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View Full Version : Daemons - Flesh Hounds. Your thoughts?



SiNNiX
05-09-2010, 19:16
I've never been a fan of Flesh Hounds and have always felt they were overpriced at 35 points a piece. What do you guys think? How do you use them with the current edition? I've heard more than one person say they've used them to great effect but I just don't see it. I know they have a 2+ ward save against magic but that just doesn't seem to justify the T4 and no armour with only 2x S5 attacks each. People keep saying they've "improved" with 8th and I just don't see how.

ChrisIronBrow
05-09-2010, 20:01
I felt the same way. The only use I've found for them (and it's a good one) is character assasinations. Take no champion, and they can't get away, charge them into blocks (expecting that they die) and direct all attacks against weak characters.

I've found other than that, flamers are better in every way.

PeG
05-09-2010, 20:34
I agree that flamers are better which is why I take hounds.....

Crushers would compete with flamers for points while hounds primarily compete with screamers, seekers etc.

SiNNiX
05-09-2010, 20:53
Yeah, I already use Fiends and Bloodcrushers for flanks. Flesh Hounds are useless to me.

tmarichards
05-09-2010, 21:30
Flesh Hounds got better from 7th edition because they are now better off with combat res by 2- they now get plus 1 for charging, and their opponent will not get +1 for outnumbering

They just have the same issue as knights now, in that they can't break units just by going into the front anymore so need a bit more tactical nouse to play with instead of their former rush and rend.

Vsurma
05-09-2010, 22:01
Regardless of the +2 CR they start with IF they get the charge (less likely this time round)

However they are far worse in that while last edition they could charge, kill anyone that would otherwise hit back and be happy with their 5+ ward If anyone attacked back.

Now you are virtually guaranteed to take back 10+ attacks, anything that actually hits with any kind of strength is going to kick your ass.

Your paying 18pts per t4 5+ wound, that is expensive!
Your opponent is also likely to be steadfast as mentioned.

The unit will still do well against a lot of things but anything that actually is good in CC, Chaos warriors / marauders, saurus lizardmen, dwarves etc will all beat them even when you charge!

Kevlar
05-09-2010, 22:25
I've never been a fan of Flesh Hounds and have always felt they were overpriced at 35 points a piece. What do you guys think? How do you use them with the current edition? I've heard more than one person say they've used them to great effect but I just don't see it. I know they have a 2+ ward save against magic but that just doesn't seem to justify the T4 and no armour with only 2x S5 attacks each. People keep saying they've "improved" with 8th and I just don't see how.

No armor, don't they get an unmodified 5+? They are better than what most knights can do, especially on the turn after the charge.

macattack428
05-09-2010, 22:44
I'm not a daemon player but I did just play one two hours ago in a tourney. His hounds almost broke my entire flank by themselves. If it wasn't for my dryads being stubborn in the woods, and my treeman running in to save the day, it would have been GG.

SiNNiX
05-09-2010, 23:29
No armor, don't they get an unmodified 5+? They are better than what most knights can do, especially on the turn after the charge.

Nope.

Weapons and Armour:
Teeth and Claws
(hand weapon).

tmarichards
05-09-2010, 23:40
But they do have a 5+ ward save, which is what I think Kevlar was thinking of.

AussieSocks
06-09-2010, 11:24
Undefeated in 8th, owns 2250pts of Daemons...... but doesn't know the "Daemon Rule"? :)

I assume you misread his post.

Flesh hounds are crazy. 2 wounds at T4, 5+ ward, 2 attacks at Str5, WS5.... If there's something that'll win "The Flank", it's them kids....

syypher
06-09-2010, 17:57
Higher points then yes. Cool looking factor for sure though lol :P

Lazarian
06-09-2010, 18:03
They still rock, of course if your going to try to hammer their square pegs into the round hole of front charging a horde then yes, your results may vary from 'good'. However the game involves a fair bit more than charging head first into hordes. In virtually every other situation other than 'charging headfirst into hordes' the fleshhounds do wonders. They are expensive but will kill every warmachine, will take on and slaughter smallish knight/flank units, and in conjunction with flamers will give your opponent a horrible headache.

PeG
06-09-2010, 18:22
everything we have dies if charged into the front of a horde including crushers and GD which are our other options. Going horde ourselves is not really an option even if we need bigger units then in 7th.

Magic and shooting (ie flamers) are the only "safe" ways of dealing with hordes and we max flamers crushers are not an option and compared to core choices I still think that hounds are efficient for flanking, taking out small elite units, warmachines, casters etc.

WarmbloodedLizard
06-09-2010, 18:38
wow. how can anyone call these monsters overpriced? If anything, they are underpriced.

TheKingInYellow
06-09-2010, 19:08
wow. how can anyone call these monsters overpriced? If anything, they are underpriced.

Agreed! Fast movers with 2W at T4, with S5, MR *and* a ward for 35 points? Compare that to any fast cav or war beast on any other list and tell me again how they are underpriced :rolleyes:

Lazarian
06-09-2010, 19:10
In the current rules 35 points seem fair and correct for these guys, they are a good buy for the army and using a 5 man unit of them smartly will almost always reap good dividends. I like them lots, again you cannot bust up a horde but you can bust up most units 15 models or less, especially if you play a more mobile, fast army that can take advantage of enemy missteps in the deployment phase.

