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CelticDawn
17-09-2010, 16:47
Ok, so I have purchased the Island of Blood Box and have ome up with the following force utilising this box, the battalion box, and a few extra miniatures I have yet to purchase. Would like all comments and criticism on this list as it has been a long time since I have been playing and wish to put something together that can not only stand up but also win!

So here goes with the list I have come up with:

Lord
Warlord with Heavy Armour, Hand Weapon, Halberd, Foul Pendant & Biting Blade - 133pts

Heroes
Warlock Engineer with Level 1 Wizard upgrade, Hand Weapon, Warp Pistol, Warp Energy Condenser & Warpstone Armour - 123pts

Plague Priest with Hand Weapon, Plague Censer and Warp Token on a Great Pox Rat - 161pts

Chieftan with Heavy Armour, Rat Hound Bodyguard, Hand Weapon, Great Weapon & Battle Standard - 79pts

Total Points for Heroes - 363pts

Core

Clanrats 40 Strong with Light Armour, Shields, Hand Weapons, Spears, Musician, Standard Bearer & Clawleader - 220pts

Clanrats 20 Strong with Light Armour, Shields, Hand Weapons, Musician, Standard Bearer, Clawleader & Warpfire Thrower - 180pts

Clanrats 20 Strong with Light Armour, Shields, Hand Weapons, Musician, Standard Bearer, Clawleader & Rattling Gun - 165pts

Stormvermin 20 Strong with Heavy Armour, Hand Weapon, Halberd, Musician, Standard Bearer & Fangleader - 165pts

Giant Rats 12 Strong with Packmaster - 44pts

Giant Rats 12 Strong with Packmaster - 44pts

Total Points for Core - 818pts

Special

Rat Ogres 2 Strong with Skweel Gnawtooth - 188pts

Rat Ogres 2 Strong with Master Moulder & Shock-Prod - 138pts

Plague Monks 20 Strong with 2 Hand Weapons, Musician, Standard Bearer & Bringer-of-the-Word - 165pts

Plague Censer Bearers 5 Strong with Plague Censers - 80pts

Poisoned Wind Globadiers 5 Strong with Poisoned Wind Mortar attached weapon team - 115pts

Total Points for Specials - 686pts

GRAND TOTAL - 2000pts

Scarecrow
17-09-2010, 19:53
Warpstone armor on the Engineer isn't all that important unless yu want him in combat, then he really should take the Warlock-Aligned-Weapon as well to make him somewhat of an ok fighter character (more like strong chieftain who can cast magic). I'd just keep him with the WEC and put him in a unit of slaves.

That's another thing. Slaves in this edition are really useful. And I think it's pretty safe to say that they are essential and close to one of the better units we can utilize. Problem is you need them in large units (IMO. Some people still field 'em in units of 21 or so, but since redirecting is neigh impossible and chargers can redirect when their target flees). Good news is Clan Rat models without armor can be used as slaves GW even suggests such.

Plague Censer Bearers are null in this edition. I3 means they'll be attacking last against any elite units and simultaneously with most core. They'll just get eaten.

And your BSB can't take a great weapon as the battle standard requires one hand to wield and a great weapon requires 2. And the Censer on your priest isn't worth it either, IMHO. If you put him in with the monks you'll be taking 5 toughness tests a combat while your opponent will only be taking 3 max. Give him a flail and he'll wreck havoc.

over all you need larger units. I never field less than 35 Clan Rats, 30 Monks or 40 slaves. Units of 2 Rat Ogres are ok, so I've heard, but I like to field 'em in blocks of 6 so they can break ranks. Globadiers should be fielded in units of 9-10 to be effective.

Sliver
18-09-2010, 13:29
And your BSB can't take a great weapon as the battle standard requires one hand to wield and a great weapon requires 2.


I'd say you're wrong, standard does not require a hand. Thou alot of armies have a rule 'cannot take any mundane equipment other than light/heavy armour' to prevent them from taking shield, additional, great weapon or halberd. But thats not the case for skaven. My BSB got his banner on his back.

You cant combine biting blade and halberd, so I suggest dropping one of them. As Scarecrow said, drop warpstone armour on the warlock, keep him out of combat. The pox rat will make your plague priest cavalry, thus he wont get look out sir rolls. I would drop it, or he might die easily to a stonethrower or cannon shot.

