PDA

View Full Version : 2000 point High Elf Warhost



Arathalle
22-09-2010, 21:49
Hey there all. I'm in the process of building up my new High Elves collection for 8th edition. This is the army I've chosen to see me through the battlefields of this most recent, and in my opinion, greatest edition of the game, and I couldn't be more pleased with my choice. At the moment I'm the assembling and painting up phase of this endeavor, and things are going very, very well. Now that I've got the general list of what I have at my disposal(or will very soon...I don't play with unfinished models), the time has come to start putting together an army list. I've decided to start at the 2000 points level, seeing as that's the most common game size at the local club in which I play.

First and foremost, here are the models and units I'm working on:

1 Prince
1 Archmage
1 Mage
1 Noble(BSB)
1 Caradryan, Captain of the Phoenix Guard

20 Lothern Sea Guard
20 Lothern Sea Guard
24 Sword Masters of Hoeth
5 Ellyrian Reavers
2 Lion Chariots of Chrace
20 Phoenix Guard
10 Dragon Princes of Caledor

1 Repeater Bolt Thrower
2 to 3 Great Eagles(Edit: Most likely just the 2 of them for now)

In my opinion, this collection gives me a solid place to start from, and should easily allow me to make some effective and fun army lists. Of course, as time goes on and games are played, the collection will grow. One of the first units I plan on adding when all is said and done will be a sizable unit of White Lions of Chrace.

So, with this in mind, I've begun putting together the essentials of my first 2000 point Warhost. First things first, an army needs at least 25% of its' points value spent on Core units. Well, I've got just the thing. My favorite of the High Elf Core choices are the Lothern Sea Guard. My first step was to fill this requirement, and this is what I've come up with:
(Characterful names and such for units and characters will be forthcoming...yeah, I'm one of "those" people;))

20 Lothern Sea Guard-
Sea Master
Musician
Standard Bearer
Shields
Banner of Eternal Flame

20 Lothern Sea Guard-
Sea Master
Musician
Standard Bearer
Shields

At a combined points total of 580 points, these units quite handily fill out my Core requirements at the 2000 points level. Also, I'm a huge fan of the Sea Guard, so I'm quite pleased and content with these two solid blocks. Also, the Banner of Eternal Flame equipped on one of the units is an awesome item for the points, and I think it'll come in quite handy. These two units are the mainstay of the Warhost at this point, and I think their versatility both in combat and shooting is just awesome.

Now, the next requirement of any army is that it needs a General to lead it. I've been toying around with the idea of using a Prince, instead of the Archmage as my Lord choice for a couple reasons. One of them being purely for background reasons, that being that I believe my army will hail from the realm of Cothique, and be lead by a Prince of that land. The other reason being his potentially excellent combat capabilities and Ld10. Both great things. On the other hand, and Archmage is, well, an Archmage. High Elf spell casting is awesome, plain and simple, and I'd almost be a fool not to include such a powerful wizard. Thoughts on this?

Of course, if I did choose an Archmage over the Prince, I could use a more survivable Noble as my General. Again, this is an area I may need some advice on.

Speaking of Nobles, to me, having a Battle Standard Bearer is utterly necessary, and there is sure to be one in this list, no matter what. I've yet to figure out exactly how I plan on armouring and equipping said BSB, and any suggestions in this regard would be most welcome as well.

The next additions to this army, for me, have got to be two or three Great Eagles. Some of the war machines of the lesser races are ignoble and cowardly, yet have the ability to devastate my proud blocks of warriors. The Great Eagles, in my opinion are an excellent answer to this problem, flying around and engaging war machine crews, tying them up in combat and hopefully ripping them to shreds with huge talons. Hence, two of my Rare entires will likely look like this:

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

(?Great Eagle?)

These come in very inexpensively points-wise, and are worth their weight in gold, if you ask me.

Speaking of valuable units, I'm planning on fitting at least one Lion Chariot of Chrace into this 2000 point Warhost, preferably two of them. So, here's another entry:

Lion Chariot of Chrace

Lion Chariot of Chrace

I'm really hoping I can manage to fit these twin death-dealers into the list.

Lastly, for now, every High Elf army needs at least one, preferably more of their excellent elite warrior castes. In my case, this would be the Sword Masters of Hoeth and/or the Phoenix Guard. I have a huge desire to field a large unit of Phoenix Guard, 20-strong:

20 Phoenix Guard-
Keeper of the Flame
Musician
Standard Bearer

And, it at all possible, a smaller unit of Sword Masters, something along the lines of this:

12 Sword Masters of Hoeth-
Bladelord
Musician
Standard Bearer

Thus far, I've listed some units here, and I think they form a solid grouping of regiments for a 2000 point army. Two units of Lothern Sea Guard, a unit of Phoenix Guard, a couple of Lion Chariots, two or three Great Eagles, and a smaller, hitty unit of Sword Masters of Hoeth. These units could potentially form the basis of decent army. If you're curious, the units, as listed above come to a current total of 1500 points on the button.

Now, this doesn't leave an incredible amount of points leftover for characters, magic items and such, but I DO think it ends up being a solid core force.

Anyway, here is my current thinking on putting together my Warhost, and the units as listed here add up to 1500 points. Please, by all means, share your thoughts on what I've got here, and perhaps any potential changes you think I might benefit from. Also, your thoughts on what Lords/Heroes would be suit this army would be most invaluable. Thanks for reading, and I look forward to seeing what you think of this.

Arathalle

Wyrmnax
22-09-2010, 22:25
I will put a bit of pratical view here, so i will not extend myself:

- Champions.
The only units that need champions are the ones that will have your special characters. Generally, champions are overly expensive for the extra attack they bring - you only want them when they can protect a more important character from a undesirable challenge.

