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bilorca
21-09-2010, 10:06
does the effect of a miscat effect the mage and the unit with The Banner of the World Dragon ?

Atrahasis
21-09-2010, 10:09
Yes. Miscasts are not spells.

Fubar
21-09-2010, 10:50
Yes. Miscasts are not spells.

Miscast damage is classed as magical attacks, as highlighted on page 5 of the warhammer Faq v1

"..... Hits inflicted by rolls on the miscast table are Treated as magical attacks"

So no a unit with banner of the world dragon would be immune to those effects, however I would assume that you would still suffer the other effects of the miscasts, removal of power dice, removal of wizard levels etc.

T10
21-09-2010, 10:54
The key point here is that the banner protects against spells.

-T10

Fubar
21-09-2010, 11:10
The key point here is that the banner protects against spells.

-T10

I agree with you on this point, although perhaps it's a bit of a grey area, as it is damage because of the result of casting a spell, but it can always be settled with a dice roll if you can't agree ^^

Korraz
21-09-2010, 11:13
No. This is clear as day. Or will you let me ban your magic weapons and wardsaves?

narrativium
21-09-2010, 11:23
Miscasts aren't spells, that's straightforward. The grey area would be lore attributes (e.g. can Lore of Life restore a wound to a hero bearing the Banner of the World Dragon?).

Fubar
21-09-2010, 11:27
No. This is clear as day. Or will you let me ban your magic weapons and wardsaves?

I wouldn't say it's "clear as day" I'd say it's quite foggy with the risk of rain.

Withought an FAQ on this point I would leave it up to the people playing the game to decide.

Fubar
21-09-2010, 11:33
Well looks like I'm outnumbered, so I'll be cowering beneath my umbrella.

narrativium
21-09-2010, 11:35
It's not foggy. With items like the Ring of Hotek and the Hellheart about, you can easily miscast without casting the spell. They're not spell effects.

mishari26
21-09-2010, 13:05
I agree that a miscast is independent of the spell or the spell's effects.

therefor the Banner has nothing to do with it.

Korraz
21-09-2010, 14:25
Miscasts aren't spells, that's straightforward. The grey area would be lore attributes (e.g. can Lore of Life restore a wound to a hero bearing the Banner of the World Dragon?).

The Lore Attributes are part of the spell. Just think of it as an addition that every spell has in common. Every life spell has "Restore a Lifepoint" in it's text.

Damocles8
21-09-2010, 14:36
I was just coming into the rules forum to ask the same question....

TheTrueSloth
21-09-2010, 14:42
The Lore Attributes are part of the spell. Just think of it as an addition that every spell has in common. Every life spell has "Restore a Lifepoint" in it's text.

I haven't seen anything to date regarding this in the exact context you put. I could well have missed something mind.

It's pretty obvious the Lore Attribute triggers when you cast a spell from said lore, but as the RBRB defines it, its' a special rule that applies to spells of that lore, not that the spell's Lore attribute is part of the same spell.

Which is important for bits of kit like in the WoC AB where there's a special item that pinches a spell off an opponent (provided it doesn't gain wounds back) - which would mean you could never pinch a Lore of Life spell ever. As it stands, its' a special rule that takes effect when you cast a spell from a set lore, which is different and somewhat ambiguous.

Toodles

Korraz
21-09-2010, 16:38
The WoC item can NEVER copy a Lore of Life spell.

knightwire
21-09-2010, 16:47
Miscast damage is classed as magical attacks, as highlighted on page 5 of the warhammer Faq v1

"..... Hits inflicted by rolls on the miscast table are Treated as magical attacks"

So no a unit with banner of the world dragon would be immune to those effects, however I would assume that you would still suffer the other effects of the miscasts, removal of power dice, removal of wizard levels etc.


Sorry Fubar, another against you. :) BotWD make the unit immune to Spell effects, not magical attacks.

TheKingInYellow
21-09-2010, 19:51
The WoC item can NEVER copy a Lore of Life spell.

Why not?




10char

Korraz
21-09-2010, 20:04
Because every lore of life spell restores life points, which is strictly forbidden by the item.

Yrrdead
21-09-2010, 22:19
Lets not get into this in this thread. Instead we can start a new thread called Lore Attributes Discussion. Which will clear up the WoC question as a consequence.

AlphariusOmegon20
22-09-2010, 04:42
The WoC item can NEVER copy a Lore of Life spell.

Wrong, You CAN pinch Life spells with Third Eye. The only spell you're restricted in using after pinching is Regrowth.

You can still use the others, because you don't get the lore attribute anyways.

Atrahasis
22-09-2010, 07:41
Why wouldn't you get the lore attribute? The lore attribute is a special rule that applies to the spells, and there's nothing to say you need to know the spell or the lore for it to apply.

Casting a lore of life spell by any means allows the healing of models, so Third Eye is prohibited from stealing them.

TheTrueSloth
22-09-2010, 15:50
Why wouldn't you get the lore attribute? The lore attribute is a special rule that applies to the spells, and there's nothing to say you need to know the spell or the lore for it to apply.

Right.


Casting a lore of life spell by any means allows the healing of models, so Third Eye is prohibited from stealing them.

The point I think others were getting at is the spell itself (save for Regrowth) does not restore wounds, only the Lore Attribute does for all of them, which is a special effect related to the spell cast rather than being part of the spell itself.

I'd agree with Yrrdead though, wrong place for this discussion to continue.

Toodles