Your BSB is one of your most important characters, for rerolling any failed leadership test within 12. I suggest you give him some protection. Shield+dragon helm will give him a 3+ save for very few points, other popular choices includes Armour of Silvered steel+luck stone (2+ save, one reroll), talisman of preservation (+4 ward) etc.

Spears are not very useful on Clan rats, rather just buy more rats. Also you forgot to mention what weapon team the first Clan rat block has, thou it looks like you've payed the points. Clan rats, storm vermin and plague monks should be 30+ strong to be efficient now in 8th, slaves can be 20 blocks, but alot of people prefare them bigger aswell.

Skweel is generally considered to expensive. Possibly if you have a unit of 6 Rat ogers, he might be a decent investment, otherwise, no.

You lack hard hitters. I'd suggest to look at some of the following to add some punch: a Screaming bell or Plague furnace, a doom wheel, a warplightning cannon and/or a hellpit abomination.

witchunter180
18-09-2010, 14:24
over all you need larger units. I never field less than 35 Clan Rats, 30 Monks or 40 slaves. Units of 2 Rat Ogres are ok, so I've heard, but I like to field 'em in blocks of 6 so they can break ranks.

I agree, no less than 30-35 clanrats. 20 clanrats die quick (especially if nearby weapons misfire, and you know it'll happen lol). And extra rat ogres just give some extra hits, so not a bad idea there either.

Scarecrow
18-09-2010, 19:44
Hit up underempire.net for some good ratty help. I like it allot better than here since it's tailored specifically toward skaven and runs faster on my machine.

CelticDawn
20-09-2010, 09:56
Thanks for the advice everyone, I have taken it all on board and come up with this revised list. I know this does not address everything, particularly the survivability of the battle standard bearer but here goes, please let me know if this is a better list or not:

Lord
Warlord with Heavy Armour, Hand Weapon, Halberd, Foul Pendant & Poisoned Attacks - 138pts

Heroes
Warlock Engineer with Hand Weapon, Warplock Pistol, Warp Energy Condenser & Level 1 Wizard - 93pts

Plague Priest with Hand Weapon and Flail - 104pts

Chieftan with Battle Standard Bearer, Hand Weapon & Great Weapon (The standard is modeled held in his Tail so recon I can get away with this one!) - 74pts

Total Hero cost - 271pts

Core
30 Clanrats with Light Armour, Shields, Hand Weapons, Spears, Musician, Standard Bearer, Clawleader & Rattling Gun attachment - 225pts

30 Clanrats with Light Armour, Shields, Hand Weapons, Musician, Standard Bearer, Clawleader & Warpfire Thrower attachment - 225pts

20 Skavenslaves with Hand Weapons - 40pts

18 Stormvermin with Heavy Armour, Hand Weapons, Halberds, Musician, Standard Bearer & Fangleader - 151pts

16 Giant Rats with 2 Packmasters - 64pts

Total Core cost - 705pts

Specials

2 Rat Ogres and Skweel Gnawtooth (I know he is expensive but I think worth it and the model is too cool not to include!) - 188pts

2 Rat Ogres and Master Moulder with Shock-Prod - 138pts

20 Plague Monks with Two Hand Weapons, Musician, Standard Bearer & Bringer-of-the-Word - 165pts

5 Warplock Jezzails - 100pts

8 Poisoned Wind Globadiers with Poisoned Wind Mortar attachment - 145pts

Total Specials cost - 736pts

Rare

Doomwheel - 150pts

Total Cost of the Force - 2000pts

CelticDawn
20-09-2010, 10:13
Ok, let me put some words down as to my thought process for the list above. I removed the Plague Cense Bearers and split up the Clanrats making some of them Skavenslaves.

I also reduced the Stormvermin Unit with the thinking that my Warlord and Battle Standard Bearer will be attached to that unit.

The Plague Priest will join the Plague Monks while the Warlock Engineer will join the unit of Poisoned Wind Globadiers.

The addition of the Doomwheel was something I always wanted to do but didn't think I had enough points (shows how dumb I was).