- Standard Bearers
You want those on units that will try to win combat by combat resolution. IE: Units that dont hit that hard. Seaguard are a great example of where you want them.

-Seaguards
Personally dont like the Banner of Eternal flame. Just personal opinion - too much risk with so much immune to fire things around.

- Chariots really work well in pairs. You can work them togheter very well, to the point that your target will need to present a flank to one of them. Id say take two if you are bringing them to the field.

-Phoenix guards make a very solid block, but not one that kills much. I believe they are better used in 5~6 files, and probably 3 ranks because of that. They will hold the enemy, , have enough ranks to stay there for a while and you are not spending too much on extra ranks that have few uses. They win few combats by themselves. I would downsize them a bit

-Swordsmasters - They certainly dont need a standard bearer. Most likely not gonna need the champion too. They win combats by kiling a lot of enemies.

About your Prince or Archamge, well... ugh. It is a tough choice. A single lv2 mage will not make a decent enough magic phase, so he will pretty much be relegated to dispel scroll duty. So, if you plan to have a magical phase, you will either need a lv4 and 2~3 lv 2s. You will probably need to play around a bit to find out how much magic you are confortable with.

Your army is missing a bit of damage. The only unit that can really cause damage are the swordsmasters, and they are not enough for a 2k army. The seaguards are decent, but unless your spells buff them a lot they will not be killing much. The chariots admitedly can do some damage, but it depends a lot on what you are fighting against. And you must never let them be bogged them - they need to charge a enemy, break it and keep going. Harder done than said.

Also, you need a way to deal with the big and the nasty. Anything that has T5 or T6 will give you a lot of trouble if your oponent ties up your swordsmasters somewhere else.

Arathalle
22-09-2010, 22:49
Thanks so much for the reply, Wyrmnax, I truly appreciate it. So, with all the issues you've found with the current set ups I have going on, as mentioned in my first post, how would you go about strengthening it up, preferably by using the models and units I have posted as available to me in the original post of this thread?

I chose the Banner of Eternal Flame on one of the Sea Guard units, because I thought giving them Flaming attacks, both in close combat and in their missile fire would make them excellent at taking out, or assisting in taking out the large amount of creatures and units that have the Regeneration special ability that are out there now. Also, I'm making the assumption(that may very well be wrong and misguided) that these Flaming attacks granted by the Banner would also count as magical, which as also handy.

So, in essence you're saying I need some more heavy hitters, which, by the way is something I would have a hard time arguing.

I do like your suggestion on lowering the ranks on some of the more elite Special units, like the Phoenix Guard and such, as this would also save me some points which could be easier spent on additional stuff, including magic items for the characters, and magical standards for some of my units.

Anyway, I'd very much like to see what you'd suggest in making this army a little more heavy hitting. If you had the time and inclination, I'd love to see what kind of list you'd come up with using the models and units I've posted above.

Thanks again, Wyrmnax

Arathalle

Arathalle
23-09-2010, 01:31
Indeed, the more I dig into your analysis, Wyrmnax, the more I agree with so much of what you have to say. First and foremost, taking the Phoenix Guard down to 15, rather than 20-strong, will save me a goodly amount of points, which I desperately need. Very nice.

Also, I've been thinking of the Archmage. Honestly, I've got to do a points cost analysis to see whether one Level 4 or two Level 2's is, once again, more cost effective. We shall see.

So, there's a lot I could be working on with this list, and I do believe I'll be making quite a few tweaks and changes here very soon. Thanks so much for the great advice, my friend. I'll see what I can do about posting an updated list here as soon as possible.

Arathalle

lacurra
23-09-2010, 01:53
I usually only use PG's for 2 things. one is protecting archmages because if the mage goes nuclear, the PG's can survive. the second is as a speed bump. while the PG's are not a very killy unit, they are very hard to kill because of their ward saves. i tend to use them in the back to hold units in place until a killy unit can get back to wipe them out. that said, i tend to run them in blocks of 10 or 12 but that's just me.

as to the mages. i like to have an archmage if the points allow me. not specifically for my magic phase but rather for stopping theirs. an archmage has a +5 to dispel their spells which makes it very easy to dominate both magic phases and keep my army safe.

aside from that, i tend to use a lot of champions in my units but i can't argue with Wyrm to much, he has some great points. i just love that extra attack. if it doesn't add an attack though, i never take the champion and in fairness if i need to make up points somewhere, champions are the first thing i start cutting.

Marwynn
23-09-2010, 02:16
With the Supporting Attacks rule, PG actually became fair at killing things. They get re-rolls with just about everything and fight in two ranks and Cause Fear to boot.

Very rock solid. Plug in a Noble with the Crown of Command (or Korhil) into that unit and suddenly they're Stubborn.

LSG is really not cost-efficient in largish blocks. Give them a try, but you can have them count as Spearmen later on. Champions aren't necessary either for them.

Battle Standard Bearers are necessary for almost every army. The classic BSB setup for a Noble is the Guardian Phoenix and Armour of Caledor: 2+ AS, Fire immunity, and a 5+ Ward Save. Give him a Great Weapon and go-to-town.

Alternative is the Radiant Gem of Hoeth BSB if you wanna go light on characters.

Great Eagles are great.

Arathalle
23-09-2010, 02:45
Thanks Marwynn, those are, again, some very excellent points indeed. I agree with your point on the Phoenix Guard. I'm thinking with the supporting attacks, they'll actually be quite good, and I mean...a 4+ Ward Save never hurt anybody...well, except for the enemy, which is always good. I really quite like the Crown of Command idea on a Noble accompanying the Phoenix Guard. With that in hand, I can see them being one of those nits the enemy will just hate and fear with equal measure, and this is never a bad thing.

