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View Full Version : 2500 Skaven V Empire, Dead Hard Battle, need help.



shinankoku
21-09-2010, 14:50
Hello, I've got a battle with Empire. This guy's been owning everyone here with 8 warmachines (Mutliple Cannons, Morters, HBVGs, Hell-what-its-Batterys). Everyone's hoping I can blunt with with rats. Here's my list, tell me what you think:

Thanquol & Boneripper: 450

Chieftan: BSB: Storm Banner, Shield: 122

Warlock Engineer: Forbidden Rod: Level 1 Caster: 100

Warlock Engineer: Ironcurse Icon: 20

Warlock Engineer: Brass Orb: 65

Warlock Engineer: Warplock Pistol, Doomrocket: 53

Assassin: World's Edge Armour, Toughness Poison: 165

39 Clanrats w/shields, standard, musician, attached Poison Wind Morter: 253

40 Clanrats w/shields, standard, musician, attached Poison Wind Morter: 257

20 Nightrunners, Slings 168

14 Jezzails, Sharpshooter: 290

HPA: 235

WLC X 2: 90 X 2 : 180

Plagueclaw Catapult: 100

Theory: Thanquol casts 13th spell a whole lot. 1st level caster brings rod for additional dice. Thanquol also casts skitterleap to teleport cheap man-portable artillary to within shooting distance to kill troopers, warmachines. Storm banner (hopefully) hoses down enemy artillary for a bit. Assassin uses turn of high toughness and World's Edge Armour to survive forward deployment, (hopefully) gets 2nd turn charge. HPA helps hold front, clanrats absorb hits for pricey characters. Lots of artillary bring death to Empire troopers. Nightrunners with slings brings down enemy fast-cav, xbows, guns.

Problems: I don't like NOT having slaves, but want additional artillary. Would stormvermin with shields be better (ie, more points effective) against Emp morters? I don't think so, but am open to counter arguements. Relying too much on engineer's with man- (er, rat-?) portable artillary? Is Thanquol right choice? (ie, would other Grey Seer be better?) Insights anyone?

TIA, Shin

Yellow Commissar
21-09-2010, 20:17
More rats!

More units of rats.

Too many expensive models.

AtmaTheWanderer
21-09-2010, 21:16
Theory: Thanquol casts 13th spell a whole lot.

This is not an effective strategy. The dreaded 13th works only on man-sized infantry models, which will be extremely ineffective against the majority of what has been presented as models run by your opponent. "Casting the 13th spell a lot" is not an effective strategy against ANY list, it's a desperation move against a rock-hard unit that you have no available answer for.

Your opponent's list is crying "run a screaming bell against me". One lucky roll of deafening peels makes his list cry. Statistically, a roll of deafening peels kills 2-3 of his war machines every time you roll it, and it is not an uncommon result when rolling 3 dice (I believe, without my book in front of me, that this effect shows up twice on the list, I want to say from 11-12 and 15-16)

Two rolls of peels would basically eliminate your opponent's entire force. Assuming, of course, empire war machines are tough 7, which I believe they all are.

Yellow Commissar
22-09-2010, 01:02
No Deafening Peals is just 11-12.

The 14-16 Wall of Unholy Sound result references deafening peals in the italics description, and again in reference to its building destroying ability.

Odds of rolling an 11 or 12 are probably decent, and the effect could be good. Still probably won't destroy most of his war machines; just wound them.

What about Sacred Banner of the Horned Rat? I think it is better against a mediocre leadership army prone to panic. Especially if you can take out the general with 13th spell.

BlackPawl
22-09-2010, 12:24
If your opponent take several Warmachines / Mortar, then your two units will - even with stormbanner - go down in turn 2 or 3. And then you have nothing left to fight.
Even if your troops reach the combat line then two detachments will drop your rank bonus, so you will have it very hard to win combat.

And it is not a good idea to take Skaven Warmachines / Weapon Teams / Slings etc. with the stormbanner. The stormbanner will hinder you in your own shooting phase.