Tactics wise I have not played Warhammer in a long long time so could use any advice on running the above list. My thoughts were to have the Stormvermin centre flaked by the Clanrats with Weapon Teams on their flanks. Slaves ahead of the Stormvermin to soak up any missile fire on the way into close combat. Have the Rat Ogres running close flanking on the core force.

On one extreme flank run the Doomwheel supported by the Giant Rats while on the other have the Plague Monks with the Poisoned Wind Globadiers bringing up the rear. Warplock Jezzails to be placed at the back in the best high-up firing position across the battlefield as possible.

Any alternative (better?) options out there please give me some tips.

Scarecrow
20-09-2010, 15:36
Chieftan with Battle Standard Bearer, Hand Weapon & Great Weapon (The standard is modeled held in his Tail so recon I can get away with this one!) - 74pts

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BSB can't take great weapons. It's not a matter of modeling it's a matter of rules limitations. They can't even take shields.

20 Monks is still too few. they're going to take casualties and then run.

AtmaTheWanderer
20-09-2010, 22:51
Why are you spreading the Rat Ogres into two units and, in effect, "wasting" Skweel's Exceptional Pack benefit? The only reason to take Skweel is for this perk, and having it on only two rat ogres is just not worth it.

Combine the two rat ogres into one pack with skweel, and the points for a master-bred is one of the best upgrades of any army in WHFB. That small of a points cost for +1 WS, +1 Init, and +1A is a PHENOMINAL buy in the current ruleset.

If you're not going to combine the packs, then drop Skweel.

Master moulders are not worth it because the requirement to be in the front rank pretty much just means you're paying more points than a rat ogre for a model that's going to swing one time and then get killed. Master moulders must be in the front rank, this is in the faq.



BSB can't take great weapons. It's not a matter of modeling it's a matter of rules limitations. They can't even take shields.

Skaven BSB has no limitation on what he can take for equipment, except for not being able to take magic if he takes a magic banner.

Scarecrow
21-09-2010, 02:20
Skaven BSB has no limitation on what he can take for equipment, except for not being able to take magic if he takes a magic banner.

Must have changed it and I missed it. That's kinda retarded though...at least it doesn't make sense. Might as well be able to take 2hw as well as a great weapon.

Gorak
21-09-2010, 04:18
all armies can now take two handed weapons/extra hand weapons as per rule book faq.

Now as for list well 25 strong minium for clan rats, You need a grey seer IMHO as he has the same ld as a warlord and his damage output is much higher,not to mention the +4 to dispell. I'd drop the stormvermin completey bump the plague monks upto 30-35 add a furnace to the plague priest. drop the giant rats for 40 slaves, drop the jezzials and the poisioned wind globdiers add onther unit of clanrats with the mortar drop the spears hand weapon and shield is much better, I find the 6+ parry save pays for it's self every game. as suggested combine the rat-ogers into one unit and drop the master moulder and if point are availble bump them upto 6 as skweel bonus is too good to waste on just rat-ogers,ok so thast alot here's a sample with trying to keep the fell of your army. you can always swap the warlord back in but I personaly like grey seers waaaaay better.

2000 Pts - Skaven Roster

Grey Seer @ 270 pts (General)
Foul Pendant

Plague Priest @ 311 pts (Plague Censer)
Plague Furnace
Talisman of Preservation

Chieftain (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 72 pts (Halberd;Battle Standard Bearer)

40 Skavenslaves @ 80 pts (Hand Weapon)

30 Clanrats @ 225 pts (fullcommand; Shield)
Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team

30 Clanrats @ 225 pts (fullcommand; Shield)
Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team

30 Clanrats @ 220 pts (fullcommand; Shield)
Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team

30 Plague Monks @ 235 pts (fullcommand)

6 Rat Ogres @ 356 pts
Packmaster
Skweel Gnawtooth


Total Roster Cost: 1994

the basic idea is to hold scary units witht he slaves then warpfire them/spells and smash em in the flanks with the furnace or skweel and his rat ogers. If you like the doomwheel or already have one you can drop the furnace for this.

CelticDawn
21-09-2010, 08:09
Gorak, thank you I actually quite like the list you have offered. Going to have a little play around and come back with a final version.