I'm a little disappointed to see that you think Sea Guard aren't that cost-effective in large blocks, like I plan on running them, but I suppose we'll see how they work out for me. When it comes to Sea Guard I've found very mixed opinions regarding them...either people love them or hate them. I guess in the ed it'll be up to me to see how they work out. Again, I'm a huge fan of versatility, and despite the fact that I know versatility isn't always the greatest thing to have in Warhammer, I feel they fit perfectly within the context and feel of my army, and I guess only time will tell if they work for me or not. I'm going to give it my best with them anyway.

Again, I fully agree with you on the Battle Standard necessity in pretty much any army, and like I said, I doubt that I'd ever hit the battlefield without them. Thanks for the rather awesome build for my BSB as well. The Armour of Caledor and the Guardian Phoenix combined with a great weapon should make for a completely kick ass Noble Battle Standard. Place him in a unit of Sea Guard or something, and all of a sudden they become a much less welcome prospect for the enemy to charge into. Thanks, Speed of Asuryan;)

More Great Eagle love, excellent! Like I thought, it seems to me that the days of Repeater Bolt Thrower spam is nearly come to an end, and I couldn't be more pleased. Of course, I'm sure the Eagle Claw still has its' place here and there, and I even have one of them right now, almost ready for action. But when it comes down to it, a flock of Great Eagles is where it's at for taking on the ignoble and crude war machines of the lesser races, among other things. Love the Great Eagles. Two or three of them will typically always find their way into my lists.

Thanks for the reply, Marwynn.

Arathalle

Arathalle
23-09-2010, 02:51
lacurra: I also tend to agree with you. For some reason, a regiment of troops just doesn't seem quite right without a champion of some sort to lead it. I know it's not always the most cost efficient way to do things, but for me, the unit wouldn't typically feel complete without a Sentinel, Sea Master, Drakemaster, etc. to lead them into battle. I can definitely see where everyone who's against them for the most part is coming from, in terms of points saving and whatnot, but I'm not sure I could bring myself to exclude them outright. Glad you feel the same way!

Arathalle

Arathalle
23-09-2010, 03:01
So, we have a winner in terms of a Noble Battle Standard Bearer that I really like. I don't mean to double post in some weird and mildly sad attempt to raise my post count(of which, for the record I could care less about), but here he is:
(Again, characterful names and such coming soon)

Noble-
Battle Standard Bearer
Great Weapon
Armour of Caledor
Guardian Phoenix

This guy weighs in at a mere 168 points, which I think is pretty reasonable, considering the awesome benefits of a Battle Standard alone, combined with an excellent Armour Save(not to mention the additional effects of Dragon Armour to boot), and a decent 5+ Ward Save. If that wasn't enough, he has Speed of Asuryan, allowing him to 'Always Strike First' with his Great Weapon with 3 Attacks at S6 with WS6...and I7 at that. Very, very nice.

So, that leaves one more of the most important, if not THE most vital character in my potential list needing some magic equipment, this being the Archmage. I`ve seen some pretty nasty High Elf Archmage builds out there, many of which tend to just go for the Book of Hoeth. Now, there`s no denying the effectiveness of this tome, but I`m not sure I want to go there. I`d much rather give him a few different kinds of magic items instead, just for personal taste. I`m pouring over the High Elves magic items and the common magic items in the main rulebook right now, trying to come up with something that suits me. Any help in this regard would be most appreciated as well.


Edit: So, as a start on equipping my Archmage, which is obviously a very large and important part of my army list, I've currently come up with the following. As it's 1:30am here, and I'm exhausted and have college classes tomorrow morning, this is a rather quick build. I haven't even taken into consideration any of the common magic items in the 8th edition rulebook, which I definitely will be doing very soon(when I'm not half asleep...)

Archmage-
Level 4
Talisman of Saphery
Folariath's Robe
Staff of Solidity(Edit: Or, perhaps, the Silver Wand, or even the Jewel of the Dusk)
Also, from reading through the Lores and giving it some thought, I can picture my Archmage using the Lore of Life...thoughts? As lacurra mentioned below, if I take the Lore of Life, the Throne of Vines should do well enough to guard my Archmage against Miscasts, so perhaps the Silver Wand is a much better, and less expensive points-wise, choice. I'm actually thinking this might very well be the way to go. In a 2000 point High Elf army, every point counts...

This Archmage comes in at 360 points, and thanks to his item combination makes him incredibly survivable, both to enemy attacks and also with the ability to ignore his first Miscast. Love him. However, maybe something else will come up after having a closer look at what's avaiable to him from the common magic item list in the rulebook. Either way, I have a feeling he's going to be very much a key player in the grand scheme of things. I've yet to decide what Lore would best suit him, whether it be the proud and noblest of all magecraft, High Magic, ore one of the Lesser Lores...we shall see. As always, suggestions, thoughts, and ideas are most welcome and invaluable.

Arathalle

lacurra
23-09-2010, 12:20
When it comes to PG's, I'm not saying they are terrible but look at it this way, you have a block of 10+ of them, they get 11 attacks with the re roll and yes most of them will probably hit. The problem comes in their strength, halbreds make them a (and my book is in the car because i have a game this afternoon so this is from memory and could be off) a str 4. I don't know about you but it seems everything i fight is a toughness 4 or higher so generally i'm woundiniig on 4+. Now with 11 attacks, usually 8 hit and i'll be lucky to kill 4. To me that isn't very killy. Now they are an incredibly resiliant unit with their 4+ ward so i like them as an anvil unit, but my killing is leflt to WL's or SM's. The same block of SM's will get 16 attacks at str 5 while the WL's will get the same 11 attacks but at str 6. You either have 30% more attacks wounding on 3+ or the same number on 2+, either one will result in far more kills. That's my take on PG's.

