PDA

View Full Version : What counts as an attack against Malekith?



Malorian
22-09-2010, 14:53
So he can noly take one wound from any one 'attack', and so things that do multiple wounds only does one, but I'm having a hard time understanding what an 'attack' is and specifically how it relates to magic.

For example, if I hit him with a fire ball could to fireball only do one wound no matter how many hits I roll?

a18no
22-09-2010, 15:08
Magic are pretty clear...

If you do D6 hit against him, you can do 6 wounds providing that you wounds 6 times
If you do D6 wounds against him, you do max 1 wound.

Malorian
22-09-2010, 16:31
Ok, so each hit is an 'attack' rather than the spell being the 'attack'.


I just ahve to be clear as this could lead to a simple spell killing an expensive character, and so I'm sure my opponent will debate it.

T10
22-09-2010, 16:34
In general each individual hit can be counted as an attack.

However, will Malekith be slain by the Purple Sun, or merely suffer a single wound?

-T10

a18no
22-09-2010, 17:37
I don't remember exactly the wording, but I'm 99% sure that his ruling cover "instant kill" attack like killing blow, and in this case he will only receive one wound

sulla
22-09-2010, 19:03
"Malekith can never suffer more than one wound from a single attack, so attacks that do multiple wounds or kill outright only ever inflict a single wound."

So he only suffers a wound from dwellers or purple sun. But you probably wouldn't be casting dwellers at his unit anyway because if he dispells it with his spellshield, your mage will probably die.

Malorian
22-09-2010, 19:06
I don't care about dwellers or the purple sun, I need to know about spells that do multiple hits (like the fireball).

Do you count the spell at the attack (so only 1 wound possible) or each hit as an attack (several wounds possible).

mishari26
22-09-2010, 19:34
I would vote that a fireball (as an example) is a "single attack". so only 1 wound possible.

Malorian
22-09-2010, 19:39
And see that complete is opposite to what T10 said.

I'm just worried that this is a grey area and one that is going to cause a lot of trouble in my game today.

And how about the death magic spells? Are they maxed out at just 1 wound?

sulla
22-09-2010, 19:39
I don't care about dwellers or the purple sun, I need to know about spells that do multiple hits (like the fireball).

Do you count the spell at the attack (so only 1 wound possible) or each hit as an attack (several wounds possible).Personally, I count each hit as a seperate attack. Just like in close combat. I suppose you could argue that the fireball is 'an attack' but then you could argue that a chaos lord attacks you too, or a chaos army for that matter...

Fingol23
22-09-2010, 19:48
I can see the arguement for both sides but would personally lead to a fireball being one attack which inflicts x amount of hits. This would pretty much go for all spells except Bladewind (and any others I have forgotten) which specifies it makes 3D6 attacks.

But then again I suppose you could that as an arguement for the Organ Gun only being one attack as it does a certain number of hits and I would never try to do that so maybe I'm being hypocritical.

Still there is my 2 cents on the matter.

mishari26
22-09-2010, 19:58
it's all semantics. because GW write rules lyrically not like lawyers.

damn them all.

RanaldLoec
22-09-2010, 20:28
It's difficult

Fireball at the basic casting level does d6 strength 4 hits.

Karl franz had 4 attacks and can do 4 hits (if your lucky).

Let's say you roll 4 for fire ball and you wound 4 times vs malekith.

Let's say Karl franz hits 2 times vs malekith with the hammer of sigmar that's auto wounds no saves.

Now fire ball doesn't do multiple wounds.

Hammer of sigmar does d3 wounds per hit malekiths magic items ignores this so just 2 wounds.

But fireball is a magic missle which does multiple hits not wounds.
Is each hit classed as a separate attack?
I honestly can't decide as I can see both sides of the argument and I haven't seen a post which would convince me either interpretation is right or wrong.

eyescrossed
23-09-2010, 00:18
/head explodes

Synnister
23-09-2010, 01:08
I would say that each hit is a separate attack thus able to wound him once. The reason being his rule says 'multiple wounds' which is an actual rule thus easily identifiable as what they're ruling against.

mishari26
23-09-2010, 04:12
I would say that each hit is a separate attack thus able to wound him once. The reason being his rule says 'multiple wounds' which is an actual rule thus easily identifiable as what they're ruling against.

I see where you're going, but unfortunately Malekith's rule is not confined to attacks with "Multiple Wounds" rule. like "..or kill outright"

would you say that it acts only on attacks that have that rule, and also on attacks that "remove the model"?

some can also argue that "..kill outright" means Killing Blow, not necessarily PoS/PSoX, since those don't necessarily "kill". they take you to another dimension :shifty: they just "remove" the model. maybe he goes to a picnic. no one really knows!!

