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Agoz
07-09-2010, 23:27
So we're staring a $2 per week campaign at my local store that is supposed to be competitive lists, so I put together what I consider to be a powerful ogre kingdoms list and I'd like a little feedback as to what I could add that would make it better. Though I'd prefer not to add a caster, as I've not had much luck with ogre magic in 8th edition. So, here's my list, any thoughts?


2500pt ogre kingdoms army

Lord:
Tyrant, crown of command, talisman of preservation, sword of might, luck gnoblar 305pts

Heroes:
bruiser, bsb, greatskull, ironcurse icon, mawseeker, ironfist, heavy armor, luck gnoblar, 224pts


Core:
18 ogre bulls, standard 650pts
18 ogre bulls, standard 650pts
8 ironguts, standard, bellower, banner of eternal flame 424pts

41 gnoblar fighters 82pts

special:
gnoblar scraplauncher 165pts


2500pts

drear
07-09-2010, 23:32
for 2500 your going to find yourself struggling against magic, so personally id make room for a slaughtermaster and a butcher, its going to give your bull units alot more survivability and the odd braingobbler can really help out on removing a pesky skirmisher unit or a low leadership horde.
i know you mentioned you dont wish to take a caster but with most armies taking purple sun or other such mass kill spells, you need a way to counter this and really give your bulls somthing nasty for your opponent to worry about.
focus on spamming +toughness and regen/magic resistance, remembering that these spells stack. so with a lvl 4 and a lvl 2 you can get off +2 toughness on a horde of bulls making them t6 and stubborn.
not only will it mean they are damn near impossible to kill, but it will mean your opponent has to eat into his own powerdice pool to dispel them every turn, meaning less magic for you to dispel/worry about.

maybe find a way to include 2 gorgers as with units 0f 18 your going to take alot of damage from warmachines, atleast with gorgers you can take them out earily on or redirect the attention of the warmachines for a turn or two.

id be tempted to give the bsb the crown of command , and make your tyrant the 'unhittable' build with glittering scales, greyback pelt and a cathayan longsword, and add in a nice ward save, so hes ws 7 and -2 to hit, most things are hitting him on 6's, if you can get him and his unit a +t buff hes going to damn near unkillable.

Gaargod
07-09-2010, 23:48
Oh wow. That's not what i expected.

Ok, first things first. You need a wizard. Ogres, more than most races, have a definite choice between 2 lv2s and 1 lv4 in terms of competitiveness, but i still think i would be leaning towards a slaughtermaster. The +4 to dispel is just too big to pass up on, plus he even comes with very passable combat stats (siegebreaker on him just for funsies).

The reason you NEED that wizard is to stop spells getting through which are basically just going to annihilate units (pick any uber spell, more or less...)/buff their troops to pwn yours/nerf your troops into oblivion. Its very, very easy for that to happen without defence.

Is +1 ward save really worth 25pts? Talisman of Preservation over Wyrdstone necklace is not a big upgrade, and those 25pts can be put to better use elsewhere. Also, is crown really necessary? The whole point of ogre deathstars is to win combat massively by lots of kills - if you're losing so badly you can't reasonably live without stubborn, something has probably gone badly wrong, so you're screwed anyways. try Tenderizer instead of sword of might - the extra umph from combat res (challenge stuff!) is worth its weight in gold. Thundermace is also a possibility, but 1/3 miss hurts.


1 Scraplauncher is insufficient. Take 2 or 3, or don't bother. Think of the famous guard motto - take 3 men to shoot something, because 1 will miss and the other will be dead.

Take 2 gorgers. Artillery is a pain and gorgers chew through them like no tomorrow. Failing that, pinning down untis is still awesome.


As you may have noticed, these things require points. That's because, personally, i don't believe in ogre 'deathstars'. Yes, 3 ranks (i assume you're going horde) of smashing things is great fun, but that plan kind of fails against a lot of targets. You don't have the magic, offensive characters, shooting or movement to back up 3 big expensive combat units. Drop one of the bull units and use the points elsewhere.

Agoz
07-09-2010, 23:51
I really have trouble justifying a slaughtermaster, as I generally can't get more that two spells off in a magic phase with all the anti-magic items on the playing field my opponents seem to enjoy bringing. And even if I do get the spells off, it only takes a level 4 a roll of 3+ to dispel them on their own magic phase. I am worried about magic protection though, but its a difficult hole to fill without spending 300+ pts extra on casters. I did take the greatskull though, which should help drop some of the powerdice coming at one of the hoards.

I like the other ideas though, I'll try and get some room for a pair of gorgers, though I might try a unit of 15 trappers instead to save some points. Any other comments?

drear
08-09-2010, 01:04
i can understand your reluctance on taking a lvl 4, but even if your getting only 2 spells a turn off, and they are getting dispelled on 1 or two powerdice in your opponents turn, your still lowering their powerdice and giving them other places to spend their powerdice than purple sunning your horde.
another nasty trick would be to give a lvl 2 the skull mantle, and use him to hunt skirmisher units or even lone cavalry and make them panic through braingobbler, testing on a reduced leadership.

i think with the horde, your either going to hit their line and power through each unit on their line 1 unit at a time, or your going to find yourself held up with a smaller stubborn unit and flanked very easily.
horde units are only really designed to take on other hordes or to hold up somthing, with ogres being 35 points as a base line a horde really means that if a unit happens to get held up and made to flee your loosing a good 1000 points of bulls + character.
id maybe reduce the number per unit to 6 or even 9 and take banners in all the units, this way if you roll up blood and glory you atleast have a chance at winning and having a decent fortatude. or if given the watchtower you can atleast fit a unit in the tower .

my worry with the greatskull as a magical defence is that the spell has to specifically target the unit. most of the spells that will and can kill you will not target you but shoot your way, cracks call, purple sun, penultimate pendulum, comet..etc

Agoz
08-09-2010, 02:01
I know for a fact that two of my opponents are dark elf players with level 4 casters, and two of my opponents are high elf players with teclis and banner of sorcery, (also theres a deamon player who will probably bring kairos) so I'm just not sure how much of an impact a slaughtermaster is really going to have against that kind of magical power.

Edit:

Alright, heres a revised list with a slaughtermaster, I dropped the gnoblar fighters and the scraplauncher, plus three ogres, I also moved the magic items around a little to give my tyrant the tenderizer, I added gnoblar trappers to attack warmachines.

2500pt ogre kingdoms army

Lord:
Tyrant, talisman of preservation, tenderizer, iron-curse icon, luck gnoblar 305pts

Slaughtermaster, book of Ashur, wyrdstone necklace, luck gnoblar 295pts

Heroes:
bruiser, bsb, crown of command, mawseeker, enchanted shield, heavy armor, luck gnoblar, 214pts


Core:
17 ogre bulls, standard 615pts
17 ogre bulls, standard 615pts
7 ironguts, standard, bellower, banner of eternal flame 376pts
13 gnoblar trappers 78pts

2498pts