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RanaldLoec
22-09-2010, 17:55
Ok less a rules question more a rules observation

The empire errata states about detachments:

May counter charge an enemy unit charging its parent unit.

The counter charge is made at the end of the charge sub phase.

The random movement special rule states:

Are always moved in the compulsory moves sub-phase.

If the move is found to take the unit into contact with an enemy, then it counts as charging, and this is resolved using the normal rules for charging, using the distance rolled as its charge range.

A fellow empire player tried to argue that he could counter charge vs hell pit abominations, chaos spawn, doom wheels etc etc.

The way the rules read I think you can't counter charge the biggest reason being you counter charge in the sub-charge phase the above units move after this phase in the compulsory moves sub-phase.

Your thoughts am I right or am I horribly wrong!

Ultimate Life Form
22-09-2010, 18:01
How can you countercharge a charge that was never declared?

A random mover does never declare charges, and therefore charge reactions (or countercharges) are not possible.

It is all there in the rules actually. Since the charge happens at a time where you cn't countercharge, no.

theunwantedbeing
22-09-2010, 18:36
Random movement into contact with an enemy is a charge.
Although it doesnt allow a charge reaction.

Counter charge isnt a charge reaction.
Support fire allows you to stand and shoot even when the parent unit isn't allowed to.

Yrrdead
22-09-2010, 19:11
Support fire isn't overwatch. You can't choose to fire at a unit in the remaining moves sub-phases.


Ahh overwatch those were the days.

RanaldLoec
22-09-2010, 20:11
Random movement into contact with an enemy is a charge.
Although it doesnt allow a charge reaction.

Counter charge isnt a charge reaction.
Support fire allows you to stand and shoot even when the parent unit isn't allowed to.

That's not the issue an empire detachment can only counter charge in the charge sub phase after all enemy charges have been resolved.

The compulsory movement phase comes after the charge phase which is the only time you can counter charge.

That's why I think empire detachments can't counter charge compulsory movers as the phase they are allowed to counter charge in has passed.

The same for supporting fire.

theunwantedbeing
22-09-2010, 20:22
True, I was forgetting they'de altered the order of compulsary moves.

Gooner
22-09-2010, 20:26
Random movement is way too good in 8th edition IMO.

This means against a HPA you cant try and dodge it at all, and 3d6 is a decently long range most of the time.

Idealaly I would use a unit of shades with an assasin to take one out from range dancing around it. or bring a death mage in and try to kill it.

but either way he will just charge them and I wont be able to flee.

IMO random movement is not really so random. in fact it is much better then regular movement most of the time.

Reinier
23-09-2010, 13:55
dont forget they pursue still 3D6 instead of the 2D6 like ALL units in Warhammer do.

Hellpit and Doomwheel are now the best prusue units in the game!