ROCKY
23-09-2010, 06:38
I see where you're going, but unfortunately Malekith's rule is not confined to attacks with "Multiple Wounds" rule. like "..or kill outright"

would you say that it acts only on attacks that have that rule, and also on attacks that "remove the model"?

some can also argue that "..kill outright" means Killing Blow, not necessarily PoS/PSoX, since those don't necessarily "kill". they take you to another dimension :shifty: they just "remove" the model. maybe he goes to a picnic. no one really knows!!

LOL halla wallah habibi! and i used to always tell my opponents to take picnic tests instead of panic tests (enjoyed the laughs) but on a serious note, i doubt anyone is gonna risk those kind of spells with shady rules. however, malorian was asking about stuff life Fireball, flickering fire, etc, and they do not do d6 wounds, rather d6 individual hits which you have to roll to wound. so each is seperate and can wound him seperately. what i usually do is send an asf magic weapon weilding dude and pummel him mercilessly due to him not getting ward saves against magical attacks.

Synnister
23-09-2010, 08:22
Yeah I agree if you have to roll to wound then its a separate attack. Seems reasonable.

Baragash
23-09-2010, 09:55
I agree with T10.

a18no
23-09-2010, 13:16
We don't have to argue if a magic missile is one attack, it's not an attack at all!! Kidding you guys!

Malekith is immune to multi wounds attacks and instant kill attacks. Nothing more than that. A magic missile is not a multi WOUND, it's a multi HIT attack. Anytime the guy is allow ONE save to protect from a multi wound things, he will never receive the mutli wounds:

Let say he got 3 wounds (so full life)

1- He receive a killing blow, if he miss his save, he will normally get 3 wounds, so get only one
2- Canon ball, if he miss saves, he will recevie D6 wounds, so will receive only 1
3- Magic missile: D6 hit, that allow D6 saves, so 1 wound per missed saves
4- The basic spell from death say that each point of difference wil remove 1 wound with not save. So he would received multi wound from one dice throwing, so will receive only one.

The conclusion is simple: no more than 1 wound for each unsaved wound.

Hope it clear everything.

Phaedron2
23-09-2010, 16:36
I'm looking at this the same way as Impact hits. Malekith his being hit by D6 attacks, much in the same way he would be by a character with D6 attacks. Each attack has its own chance to wound and, as they only do one wound, rather then D6, D3, or even just 2. since each hit can only do one wound, he can take multiple from a fireball or the like.

Cheers

sulla
24-09-2010, 04:30
Malekith is immune to multi wounds attacks and instant kill attacks. Nothing more than that. A magic missile is not a multi WOUND, it's a multi HIT attack..Ya might want to rephrase that. Malekith can only ever suffer a single wound from a single attack... by your wording, he could never suffer more than a single wound from that fireball.

Tykinkuula
24-09-2010, 05:46
Indeed. Lets lay it out.

Malekith can take only one wound from any one attack.

Fireball is a multi-hit attack.

Fireball can, therefore, only cause a single wound on malekith, unfortunately.

Mullitron
24-09-2010, 09:21
As much as i would love Malekith to only take one wound from a multi hit attack i dont see that the rules were written with that intention. The 'so' in the rules description seem to suggest that its purely for multi wound attacks and killing blow/instant kills.

major soma
24-09-2010, 09:37
"Ah Malekith how I hate thee with all my Venom"... In all seriousness I tend to avoid Malekith be he mounted on his dragon or any of his other possible mounts. I've fought against him many times and that item makes multiple wound rolls useless to say the least. I agree with a18no's take on the wording for Malekith's gear and it's the same ruling that my gaming group uses [much to the Dark Elf players ire]. Good Luck with your game.

a18no
24-09-2010, 14:01
Indeed. Lets lay it out.

Malekith can take only one wound from any one attack.

Fireball is a multi-hit attack.

Fireball can, therefore, only cause a single wound on malekith, unfortunately.

No, look closely, you'll find 1 or 2 spells (in fire I think, but not 100% sure) that do MULTI-WOUND.

If you want to argue about fireball behing a multi-hit attack, I will response this: a magic is not an "attack"!!!

But don't go in a word to word reading: any "multi-wound" will only do 1 wound. Other than that, his capacity does nothing. Since a magic missile is NOT a multi-wound (don't care what it is), it does nothing special.

In my BRB, the term multi-wound is always in italic. So If I don't see that italic word, Malekith is not protected. It's not a rule to rule them all (funny, where did I hear that before?? ;)), but simple way to see it. Don't try to find loop hole, or exception, it's the beginning of problems!!

Multi-wounds does nothing more than 1 wound to Malekith. Magic missile is a multi-hit so does exactly what it is said: multi hit that EACH will do at best 1 wound.

Or see it like that: if you can "multiply" 1 wound on a normal guy, you won't on Malekith. Canon ball can do 1 wound that could be multiply in D6 wound, so do only 1, killing blow count as 3 wounds on him so do only 1.

Good games, AND HAVE FUN!!