore he always wacks people in a challenge 1st regardless of their rules.

Really they should not have touched it ,but I'll tell you why they did.

In the old wording in the Lizzy handbook while chakax was in a challenge anyone targeting him automatically struck last. This could have been left some to believe that as long as he was in a challenge, anything that targeted him, spells, effects etc. would have to get in line until he swung his mighty mace.

Stop reading it as if they added something, all they did was take out the confusing piece, granted they could have worded it differently as I can see your implication, however it is just that an implication.

I am not guessing, implying or hoping for what they meant. What they wrote means his opponents always strike last, not that they have been given the always strikes last rule.

diggerydoom
04-09-2010, 13:18
It does depend how you read it. Chax gains a 5+ ward and his opponent (gains) Always Strikes Last. The second gains is not in the FAQ but the phrasing implies it to be there. Also the point that Dragoon makes about the old wording does not really seem applicable- the lizardman book says 'any model wishing to attack him'. Attacks only happen in combat.

The capitalisation to Alays Strikes Last from 'automatically strikes last' suggests strongly that the ASL rule is applied to the opponent and therefore simultaneously with Chax.

Ultimate Life Form
04-09-2010, 13:23
Yes, horrible situation.

And can we please return to calling him by his proper name.

theunwantedbeing
04-09-2010, 13:31
Always Strikes First + Always Strikes Last = neither apply and you fight in initituive order.

So a model with ASF fighting Chakax will fight in initiutive order.
ie. before Chakax because he has a great weapon

He's now less useful than before as a result, note he fights simultaneously with anyone that doesn't have ASF because both of them have ASL.

diggerydoom
05-09-2010, 12:28
Yes, horrible situation.

And can we please return to calling him by his proper name.

No- I am trying to save wear and tear of my keyboard :)