As to the sea guard, I tend to play a defensive game, I like to let them come across the board to get to me so I love the fact that I get to thin them down quite a bit with bows on their way across. the idea is that if i can get them to come to me and all my troops, instead of charging out after them, i can flank and such with my army rather than strand a unit out all alone to get chewed up. doesn't always work but I've had pretty good success playing that way so the sea guard work great in that role.

watch out with your archmage, i've used that build before and it works pretty well but keep in mind that any cannon with a rune is a magical attack and can still take him out as well as any magic bows or magical creatures that attack you (stupid wood elf tree thingies) just a heads up.

Arathalle
23-09-2010, 17:50
Thanks for that, lacurra. I agree, when it comes to the Archmage, there's no way to make him literally invincible:) However, with the Talisman of Saphery and Folariath's Robe, hes getting there. Sure, there's definitely still ways to get him killed, but all in all it's a pretty darn good defense. It does leave him lacking in spell-enhancing magic items, however. I find, seeing as the Miscasts are so nasty, that the Staff of Solidity is a pretty necessary item for him as well. Getting an Irresistible Force off and then NOT having to take a Miscast from it is pretty awesome, and should keep him going for a while. I like the build quite a bit, but you're quite right, he still has his potential problems. Spells that can pick him out of a unit and cannonballs might end up being his bane, but that's true of most characters. I'll likely end up sticking him in a unit of Sea Guard for added protection.

Phoenix Guard, to me, are a solid anvil. Sure, they can rack up some kills, but more or less they're there to form a solid and very hard to move wall of Ithilmar and halberds. That 4+ Ward Save is very nice, and the fact that they cause Fear is nothing to sniff at either. I love my Phoenix Guard. Good points on them, though. I find if you're looking for a unit to kill things, go with Sword Masters or White Lions.

I'm glad you seem to like the Sea Guard as much as I do. In fact, they're really the only Core unit I can see myself using in my armies. Love them.

Arathalle

thesheriff
23-09-2010, 21:00
I would in your situation do;

Archmage with forlaiths robes, talismain of saphpery, silver wand. (Life) = 340
Mage, lv.2 seerstaff (shadow - Okrams Mind Razor, Pit of Shades) = 175
BSB, Armour of Caelador, Guardian Phoiniex, GW = 159
Caraydran = 190
20 Seaguard w. command = 280
20 Seaguard w. command, Banner of fire = 295
20 Phoiniex guard w. command, Banner of Sorcerey = 380
14 Swordsmasters w. command = 230
2 Lion chariots = 280
Bolt thrower = 100
2 Eagles = 100

Its got some really good block units, a nit of a PG vibe, and some hard hitting units like SM and chariots.

thesheriff

Arathalle
23-09-2010, 23:17
That's an awesome looking list, thesheriff, I love it. I'm really stoked that I seem to have chosen a good group of models and units to start my High Elf collection with. So far I'm loving the High Elf way of war. The list you have there, though, I believe is over 2000 points...of course, I could be wrong, and if I am, that's great! I'll work out the points and see how it goes though. Either way, I could definitely just pare it down a bit to make it 2000 points if need be.

One thing I've noticed is that you've equipped the Archmage with the Silver Wand rather than the Staff of Solidity. This is something I've been thinking about as well. I do love the Staff, though, as being immune to my first Miscast could be game saving every now and then. Also, the classic Jewel of the Dusk is another choice I could make. I'm very pleased to see you using Folariath's Robe and the Talisman of Saphery on the Archmage too, and that's most likely two items I'll be using on mine for sure.

The Noble Battle Standard Bearer is armed exactly as I plan on army mine, and I think it's a great build. 2+ Armour Save, a 5+ Ward Save, and immune to flaming attacks...gotta love it.

I was curious about adding a second spell caster to any of my lists, and I do indeed like the Mage build you've provided in the list. The Lore of Shadows is great, and those two spells are just nasty. I forgot to mention, the Lore of Life on the Archmage is perfect too, probably what I'll be using. The Lore of Life is just awesome. Although, High Magic is something I really enjoy, but I can see myself using the 8 Lores more than anything.

Caradryan is one of my favorite special characters, both in terms of his rules, and also his model. He fits quite well within the overall confines of my army, and I can see myself using him quite often....despite the fact that I rarely use special characters.

The rest of the list is looking just perfect, probably exactly as I'll end up fielding it.

Now, one thing I've been curious about and need some help with is in regards to my Prince. Both in terms of modelling him, and how to use him in-game. The thing is that I need to model him in such a way that he can be used as a Noble OR a Prince(when the occassion arises). More often than not he'll be fielded as a Noble, but I'd like the option of using him as a Prince sometimes. What sort of equipment and magic items would best suit such a character?

Arathalle

lacurra
24-09-2010, 01:57
honestly if you are taking the lore of life, the throne of vines spell gives you a 2+ save against miscasts so it really isn't a big deal. they happen and they stink when they do but it is a nessicary risk sometimes. if you have a level 4 archmage with the silver wand, you will probably have the throne of vines spell so you should be golden.

I love to take Caradryan, best challenge character ever. oh you killed me, well you take d6 wounds now. awesome way to take out their general.

Arathalle
24-09-2010, 02:57
Great point, lacurra...yet another reason to take Lore of Life on my Archmage. So, perhaps the Silver Wand it is...not to mention it would end up saving me 10 points, which could most certainly spent elsewhere.

So, to my other point: How to build, both physically and in-game a Noble that could easily double as a Prince?