I play very often against the empire and I take a Grey Seer, many slaves (many! - but keep them near your general), two units clanrats with WFT (when they near the enemy to shoot the stormbanner is running out before - and they can shoot into a fight with your slaves) and a few things to go against his cavallery (Plague cencer bearer, Poisened wind globadiers, Doomwheel).

Don't take the Brass Orb when the Death Globe can do the same (test against I3 (which is 3 or better) or wound on 4+ without a save). And use the Doom rocket - against horde units it is very good! :-)

You will have a very limited magic phase against him if he take one or more warrior priest of sigmar. Don't rely alone on your magic phase, in most turns he will have the same dispell dices as you have power dices. And as one other one said before the 13th spell is nice, but not alone a battlewinner.

And keep your BSB not naked with a magic banner. Give him an armor (even a magic shield with AS 3+ and the Luckstone will do good work if he reached the frontline, warpstone armor is much better).

Last game I took 6 gutter Runners with poisened slings. The unit was a warmachine hunter unit. Keep the enemy busy.

shinankoku
22-09-2010, 16:14
Wow, thanks everybody! I think I've got some serious retooling to do.

Killboss
23-09-2010, 05:46
Your opponent's list is crying "run a screaming bell against me".

Yeah.... No. Two words: Cannon Snipe.

Echunia
23-09-2010, 06:10
Poisoned slings gutter runners are godlike against war machines. I usually run 10 of them. Must say that they have paid for them selves in almost every game. I just deploy them as scouts in my opponents deployment zone (or put them on infiltrate if you feel they will just die from normal shooting). 20 shots that you can move and shoot and still auto wound on 6s, that's an average of 3 wounds. Keeping in mind that most war machines have about 3 crew this is almost certain to snipe a war machine a turn when they come on. Will probably distract him a whole lot as well!

Svarten
23-09-2010, 19:47
Donīt think that assassins can have armour tough ^^

SimRobert2001
24-09-2010, 01:14
Poisoned slings gutter runners are godlike against war machines. I usually run 10 of them. Must say that they have paid for them selves in almost every game. I just deploy them as scouts in my opponents deployment zone (or put them on infiltrate if you feel they will just die from normal shooting). 20 shots that you can move and shoot and still auto wound on 6s, that's an average of 3 wounds. Keeping in mind that most war machines have about 3 crew this is almost certain to snipe a war machine a turn when they come on. Will probably distract him a whole lot as well!

On that note: you NEED skaven slaves. They're cheap, and serve as cannon fodder for the warmachines. However, you have to field them in rather large units, but these will have the added effect of serving as a big flashing light signaling "hey, attack these with your cannons!" Your cheep skaven slaves die, but your more valuable units will live to close in on the units.

Also, i am going to experiment with using sakven slaves to charge the front, while clanrats and stormvermin storm the rear.

Oh, and don't forget: Nightrunners are the only unit that can have the warp grinder unit, which allows them to pop up in the middle of the battlefield MUCH like the dwarf miners. With 2 units, you have a high chance of suddenly having a unit or two directly behind his warmachines in a flanking position. With skavenslaves in front, he'll have to decide between fighting the nightrunners, or fighting the skavenslaves. IF he has no units guarding his war machines, then you've got a flanking movement set up.

either that, or you can pop up nightrunners with slingshots, and pelt the siege machines.

Killboss
24-09-2010, 07:39
Nightrunners are the only unit that can have the warp grinder unit
Except they can only have ONE Warp Grinder, so you can't have two.
And Gutter Runners can take Warp Grinders, but that only half the units of Gutter Runners (rounding up) can take Warp Grinders. Which directly limits how many you can have to 4 at max.


Poisoned slings gutter runners are godlike against war machines.
This! A couple of units, (say, 2x6 seems to work) will pop a machine or 2, then if they don't get capped themselves, you charge a machine nearby, and with the buttload of attacks, you kill some more :D

In Theory....