SiNNiX
07-09-2010, 05:08
Sorry, I use Fiends to the same effect at just 20 points more per model, and the results are so much better for me. Don't get me wrong, I've tried using Flesh Hounds, and it's not like I just rush them in head first... I've been pretty good about getting them in the flanks of the appropriate units. It's not they don't do anything, but here's my problem.

A unit of 5 of them will die. No questions asked. A unit of 10 is most common for them. However, a unit of 10 Flesh Hounds is 350 points minimum. I have yet to have these guys grant me an extra 350 points during a game, and that's usually how I base my troops: can they give me back their points worth? To me, the answer is no, not when options like Fiends are available.

Oh, and I don't take Flamers. Kind of a common rule of respect among the local tournaments. :) I do just fine with one unit of BC's and one unit of Fiends.

LordoftheBrassThrone
07-09-2010, 12:16
@sinnix, have you ever actually tried running units of 5? I run 2 units of 5, and from all of your previous posts, it seems you just run them straight into the front of large units, and sound surprised you dont get results?
you are supposed to use them to pick on small support units (empire detachments, war machines, gnoblars, small goblin units etc). the only time you would ever ever run them into the front of a large unit is if there is an expensive wizard lord you can kill off.
And by the way, those of you that use karanak (works for the changeling too), think about this. regrowth from the lore of life, says the unit champion is immediately restored. well the army book says they count as unit champions. so if he gets killed off, this nice little spell on them will bring him back to life ;)

PeG
07-09-2010, 13:45
I agree that most daemon uniits are priced at least close to what they should be. Overall daemons and especially mono lists seem to be doing less then great in 8th and I think that for them to be really competitive in 8th they could use either a point drop or something to increase the survival for core infantry. The same goes for any other army that doesnt have access to cheap core infantry which seem to be a staple of 8th ed.

SiNNiX
07-09-2010, 21:06
@ The guy who asked about me taking units of 5, that's the problem. I've taken units of 5 and they always die to combat rez. I'm pretty sure that I said I use them in flanks, not in the front. I may not be the best DOC player in the world, but I know the game well enough to know the outcome of that scenario.

Fiends are so much more viable of a use of points for the purpose that Flesh Hounds are supposed to serve (flanks supporters, war machine & character hunters). For 20 more points, you gain, in comparison to Flesh Hounds:

1. 2x more attacks with -1 to wound (but same armour save modifier due to AP)
2. Stomp attacks
3. +2 Movement (and therefore +4 to marching)
4. Soporific Musk (amazing?)
5. +1 Wound
6. +2 Initiative (HUGE in 8th)
7. Minimum unit size for Fiends is 1... 55 points. Minimum for Flesh Hounds is 5, which is 175 points.

The one thing I'll give Flesh Hounds is the MR, giving them a 2+ ward against Magic, but even then I find them not as worth it as the Fiend.

Also, to another one of the above posters, we can't use any form of Special Characters in our tournaments (this includes character champions like Karanak or Changeling).

Kevlar
07-09-2010, 22:18
Aren't you comparing a rare choice to a special? They don't come out of the same points pool. You can easily field both, especially if as you said you don't take flamers.

LordoftheBrassThrone
08-09-2010, 00:45
the fiends are a rare choice. this means that they compete with crushers and flamers. even if you dont use flamers, as you say, crushers are still included in many armies. i generally play about 1500pts, so by the time ive got my unit of 5 crushers (+HoK) ive spent 350 of my 375 points, before my reaper.
On the other hand, hounds compete with screamers (hahaha), nurglings(meh) and seekers(iffy IMO).
That plus the fiends are very expensive models, dont look that great, whereas the flesh hounds are much financially cheaper point for point, and look pretty amazing. ;)

SiNNiX
09-09-2010, 01:39
It's not as necessary to compare Special units with Rare units anymore, mainly because "choices" are no longer used and it's completely reliant on your army point percentage. It's not like you can have two of this Rare unit or two of that Rare unit. Besides, you might as well compare Flesh Hounds with the Rare units considering there's nothing else in the Special unit selection to compare them to (let's face it).

A majority of your DOC army should be made up of Core infantry anyway. Your Rares and Specials should be few and used very strategically for precise support. Therefore, I basically have to pick and choose whether or not I want Fiends, Bloodcrushers or Flesh Hounds (considering I refuse to take Flamers).

Soul of Iron
09-09-2010, 17:49
I use FH because fiends compete with the points I need for my rare slot flamers. I like having my cake and eating it too.

You know what people dont use enough of? Screamers. These things roxorz mi boxorz.

DaemonReign
09-09-2010, 18:19
FleshHounds were a tad cheap in 7th. In 8th they are a tad expensive. Being Cav they've taken a hit, but since they have two wounds and two good attacks regardless of whether they charge or not they haven't taken as big of a hit as most other Cav units (i.e. lance-formation one wound mounts).

I usually field them 6-8 strong and they usually earn their points back unless they get charged - which happens alot more often in 8th of course..

CaliforniaGamer
09-09-2010, 20:42
I still think hounds are good GIVEN they are special choice.

Fiends absolutely lose to flamers, which can now march and shoot and are stubborn in woods.

But yes, Flamers>>Fiends>Hounds.

w3rm
10-09-2010, 02:08
Feinds are simply amazing. A unit of 4 in 2X2 formation and then a single one for warmachine hunitng.

But flesh hounds are great too. 2 units of 5 and use them to deal with support units.

Hashulaman
10-09-2010, 02:35
Im a little iffy about Flesh Hounds now. I want to try Bloodcrushers with the new rules instead and see if they are any good.