Arathalle

lacurra
24-09-2010, 06:32
well as far as modeling goes, GW sells a kit. an overpriced kit but a kit non the less. for me, i just used some left over bits that i had from my dragon and some other stuff to build myself a noble/prince. also someone gave me a prince on a horse so i guess i have a couple of them now. really just build somone with a pretty flashy weapon and head piece and you should be golden.

i tend to equip my princes with a solid armor, enchanted shield, ward save of some sort, and a sword that will either give them more attacks (leaping gold) or one that will make wounding really easy. the heavy armor and enchanted shield give him a 3+ armor save without mounting him, on a barded horse it becomes 1+ which can definitely hold his own pretty well in a fight. honestly though i don't use them to often, usually only as my BSB so others will probably have much better advice for you in this area than i do.

thesheriff
24-09-2010, 09:07
thats about 2,500 over. Drop caraydran, and add anouther eagle, and that will be 2,4k, (which is what i play at my GW). But, some not too serious drops will ake it 2k. a chariot, 4 of the seaguard, bolt thrower, 2 eagles (192pts)

Arathalle
25-09-2010, 01:32
Thanks for that, lacurra and thesheriff.

In terms of building a Price, I think I'm with you in that I won't be using him all that often, but it would be nice to build a rather nasty High Elf Prince for when the mood strikes. The High Elf magic items combined with the common magic items in the rulebook should allow me to make a fairly solid Prince build. The first things you mentioned were a solid suit of armour and a Ward save of some kind, and I can see these as being among the most important aspects of such a build. Any advice on magical suits of armour that would fit this bill? The Armour of Destiny springs to mind, first and foremost, and takes care of both of those defensive capabilities. It would give him heavy armour(a 5+ armour save), and a very nice 4+ Ward Save. Nice. Of course, with the Armour of Destiny, adding a shield is almost mandatory, upping his basic armour save to 4+. The Armour of Destiny, with its' inherit Ward save also saves some points to give him a nasty magical weapon of some kind. This said, I'm not entirely sure about the Armour of Destiny, so any other suggestions you may have would be great to see. The Armour of Caledor is out of the question, as that little beauty is already going to my Battle Standard Bearer, who's build I really dig.

With I8 and Speed of Asuryan he's typically always going to be striking before most things that would potentially worry him, so he's going to want a weapon capable to doing some damage, and hopefully taking out his enemy before it gets a chance to..."test" his Toughness of 3. I think I'd prefer to give him a weapon that raises his Strength or something like that, considering he only has a base S4.

Any thoughts on some nasty High Elf Prince(on foot) builds would be invaluable to me. Hey, even some High Elf Noble on foot builds would be great too, considering my model for this fellow will be doubling as either, whatever the case calls for. So, fire away.

Edit: I forgot to mention that my collection has grown, somewhat. I've decided to add an additional 4 Sword Masters of Hoeth to the group, as it occurred to me that I should be fielding them in ranks of 6. In 2000 points, I'll likely be fielding either a unit of 12 or 18, 6 wide.

Finally, magic banners and inexpensive magic items for certain unit champions is another thing I'm interested in seeing your thoughts on. All of your responses and suggestions have been so great thus far, that I thought I'd push just a little more.

Arathalle

Arathalle
25-09-2010, 06:26
Alright, after having had a good solid read through all of the Lores available to my spell casters(which, being High Elves is quite a few!), I've decided that my Archmage will indeed most likely be using the Lore of Life. I find it very fitting for a High Elf wizard, not to mention the Lore itself is just out of this world awesome. Thanks for the advice, everyone, and this is what he'll end up looking like:

High Elf Archmage(Lore of Life)-
Level 4
Talisman of Saphery
Silver Wand
Folariath's Robe

Love him. Very, very much. The Robe means he won't be being hurt by the mundane rank and file of the crude enemy, and the Talisman of Saphery means even the lesser magic items of the foes of Ulthuan will be useless against him. Of course, not even a mighty Asur Archmage is invincible, and he'll still be susceptible to certain enemy spells that can pick him out, or even the odd Rune cannonball of the bearded ones....but it's really about as good as it gets. He'll most likely be in the safety of a large block of Lothern Sea Guard as well, which only adds to his protection. The Silver Wand means he'll have access to nearly all of the spells of the Lore of Life as well....Indeed, I'm very fond of my Archmage.

The other character I'm dead set on, as I've previously mentioned is my Battle Standard Bearer. Here he is:

High Elf Noble-
Battle Standard Bearer
Great Weapon
Armour of Caledor
Guardian Phoenix

I've mentioned his abilities and just why he's so cool in an earlier post, I believe, so no point repeating it here. Needless to say, I think he's awesome too, to say the least.

Also among my list of current characters is Caradryan, Captain of the Phoenix Guard. I love the model, and I love his in-game abilities. I think he's just great. Being a special character, I'm not sure just how often I'll use him, butr the urge and temptation is definitely there. For the points, I think he's just rad. Again, sweet model too, and he'll look amazing next to my unit of the new plastic Phoenix Guard.

This leaves the two other characters I've got being worked on. One of them is a secondary Mage. I'm debating whether or not to have him use the Lore of Shadows or High Magic. Thoughts? Also, any thoughts on how to equip him would be most welcome as well.

The final character is my Prince/Noble. I'm going to build him in such a way that he can be used as either, hopefully. This guy is where I might need the most help, and I'd like him to be made to fill a role or job the rest of the army(potential models to be seen in above posts) doesn't quite do. He could be something simple like a unit buff, adding to their overall killing power, or something else. It's really up in the air at this point. Thoughts on this?