CelticDawn
21-09-2010, 12:10
Ok here is a revised list taking into account all of your helpful guidance but keeping some things that I really want to have a go at fielding (plus fits fluff wise with my ideas behind the force).

Lord

Grey Seer with Foul Pendant - 270pts

Heroes

Warlock Engineer with Warplock Pistol, Warp Energy Condenser & Level 1 Wizard upgrade - 93pts

Plague Priest with Plague Censer & Talisman of Protection on Plague Furnace - 281pts

Chieftan with Battle Standard Bearer and Halberd - 73pts

Total Cost of Heroes - 447pts

Core

30 Clanrats with Hand Weapons and Shields with full command and Poisoned Wind Mortar - 220pts

30 Clanrats with Hand Weapons and Shields with full command and Warpfire Thrower - 225pts

30 Skavenslaves with Hand Weapons - 60pts

30 Skavenslaves with Hand Weapons - 60pts

12 Giant Rats and 2 Packmasters - 52pts

Total Cost of Core - 617pts

Specials

4 Rat Ogres with Skweel Gnawtooth, additional Packmaster & Master-breed Rat Ogre - 291pts

30 Plague Monks with Musician and Standard Bearer - 225pts

Total Cost of Specials - 516pts

Rare

Doomwheel - 150pts

Total Force Cost - 2000pts

Plague Furnace obviously hauled along by the Plague Monks forming the core of the force flanked by the Clanrats, one of which containes the Grey Seer the other the Battle Standard Bearer. The Skavenslaves are in front of them forming a meat shield for advancing across the field. The Warlock Engineer is in one of these units. The Doomwheel and Giant Rats run one flank with the Rat Ogres running the other. I really wanted to try and keep the Poisoned Wind Globadiers in the force but could not finds the points (Those models are too cool to leave out of a Skaven force).

Let me know whether this is any better than my previous attempts.

AtmaTheWanderer
21-09-2010, 14:27
Starting to look really solid. I'd suggest you drop the pistol off the warlock engineer and use the points to buy the Ironcurse Icon from the enchanted items section of the BRB for a character you plan to put in a unit. It is the best 5 point magic item ever created, especially in the current iteration of the game.

Scarecrow
21-09-2010, 15:11
12 Giant Rats are only going to be easy victory points. Drop those ofr 26 more slaves (blocks of 43) and you should be fine.

CelticDawn
28-09-2010, 17:54
Thank you guys

Scarecrow thanks for the advice, I know that the Giant Rats are easy Victory Points but I don't expect much from them other than to absorb Doomwheel Lightning on the way to the enemy and then just add numbers to anoher units attack once in range. Plus I love the models and concept.

Here is a final list.

Lord

Urdish Vilehorn (Greyseer) - With Foul Pendant - 270pts

Heroes

Ratchitt (Warlock Engineer) - With Warplock Pistol, Warp Energy Condenser & Level 1 Wizard upgrade - 93pts

Festic the Infectious (Plague Priest) - With Plague Censer, Talisman of Protection, Ironcurse Icon & Plague Furnace - 286pts

Skreet Verminkin (Chieftan) - With Halberd, Battle Standard Bearer & Dragonhelm - 83pts

Total Hero Cost - 462pts

Core

Qretch Toothsnapper's Maw Rats (Clanrats - 30 Strong) - With Shields, Full Command & Poisoned Wind Mortar - 220pts

Skreem Warptaker's Claw Rats (Clanrats - 30 Strong) - With Shields, Full Command & Warpfire Thrower - 225pts

Skreet's Thawning (Skavenslaves - 30 Strong) - With Hand Weapons - 60pts

Skreet's Scurriers (Skavenslaves - 30 Strong) - With Hand Weapons - 60pts

Varner Lashniker's Pets (Giant Rats - 9 Strong + Packmaster) - 35pts

Total Core Cost - 600pts

Specials

Skweel Gnawtooth's Chosen (Rat Ogres - 4 Strong) - With Master Bred Rat Ogre & Skweel Gnawtooth - 283pts

Morslitch Biletooth's Apoxium (Plague Monks - 30 Strong) - With Full Command - 235pts

Total Special Cost - 518pts

Rare

Snatchitt's Chariot (Doomwheel) - 150pts

Total Force Cost - 2000pts