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KnightofUltramar
08-03-2006, 17:22
I'm thinking about buying the FW Valkarie, because I like the model and I think it would be a fine resin kit to begin with. I play space marines and I'd like to use it in a battle, but I don't know if I can use it. Does anyone know if I can use it?

thanks

Captain Brown
08-03-2006, 17:30
I do not think this is allowed under the normal rules.

Perhaps you could use it as a proxy for a Rhino on a Rhino sized base?

Chaos and Evil
08-03-2006, 17:33
A Valkyrie is not a valid transport choice for Marines I'm afraid.

The nearest thing would be to proxy it as a Thunderhawk Gunship perhaps?

Alternately, get 10 Storm Troopers and use them with your Valkyrie, you can say they're new Marine inductees who've yet to develop super-strength and the ability to spit acid.

boogle
08-03-2006, 17:39
or you could get some DH or WH allies, just make sure you have at least 5 IST in there

ghost hunter
08-03-2006, 19:37
do what you want as long as you check that its alright with your oponent my freind has converted sevrel rhinos one has got wings on and another is being dragged by three bikes then he has the chaplin on trike with green mohecan

boogle
08-03-2006, 19:39
what a strange friend you have

darknar
08-03-2006, 22:12
FW Valkarie are awsome models, got one myself, plan to get another 2 if the maurader bomber didnt look so tempting.

mkay i would have a inquisitor with inquisitorial storm trooper bodyguard. depending on what sp[ace marne chapater you take really depends on what inquisitor it is. but some space marine chapters dont like having allies so look up your background befiore you buy

Getz
08-03-2006, 23:41
A Valkyrie is not a valid transport choice for Marines I'm afraid.

The nearest thing would be to proxy it as a Thunderhawk Gunship perhaps?

Alternately, get 10 Storm Troopers and use them with your Valkyrie, you can say they're new Marine inductees who've yet to develop super-strength and the ability to spit acid.

Or you could just suck it up and face the fact that it's an IG option, not an SM one.

Alternatively, how about I use a Landraider in My Guard Regiment?

Hlokk
08-03-2006, 23:51
Or you could just suck it up and face the fact that it's an IG option, not an SM one.
Yeah, cos thats helpful :rolleyes:

What about using it with the VDR rules. Using something I quickly knocked up for you, I came out with:

Points 210
Front Armour 11
Side Armour 10
Rear Armour 10
BS 4

Type:
Light Vehicle
Size:Normal
Speed:Fast

Weapons:
2 x Heavy bolter
1 x Lascannon

Special Options:
Transport 10
Orbital lander
Skimmer
Souped-up engine

Vehicle Category:
Heavy Support

Getz
09-03-2006, 00:02
Yeah, cos thats helpful :rolleyes:


Not especially, but it is the fact of the matter. Wanna use a Valkyrie? Play Guard.

At the end of the day, the Valkyrie is balanced for the Stormtroopers, and as a owner of three I can tell you it would be ungodly powerful if it were packed full off Space Marines - did you realise, for example, that you can hot drop the squad out of the Valk during your opponents turn and assault with them immeadiately after during your turn? It makes Deepstriking of Drop-Podding look ever so tame. With Stormies that's not such a problem as even Stormtroopers aren't great in HtH, but with Marines - perhaps armed with BP, CCW and Furious charge - it's an entirely different kettle of fish.

So no, I would not allow an opponent to use a Valk outside of an IG or Inquisition list, even in a friendly game.

KingNova3000
09-03-2006, 00:04
Just ask your opponent if you can use it as an allie, in most games you would ever use a Valkarie in would be friendly games anyway. Some Valkaries would be under direct control of the Imperial Navy (the Imperial Navy isn't a section of the Imperial Guard for those playing at home), the Imperail Navy often sends air support to other Imperial armies (SM, DH, WH, XH, IG and Adeptus Titanicus), Use it as a Valkarie of the Imperail Navy and if you want chuck in some Storm Troopers from the DH or WH army list.