Arathalle

clanfield
25-09-2010, 07:40
i regularly use a noble plain with heavy armour great sword cheap nasty and fun if i have the points he has the taliman of saphery

and my second mage is lvl2 ruby ring of ruin and staff of solidity take high magic gives him 4 spells (with the ring ) and he makes a nice back up mage

Arathalle
25-09-2010, 07:48
I've had an incredibly difficult time putting together a 2000 point High Elf Warhost that I really quite liked, and also had everything I would have liked to fit in it. This is the incomplete form of what I'm currently playing around with, using the collection of models I'm starting off with as listed above. Obviously it needs some working about and additions, but as it stands, please let me know what you think. More detailed questions and thoughts will follow...

High Elf Archmage(Lore of Life)-
Level 4
Talisman of Saphery
Silver Wand
Folariath's Robe

High Elf Noble-
Battle Standard Bearer
Great Weapon
Armour of Caledor
Guardian Phoenix

19 Lothern Sea Guard-
Sea Master
Musician
Standard Bearer
Shields

19 Lothern Sea Guard-
Sea Master
Musician
Standard Bearer
Shields

12 Sword Masters of Hoeth-
Bladelord
Musician
Standard Bearer

19 Phoenix Guard-
Keeper of the Flame
Musician
Standard Bearer

Lion Chariot of Chrace

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

Total as it stands is 1827 points. So far, I'm liking the list. Of course if you happen to think differently, by all means, let me know. For starters, the Archmage accompanies ones of the Sea Guard units, and the Battle Standard accompanies the other. The two units and their accompanying characters are, I believe, quite sturdy, and should form a fairly decent mainstay of the army.

The relatively small unit of Sword Masters and the Lion Chariot are more or less the heavy hitters of the force, working alongside the Sea Guard blocks to bring the hurt to the enemy where needed. Both of these units are suited to such a task, and should do just fine. If I had the points(and I truly wish I did!), I'd add a second Lion Chariot AND bulk up the Sword Masters to either 18 or 24 strong. The Great Eagles are, for lack of a better term, "troubleshooters". I picture the pair of them on war machine attacking, tying up, and/or killing units, for the most part. Basically they're fact enough to be where I need them to be, when I need them to be, and I think they'll come in very handy for a mere 100 points. Between the two of them they have 4 WS5 S4 attacks, so they should be able to give most war machine crews(and lone wizards, for that matter!) some trouble.

Lastly we have one of my favorite units; the Phoenix Guard. Now, you'll notice the unit is only 19 strong. This missing spot in the unit is reserved for a character type that I've yet to figure out, and was hoping for your help on. I'm thinking the Phoenix Guard unit could use a martial Hero in order to boost its' killing power, at the very least. Caradryan would fit this role quite nicely, but I think at this low points level I'm looking for a slightly less expensive character for this role, which would allow me to but a magic banner here and there, or even a cheap magical trinket for a unit champion here or there. As I was going on about in my above posts, this would be the perfect spot for that Noble/Prince model build I've been asking about, and I think the correctly equipped character here would really make the Phoenix Guard into something to be even more feared. In short, help!

So, anything you have to say or think about the list as it stands, please do share. There's lots to work on here, I think, so fire away. In the end, I do think it's a good start for a 2000 point High Elves list, it just needs some attention. The only other thing bothering me is the lack of a second Mage, but with the Level 4 rockin' in there, I don't think I'm too overly worried about it. What concerns me more is making a decent character to accompany the Phoenix Guard right now, that will leave me a few points leftover to play with some magic trinkets and banners for the rest of the army....Any help or thoughts you can give would be most helpful!

Arathalle

Edit: It just occurred to me that with the points I still have, I could add another Lion Chariot AND another Phoenix Guard to fill the unit out to 20 strong...AND give one of the unit champions or units a cheap magic item/banner....definitely tempting.

Lion Chariot of Chrace

+1 Phoenix Guard

Bringing the Total to 1982 points....Maybe give the Keeper of the Flame the Amulet of Light, and viola, the total would be 1997 points. There would be the list. The other option would be to give one of the Sea Guard units the Banner of Eternal Flame, and either the Bladelord or the Keeper of the Flame the Ironcurse Icon, or even the Sword Masters the Gleaming Pennant. Thoughts on the most valuable of these?

Also, even though the additional Lion Chariot option seems like the better choice, I'd still be interested to see what sort of Noble I could use to make my Phoenix Guard more killy. I'm not the type to always go with what's simply "better". I'm a huge fan of characters, and fielding only two of them in a 2000 point army seems a little wrong to my sensibilities;)

Arathalle
25-09-2010, 07:51
clanfield: Thanks very much for the reply! Now, your cheap, great weapon-wielding Noble...is there anything else besides the Talisman of Saphery you'd recommend using on him? I only ask because I'm using said Talisman already in my list, on my Archmage.

Also, thanks for the advice on the secondary Mage. I was a really wanting to use High Magic on one of my Mages, and I think you've given me a good enough excuse to. As amazing as the rulebook 8 Lores are, I still think High Magic is pretty awesome.

Arathalle

clanfield
25-09-2010, 14:47
i use the amulet of fire or temkadors gauntlets as well that works nicely
though amulet is not so good in 8th or maybe the gem of hoeth giving him a death spell so he can generate a few power dice and drain enermy dispels

Arathalle
25-09-2010, 19:53
This is a Noble build I've come up with, in case I decide to add him to the Phoenix Guard unit as a bit of a buff to them. Let me know what you think.

High Elf Noble-
Dragon Armour
Halberd
Charmed Shield
Radiant Gem of Hoeth

Now, this guy has a 4+ Armour save against shooting, a 5+ Armour save in close combat, and either way can discount the first hit against him on a roll of 2+. Not bad. The real joy is the fact that he's a Level 1 Wizard. I'm not entirely sure which Lore I should give him, though. I'm thinking either Beasts or Shadow...thoughts? I figure that either way he'll be a nice killy addition to the Phoenix Guard unit, boosting their ability to actually do damage, and be able to cast of spell of some sort, preferably an augment of some kind. Let me know what you think of build, and perhaps if you'd do it differently.

