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Ultimate Life Form
18-09-2010, 05:17
Alright, found a tricky one.

The spell Regrowth says it can, and indeed will, 'resurrect' Champions. Sounds easy so far. However the problem lies with the definition of 'resurrection', which the rules fail to give.

Some Champions have access to Magic Items. How does this work? Is the Champion brought back with all the equipment he had before, or does it count like you get an entirely 'new' Champion model?

While this may sound obvious, it gets more complicated now. What if the Champion had an item that is One Use Only? Like the Blood Statuette of Spite or Talisman of Loec? Is upon 'resurrection' the power of the artifact restrored as well?

While the intention of the spell is quite clear, the rules are not, and thus I would like this to be discussed, in order to find arguments that would substantiate one view or the other, in case this question ever pops up.

SiNNiX
18-09-2010, 05:35
Some Champions have access to Magic Items. How does this work? Is the Champion brought back with all the equipment he had before, or does it count like you get an entirely 'new' Champion model?

The champion for every unit is specific to that unit. If the champion of your unit wielded a magic item, he is brought back with the magic item. The "resurrection" is the reanimation process of this specific champion.


While this may sound obvious, it gets more complicated now. What if the Champion had an item that is One Use Only? Like the Blood Statuette of Spite or Talisman of Loec? Is upon 'resurrection' the power of the artifact restrored as well?

Once again, this resurrection should be seen as the simple reanimation of the champion that was just alive. It restores the champion to the exact state it was in the moment before it was slain. Therefore, any One Use Only items that were activated before his death are still lost into oblivion. The rules for One Use Only items and abilities are also quite clear.



Damn good questions though, brother. :)

sulla
18-09-2010, 06:08
While the intention of the spell is quite clear, the rules are not, and thus I would like this to be discussed, in order to find arguments that would substantiate one view or the other, in case this question ever pops up.I think you're making this too difficult for yourself. There's no reason to suspect the champion would be ressurected without any of his equiipment, mundane or magical (That's what the model was equipped with when they died, after all). And there's also no reason to suspect his equipment would be restored to some better state than it was at the time of his death; so used or destroyed magic items would remain just that.

T10
18-09-2010, 10:47
It seems reasonable to assume that it is the slain champion model is restored in the same state as when slain (except it has recovered a number of wounds).

After all, it allows the unit to "recover" lost wounds, models are "resurrected" and the unit cannot be taken beyond its starting size. It should be obvious that we are dealing with the units original members being restored to life rather than models being "born" into the unit.

-T10

theunwantedbeing
18-09-2010, 13:13
You wont get to use one use only items if you've already used them.
But other items will continue to work.

ie. a potion once drunk won't work, but a sword of might will keep working

Ultimate Life Form
18-09-2010, 15:42
So if a champion who suffered from a special condition, like for example having his toughness reduced by the strike of the Blade of Nurglitch, would be resurrected with the debuff still in effect?

I now remember there was this discussion a year and a half or so ago what would happen if Vlad von Carstein had his Toughness reduced to 0 and be resurrected by the Carstein ring, I suppose it's the same case?

It sounds reasonable, but there is nothing in the rules that would substantiate one or the other, but I hoped the new edition had maybe brougt about some new insight...

But now comes a tricky one. What about regular Rank and File who were dispatched by the Blade of Nurglitch? The Blade would have lowered their toughness. So upon resurrection, unless all are resurrected, how do we know which kind was resurrected? Can we choose it? And also this would lead to members of the same unit not having identical stats, isn't that illegal? :confused::confused::confused:

T10
18-09-2010, 21:59
If you play it that the character is resurrected in the same condition as when he was killed, then yes: any permanent penalties apply in the same way as permanent bonuses.

However, you are already in uncharted territory. The rules don't take these things into consideration, so you'll need to work out how to resolve the stranger situations with your opponent.

For example, a champion that is wounded repeatedly with the Blade of Nurglitch may have his Toughness reduced to 0 (I seem to recall). Having a champion with T0 revived seems very odd. I would suggest treating the champion as "completely dead" and ignore him for the purpose of restoring wounds to the unit.

-T10

SiNNiX
19-09-2010, 02:22
If you play it that the character is resurrected in the same condition as when he was killed, then yes: any permanent penalties apply in the same way as permanent bonuses.

However, you are already in uncharted territory. The rules don't take these things into consideration, so you'll need to work out how to resolve the stranger situations with your opponent.

For example, a champion that is wounded repeatedly with the Blade of Nurglitch may have his Toughness reduced to 0 (I seem to recall). Having a champion with T0 revived seems very odd. I would suggest treating the champion as "completely dead" and ignore him for the purpose of restoring wounds to the unit.

-T10

UHgreed! However ULF, as T10 said, the rules alone don't answer your question. A little creativity and cooperation is going to be necessary in order to resolve something like that (especially in T10's example of someone dying by being reduced to T0). Wait... speaking of which... is Toughness relevant to your name, T10? I mean, if this was pretty obvious, I apologize. But if it is, I just now made the connection. :p

T10
19-09-2010, 09:35
It can be read as Toughness 10. However, the origin is a bit indirect. T is for Terminator, and I often use squads of 10 Terminators in my chaos Space Marine armies.

-T10

SiNNiX
19-09-2010, 15:50
It can be read as Toughness 10. However, the origin is a bit indirect. T is for Terminator, and I often use squads of 10 Terminators in my chaos Space Marine armies.

-T10

Damn, an avid 40k player...

Just when I was starting to like you! :p

theunwantedbeing
19-09-2010, 15:56
You only die when your toughness/strength/wounds are reduced to 0 or lower.

So you could conveivably resurrect a champion who has had his toughness reduced to 0 and he would not immediately die.
However he would be auto-wounded as the to-wound chart has no toughness 0 on it.

Similarly if his strength was 0 he'de not be able to wound anything unless he had killing blow, poison or a weapon that increased his strength.

SiNNiX
19-09-2010, 19:45
You only die when your toughness/strength/wounds are reduced to 0 or lower.

So you could conveivably resurrect a champion who has had his toughness reduced to 0 and he would not immediately die.
However he would be auto-wounded as the to-wound chart has no toughness 0 on it.

Similarly if his strength was 0 he'de not be able to wound anything unless he had killing blow, poison or a weapon that increased his strength.

I suppose you could definitely argue this, but you'll get alot of RAW vs RAI on this one.