NorthernMike
09-03-2006, 00:11
Yeah, I think the only way is to get DH or WH allied stormies or an Inquisitor. At least the Inquisitor can be made to "fit" the SM role with the 3+ armour.

Honestly though, I have to say that it doesn't really fit the SM look though. Just look at the design differences in SM to IG stuff. SM = Boxy and bulky, just look at them, their dreads, tanks, rhinos, speeders, bikes, and for flyers the Thunderhawk. IG stuff has a very different take on more realistic or "human" vehicles.

Just my 2cents.

marv335
09-03-2006, 00:51
whilst you may not use a valkyrie, you can use a vulture in conjunction with a damoclese command rhino.

Chaos and Evil
09-03-2006, 01:21
I agree with Getz, it's simply not balanced for use with Marines.

But like others have said, use an Inquisitor with a retinue of 10 Storm Troopers (A Valkyrie can carry 12 humans).

If you want a plane that can act as a Marine Transport, you need to take (Or use the rules for) a Thunderhawk Gunship.

the archangel
10-03-2006, 09:12
Lets image this conversation taking

SM vet Sgt: My squad needs to get there fast, may i borrow your valkarie....please?

IG Lt: No i want it for later

SM vet Sgt: it wasn't really a request, are the keys in the ignition, ta.

do we see any? IG argueing with SM, not Bl##dy likely.

Yes but maybe only a HQ or turning your Tactical squad into a fast attack choice ( 0-1 ) limit.

Cheers

Sai-Lauren
10-03-2006, 09:29
Well, I don't really see a marine saying please or thank you, and how often would it happen in any case.

There's also their indoctrination to consider, a Valkyrie may be considered utterly beneath them and not worthy to carry the noblest warriors of the emperor. Chimera are probably better vehicles than Rhinos, but Marines don't have them either.

And of course, that assumes it can actually lift and carry what would effectively be something like ten tons of armour, meat and weapons. (A marine probably weighs something like an NFL linebacker, maybe even more like an O-Lineman (roughly 250-350 lbs). His armour is almost certainly going to weigh around the same, and by the time weapons, ammo, other kit etc is on board, you won't be getting much change from an average of 1000lbs a man), whilst it's normal complement of guardsmen/stormtroopers probably don't even come in at half that weight.

Vultures, or some similar type of gunship I can certainly see being used for CAS missions, I just don't think Valkyries are man enough for the job.

Getz
10-03-2006, 10:51
Lets image this conversation taking

SM vet Sgt: My squad needs to get there fast, may i borrow your valkarie....please?

IG Lt: No i want it for later

SM vet Sgt: it wasn't really a request, are the keys in the ignition, ta.

do we see any? IG argueing with SM, not Bl##dy likely.

Yes but maybe only a HQ or turning your Tactical squad into a fast attack choice ( 0-1 ) limit.

Cheers


The IG do not take their orders from the SM's so it would actually go more like this...

SM Vet Sarge: "I want your Valkyrie!"

IG Lt: "No."

SM Vet Sarge (realising he has no authority over the Officer short of forcing him at bolter point): "Um..."

Ironhand
10-03-2006, 11:29
Well, you could always use the Valkyrie to start a drop troops IG army :). Seriously, as others have pointed out, the Valkyrie doesn't fit a Space Marine army, so I'd save my money - cool as the model is.

fracas
10-03-2006, 11:48
Valkyries for space marines?
might as well take land raiders for your imperial guard army


seriously, it would unbalance the list

buy the model
paint it up
if you want to play with it, add some ig or storm troopers

Gaebriel
10-03-2006, 13:19
As been mentioned, take a small contingent of inquisitorial forces, Inquisitorial storm troopers, or IIRC an Inquisitor with retinue (can take them?) - May as well take two then, and call it an inquisitorial quick response force. That way you can use them legally, as well as use them with different armies.

LostTemplar
10-03-2006, 15:24
Unlike it is so often here considered, I doubt taking Land Raiders would unbalance the Guard. Seriously, IT COSTS TWO LEMAN RUSSES! ANd it lack an ordenance weapon! Its stupid to consider the option. But if they were Predators....