Arathalle

Edit: I guess I should mention, not that it has much to do with tactics or army lists, but I'm planning on making my warhost hail mostly from Cothique, or at least the army is under the command of a Prince or Archmage that hails from Cothique. I chose this realm because I plan on using teal and pale green as accent colours, along with the white robes of course, and also lots of "sea gold"...it just feels like a coastal realm look to me. Also, Cothique is a somewhat lesser used realm, and is located relatively close to many of the realms some of my troops come from. The Sea Guard would have a fleet off the coast of Cothique, in one of the many bays...and anyway, it all just seems to work out in terms of look and feel. Just thought I'd share a little background, to break up the talk of army builds and tactics for a moment.

Arathalle
25-09-2010, 23:36
So, for the moment, I've got this 2000 point list going on. I'm not sure I'm quite there yet, if you know what I mean, but please, let me know what you think.

Archmage(Lore of Life)-
Level 4
Talisman of Saphery
Silver Wand
Folariath's Robe

Noble-
Battle Standard Bearer
Great Weapon
Armour of Caledor
Guardian Phoenix

19 Lothern Sea Guard-
Sea Master
Musician
Standard Bearer
Banner of Eternal Flame
Shields

19 Lothern Sea Guard-
Sea Master
Musician
Standard Bearer
Shields

20 Phoenix Guard-
Keeper of the Flame
Musician
Standard Bearer

12 Sword Masters of Hoeth-
Bladelord
Musician
Standard Bearer
Gleaming Pennant

Lion Chariot of Chrace

Lion Chariot of Chrace

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

TOTAL 1997 points.

And there we have it. Honestly I like the list, and I would definitely go to battle with it, but I can't help but feel it's missing a little something. For instance, for better or worse, I'm a fan of characters. I find they add, well, character to any army, and I really enjoy kitting them out and customizing them. This army features only two characters in the form of one Lord and one Hero, and for some reason that leaves me feeling a little barren. That said, the combined points value of those two characters does happen to be 518 points, which is a large portion of the army...but oh well. I'd also like to be able to kit out my Bladelord and Keeper of the Flame with some nifty items as well, to make them and their respective units all the more nasty.

Regardless, let me know what you think of the list as it stands. All the while I'll be going to work attempting to write up another army list, using the models I'll have at hand, and see what happens.

Arathalle

Arathalle
26-09-2010, 00:07
Alright, let's refer to the army list in the above post as "Warhost I", in terms of discussing it, and any possible changes, thoughts, and suggestions you might have regarding it. The following army list can be referred to as "Warhost II" when discussing it...just to keep things clear. This list is something I've just cooked up, and it isn't quite complete yet. Some of the characters have yet to be equipped with magic items and so on. This is one factor I'd very much like your help regarding. I'm having a slightly difficult time coming up with a High Elf Prince build I think will be really effective, so by all means, have a go. The Mages are in the same boat, although choosing items for them will be slightly less difficult.

High Elf Prince-
?

Noble-
Battle Standard Bearer
Great Weapon
Armour of Caledor
Guardian Phoenix

Mage(Lore of Life)-
Level 2

Mage(Lore of Shadows)-
Level 2

19 Lothern Sea Guard-
Sea Master
Musician
Standard Bearer
Shields

18 Lothern Sea Guard-
Sea Master
Musician
Standard Bearer
Shields

17 Sword Masters of Hoeth-
Bladelord
Musician
Standard Bearer

6 Dragon Princes of Caledor-
Drakemaster
Musician
Standard Bearer

Lion Chariot of Chrace

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

Current TOTAL 1874 points

Now, there's lots of room to play with this list, in terms of equipping characters and units and such. Let me know what you think.

Arathalle

Tarian
26-09-2010, 00:18
For a mounted Prince, I use:
Helm of Fortune
Dragon Armor
Shield
Barded Elven Steed
Talisman of Saphery
Magic weapon
- Usually either Star Lance or Ogre Blade (the +2S one)
- Another option is to take a Great Weapon, lose the shield, and take something else (Like a Ward Save), but that drops his AS by 1.

He has a 1+ rerollable armor save, and treats all magic weapons as mundane.

On foot, I take:
Armor of Caledor
Vambraces of Defence
Great Weapon

2+ Rerollable AS, 4+ ward, high S attacks.

For the mages, I usually use Seer Staff and Annulian Crystal.

Arathalle
26-09-2010, 00:25
Thanks very much, Tarian, I appreciate the response very much. The chances are almost for sure that my Prince will be on foot. In this edition of Fantasy I'm tending to put my characters on foot more often than not.

I really like the build you suggested for the Prince on foot. However, since my Battle Standard Bearer is using the Armour of Caledor, I suppose that it could be replaced with something else along the same lines. The Armour of Silvered Steel comes to mind, as it would still give him the 2+ Armour save, and it would also still allow me to purchase the Vambraces of Defense for him. Very nice. I can see myself using the Seerstaff on the Mage using the Lore of Shadows, and perhaps the Annulian Crystal on the Life Mage. Thanks again, Tarian.

Arathalle

Tarian
26-09-2010, 00:28
Cheers! Glad to help! I mentioned the mounted prince because I'm thinking about abandoning my dual arch-mage list, and going back to my Caledorian-themed list, replete with Dragon and Dragon Princes.

On a list related note, I'd probably put the Prince with the LSG, as the Swordmasters do not need his killy power, and they're a fire magnet anyways.

