PDA

View Full Version : Throne of Vines effects.. on or off when dispelled?



mishari26
18-09-2010, 19:27
Hi, this situation arose with my friend, Highelves vs. Empire.

My Archmage had Throne of Vines RiP, and also Shield of Thorns RiP on a unit of spearmen in combat with a unit of greatswords.

on my turn the Shield of Thorns is easy to determine. 2D6 str 4 hits.

on my opponent's turn, he dispels the Throne of Vines, so the question is, what is the str of the Shield of Thorns now?

my interpretation was: the str should be 4, since the spell was cast while the Throne was in effect, and it was str 4, and that it doesn't drop to str 3. so basically the version of the spell is determined at the "time of casting", and stays that way regardless of Throne being up or down. because the spell says:
"Furthermore, the Wizard's castings of following spells have the additional benefit below (it does not change the effects of spells that have already been cast)". so it clearly says that if Shields was cast from before as Str3, and I later cast Throne, it doesn't go up to Str4. so I'm saying that the spell sticks to the state in which it was originally cast. since it doesn't go up, it shouldn't go down either.

my friend's interpretation was: the str should be 3. since the previous paragraph of the spell says "Whilst the spell is in effect..", and later in 2nd paragraph says "Furthermore..".
so under my friend's opinion, the str would become 3 whether the Throne was dispelled after, or Throne was cast after. which to me seems unfair since if he's going by "Whilst the spell is in effect", then if Throne was cast later, the Str should go up to 4. yet this contradicts the later sentence in parentheses "(it does not change the effects of spells that have already been cast)"

Anyone can help us? we eventually diced it.

Yellow Commissar
18-09-2010, 20:52
I can't convince your friend to play things your way. You are just going to have to come to an agreement with him. Easiest way is to play it his way. I would just take a different lore.

As for the actual rule, I agree with you. The spell says that the castings of the spells have additional benefits if Throne is in play when they are cast. I don't really understand his argument at all. I believe Shield would have remained strength 4.

Really, though, all the logic and discussion may not change his mind at all. It seems that some players just become narrowminded when addressing rules that dramatically effect the game they are playing or the army they play with. In order to play with them, the more reasonable and openminded of us must find a way to agree with them how we are going to play it. The only other option is to find other people to play. Again, I would just choose a different lore next time. Maybe a few Purple Suns will make him more reasonable until a FAQ addresses it. ;)

theunwantedbeing
18-09-2010, 21:08
Seems it just boosts it upon the casting of the spell and the spell then stays that way regardless of whether Throne of Vines stays in play or not.

Dragoon999
18-09-2010, 22:19
The strength of spells boosted by TOV is determined at time of casting, wether TOV stays in play does not affect the spell already cast.

frapermax
19-09-2010, 16:49
I'm sorry but I cannot agree. Throne is a RiP spell for a reason. If it is not in play (because it is dispelled), it has no effect.
I don't see why everything has to be maxed out all the time. As if Lore of Life (or any new lore) needs a boost.

theunwantedbeing
19-09-2010, 17:04
I'm sorry but I cannot agree. Throne is a RiP spell for a reason. If it is not in play (because it is dispelled), it has no effect.
I don't see why everything has to be maxed out all the time. As if Lore of Life (or any new lore) needs a boost.

2+ to ignore miscasts and boosting subsequent spellcasting isnt an effect is it?

Note it doesnt boost spells already in play, only subsequent castings of that spell. There's nothing unfair about it. (except how you get to apply the effect first to ignore a micast if you cast it irresistably of course :P).

Ultimate Life Form
19-09-2010, 17:17
Sorry, but spells' effects are determined by the conditions present when they're cast, period. I'm not gonna retroactively decrease the number of Regrown models only because you managed to dispel the Throne.

Loopstah
19-09-2010, 19:45
The spell doesn't change once you've cast it if ToV is dispelled as ToV has no effect on the spell once cast.

mishari26
19-09-2010, 21:07
I don't see why everything has to be maxed out all the time.

actually this is exactly what I'm saying, the shield of thorns is NOT maxed out all the time.

take this example. Throne of Vines is off. I cast Shield of Thorns first. it will be Str3.

I later cast Throne of Vines, then the Shield of Thorns str does NOT jump to 4. (this is explicitly said in the spell description, no ambiguity there).

so you're mistaken frapermax, no one is saying the Thorns would go to Str 4 after Vines gets cast later.

All everyone's saying is that the Str is determined at the time of casting the spell, and it STAYS the same for the duration of the spell. regardless of whether or not Vines comes into play later (or goes away).