Back to Topic. Yes, you may, but not using FW rules for it. You will have to take a VDR trip to make its rules, but it'd be perfectly acceptable under such condition. I actually feel it'd cost around the same, especially if taken with the same BS.

Axel
10-03-2006, 17:05
If a Valkyrie is available, and a squad of Marines need a fast transport, I can well imagine that they will use it regardless the opinion of the next available IG officer. I doubt that they would take a "No" from an IG as an excuse to fail their mission.
They would, however, probably use it as fast transport only - they certainly lack the training to deepstrike from it, and I can imagine that the pilot is disinclined to offer air support in a SM-fight. So you could perhaps just use it with the drop-pod rules, or you need to make VDR-rules for it. Fluffwise that would imho not pose too much of a problem for special missions.

Chaos and Evil
10-03-2006, 17:24
On any mission behind enemy lines Marines would use the far more effective Thunderhawk Gunships or Drop Pods... Marines don't use Valkyries because of their poor armour, limited lifting capacity, pitiful ammount of weapons and atmosphere-bound status.

It would take a truly exceptional event for a Marine Sergeant to want to use a Valkyrie, even if it was capable of lifting a Marine squad at all!

Puffin Magician
11-03-2006, 01:18
Despite the insane and irrelevant tangent of Imperial Guard Land Raiders, Marine armies can include a Valkyrie and no you do not need Inquisitorial Storm Troopers.

But you do need an Inquisitor. The Inquisitorial Valkyrie is a transport option for Inquisitors so long as they have a retinue [which could be as simple as Servoskulls]; check out Imperial Armour Volume Two, p205.

Scorpio
11-03-2006, 03:06
On the U.S. site they have an article about flyer rules somewhere....
o well as long as you dont use it in a tournament(I assume you know that wont happen) who cares? approve it with your opponent and its fine.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
11-03-2006, 03:11
The problem arises when you turn up for a game and say;
"Can I use my Valkerie for my Space Marine squad?", to which your opponent may respond;
"Is that in the rules?"
"no"
"Then no"

KnightofUltramar
11-03-2006, 19:41
well, thanks for the imput. just another question: can I use elysians as ally? then I have an excuse for using the valkerie and to begin an elysian force

Gaebriel
11-03-2006, 22:01
well, thanks for the imput. just another question: can I use elysians as ally? then I have an excuse for using the valkerie and to begin an elysian force
You cannot strictly ally Elysians and Space Marines, no. There is no way to put Space Marines and Imperial Guard units together in one Force. You could, however (with your opponents consent) use two Force organization charts (each fulfilling the minimal requirements), if you're extremely eager to combine Space Marines and Imperial Guard in one game.

ankara halla
11-03-2006, 22:10
If you used the Elysians as Inquisitorial Storm Troopers (and those models fit the bill beautifully) then you could use them as allies to Space Marines fair and square.

Darth Ghandi
12-03-2006, 14:58
I play SM and if i was in your shoes i'd get and inquisitor with a few stormtroopers.
I think marines in one of those would be very imba.

Mr Evil
12-03-2006, 16:47
Can you ally Elysians with Grey Knights though? Seems like they'd work well together.

Axel
12-03-2006, 23:43
Can you ally Elysians with Grey Knights though? Seems like they'd work well together.

Demon Hunters may ally with Imperial Guard and deviant lists,like Catachans, etc. I hope that there is no question that the Elysians are a variant of the Imperial Guard, even when they are from FW. You need opponents consent for FW-stuff anyway, and when you use them via doctrines (Drop troops) then they are offically alliable.

boogle
13-03-2006, 00:27
since when did you have to have permission to use Elysians?

Tom
13-03-2006, 03:17
Since when did someone deny permission for someone else's entire army and not get beaten to a bloody pulp?

Scorpio
13-03-2006, 03:38
Good point.
I say just take a Inquistor and a few stormtroopies then take a valkrye.