Arathalle
26-09-2010, 00:36
Totally agree, Tarian, the Sword Masters are bound to attract just about any and all firepower the enemy can muster, I'm sure...and for good reason, I suppose. However, having mentioned that, how do you suggest protecting them from such attacks as best as possible? I'm thinking maybe the Ironcurse Icon on the Bladelord would be a good start, and possibly give them a little protection from war machine fire...but not nearly enough for my liking. Thoughts?

Arathalle

Tarian
26-09-2010, 00:49
I tend to give them the Standard of Balance, then run them at the enemy, usually behind some Dragon Princes or something. I try to protect them through target overload, figuring if they're shooting the Swordmasters, they're *not* shooting something else. Talisman of Loec is great for a Bladelord as an assassin tool, can usually drop enemy heroes, sometimes lords depending on the race/gear.

Arathalle
26-09-2010, 01:00
Nice, thanks again Tarian, I like that a lot. I mean, in the High Elf army pretty much everything is valuable, so that's a great point...if they're shooting at my Sword Masters enough to seriously diminish them, then something else is making to their lines intact, like Lion Chariots and Dragon Princes. I think you're right on; target overload is the way to go. Luckily, pretty much everything in the High Elf list, thanks to Speed of Asuryan is something the enemy really does have to deal with, or pay the consequence. Thanks, Tarian. May I ask what kind of list you tend to run at the 2000 points level?

Arathalle

Arathalle
26-09-2010, 04:38
I've been thinking, for Warhost I, that I may replace one of the Lion Chariots for an additional character. Either a second Mage, or more likely, a martial Noble to enhance the killing power of the Phoenix Guard. The Phoenix Guard unit is really a mainstay of the army, and having a nasty Noble in there might very well end up being more valuable than having a second Lion Chariot. We'll see what I can come up with for a Noble build for this purpose(essentially sheer killyness within a unit of Phoenix Guard...), and write a list for Warhost I v2. Any thoughts on a suitable Noble build for this purpose would be most welcome.

Edit: Alright, as promised, version 2 of Warhost I. So far I'm liking it, and have a few points leftover to play with for magic items and banners for a unit or two. Let me know what you think.

Archmage-
Level 4
Talisman of Saphery
Silver Wand
Folariath's Robe

Noble-
Battle Standard Bearer
Halberd
Armour of Caledor
Guardian Phoenix

Noble-
Great Weapon
Armour of Silvered Steel
Luckstone

19 Lothern Sea Guard-
Sea Master
Musician
Standard Bearer
Shields

19 Lothern Sea Guard-
Sea Master
Musician
Standard Bearer
Shields

19 Phoenix Guard-
Keeper of the Flame
Musician
Standard Bearer

Lion Chariot of Chrace

12 Sword Masters of Hoeth-
Bladelord
Musician
Standard Bearer

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

Current Total is 1966 points.

Now, there's a few different ways I could go with this. First of all, what do you think of the additional Noble build? I could go with the Radiant Gem of Hoeth build on him and make him an extra Wizard, which is definitely a possibility. It would cut down on his survivability somewhat, but it might be worth it. Also, which magic items and banners do you think would be worthwhile spreading around to some of the units and unit champions here?

Arathalle

clanfield
26-09-2010, 08:16
i think that giving the dragon princes the war banner is a major improvement in there capacity or if your worried about magic the banner of arcane protection ,i like the mask of eee as well for the champion terror is always fun

as to protecting the sword masters you could split them into smaller units
im currently useing white lions in place of them as a experiment 3+sv vs shooting cannt hurt and wounding on a 2+, -3 save is good but im faceing a lot of hydras at the moment so thats just my local groups way

edit just a thought thou if your bsb was in a unit of pheonix guards you could save the points on the guardian pheonix?
i like the noble but i ussaly go light on magic items,and would probly use 1 unit of spearmen instaed of 1 sea guard just to gain more bodys

and always use a bolt thrower to mess with enermy cav
list 2 is a sold heavy infantry list though

Tarian
26-09-2010, 15:25
My mage 2000:

Arch Mage
Level 4
Silver Wand
Talisman of Saphery
Forlaith's Robe
Lore of Shadow

Mage
Level 2
Annulian Crystal
High Magic

Battle Standard
Standard
Armor of Caledor
Great Weapon

Lothern Seaguard x15
Standard
Champion
Musician

Lothern Seaguard x20
Standard
Champion
Musician

Phoenix Guard x20
Standard
Banner of Sorcery
Musician
Keeper of the Flame

Swordmasters of Hoeth x14
Standard
Musician
Bladelord

Repeater Bolt Throwers x2

or

Caledor 2000:

Prince
Barded Elven Steed
Dragon Armor
Talisman of Saphery
Helm of Fortune
Lance
Shield

Mage
Level 2
Annulian Crystal
High Magic

Battle Standard
Standard
Barded Elven Steed
Dragon Armor
Lance
Warbanner

Lothern Seaguard x15
Standard
Champion
Musician

Lothern Seaguard x20
Standard
Champion
Musician

Dragon Princes x9
Standard
Champion
Iron Curse
Musician
Standard of Balance

Swordmasters x9
Bladelord

Dragon Princes x6

Repeater Bolt Throwers x2

Arathalle
26-09-2010, 19:00
Thanks for the thoughts, clanfield, those are some really good points, and I'll be taking some of those into serious consideration. I'm really glad you dig Warhost II...I like it too, and I think it could be quite good. Your magic items suggestions are also very interesting, and I'm definitely going to have to look into them.

Thanks for sharing your lists, Tarian, I really like both of them. It's also nice to see that we're both pretty much on the same page when it comes to playing our High Elves. I think I'm going to try and do some re-writes on both versions of the list and see what I can come up with, using both of your ideas. Thanks so much.

Arathalle