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View Full Version : Trickster's Crown vs. Killing Blow



Skjoldr
27-09-2010, 05:31
So, this occured to me tonight. Trickster's Crown forces the opposing player to re-roll all successful to-wound rolls. Now, that part is key. A natural six is always a success. So, in theory, would the crown not force the opponent to re-roll possible KBs? Obviously this is a double-edged sword (crown...) since a lower to-wound roll could be re-rolled to KB, but just something that caught my attention. I don't see any reason why the KB rule would override the Crown. Am I right here?

Yrrdead
27-09-2010, 06:26
Yes.

Now I see why people add little signatures to their posts. It's to get around that darn character limit.

eyescrossed
27-09-2010, 06:42
Of course, any sporting player probably wouldn't play it like that.

Djekar
27-09-2010, 06:51
I don't see why it wouldn't make them reroll Killing Blows, it seems to be pretty straightforward to me. For me, I've always been a little more confused about how it interacts with poison. So far, we've just been playing as poison bypasses the helm, thanks for paying 50 points sucka!

WusteGeist
27-09-2010, 06:58
Of course, any sporting player probably wouldn't play it like that.


I don't see why it wouldn't make them reroll Killing Blows, it seems to be pretty straightforward to me. For me, I've always been a little more confused about how it interacts with poison. So far, we've just been playing as poison bypasses the helm, thanks for paying 50 points sucka!

eyescrossed How is using it as described being none sporting?

Djekar you are playing it correctly in regards to poison. Rember poison is a to HIT roll NOT to wound roll. So the helm does nadda in regards to to hit modifiers and things that work on to hit rolls.

eyescrossed
27-09-2010, 07:33
I dunno, any rolls of 6 succeeding seems a bit stupid to me.

WusteGeist
27-09-2010, 07:47
I am honestly confused. KB is a wound roll, yes it is a special rule but still uses the to wound roll mechanic to work. The armour does just like the special rule, introduces it's own special rule into the mechanic. So you stride up and roll to hit, you hit YAH!!! Now you roll to wound, a 6 comes up, beheading in the works YAH!!!! Now the armour is looked at for any possible saves, but wait it has caveat. Reroll that nasty 6 you rolled, as its a to wound roll BOOO!!!! So you re-roll and up comes a 3 or something not 6. Not a dead dudeman. YAH!!!??? Humm maybe Booo!!!??? Like I said I am confused. Not with the workings of this but of your statement. Mainly because the argument of "that's stupid" has never made sense to me in any sense. Mind you I am not attacking you, I just dislike the basis of any argument to be " I do not like that" as that is not logical.

eyescrossed
27-09-2010, 13:09
Wait, where does it say that a natural 6 to Wound is ALWAYS a success? I could only find the passage for rolling to Hit.

theunwantedbeing
27-09-2010, 14:12
The armour says you re-roll successful rolls to wound.
A killing blow is a successfull roll to wound, so must be re-rolled.

There is no rule that a natural 6 is always a success.
This is a made up rule from looking at the to-wound chart and seeing how a 6 will score a wound even if you are strength 1 and the enemy is toughness 10.

However a natural 6 will always be a successfull to-wound roll, this doesnt stop the armour from making successful to-wound roll be re-rolled though. (or any other similar item for that matter).

Seems there's a wording confusion based on not properly checking the relevant rules.
Always check the wording of rules.

The bearded one
27-09-2010, 14:17
A roll of a 6 is always a succes ( as in, str1 vs T10, a 6 still wounds )
The tricksters helm ( it's a helm ) forces your opponent to reroll succesfull rolls to wound.

A killing blow is a succesfull roll to wound, as it requires a 6 on the to wound roll, and a 6 is always a succesfull roll to wound.

Therefore the tricksters helm can force an enemy to reroll 6's that scored a killing blow.


"Always a succes" doesn't mean it cannot be stopped or defended against with special rules and such. Otherwise wardsaves wouldn't work either :)

Thundergod
27-09-2010, 17:23
hey bearded one! whats up my Dawi brother?
"Always wounds on a 6" is a de facto rule. It is not spelled out at such, but as TUB points out, a reading of the wound chart shows it to be so.
Even if it were a rule de jure, a six is still a successful role. As such, the helm can force the reroll. Cut and dried, nothing rude about it. Wack! Clang! Try again!
Normally this is where i would point out it is not always a good idea to force your opponent to reroll (40k venerable dreds), but if your head is going to be lopped off, the worst that can happen is it gets lopped off again.

eyescrossed
27-09-2010, 20:32
the armour says you re-roll successful rolls to wound.
A killing blow is a successfull roll to wound, so must be re-rolled.

There is no rule that a natural 6 is always a success.
This is a made up rule from looking at the to-wound chart and seeing how a 6 will score a wound even if you are strength 1 and the enemy is toughness 10.

However a natural 6 will always be a successfull to-wound roll, this doesnt stop the armour from making successful to-wound roll be re-rolled though. (or any other similar item for that matter).

Seems there's a wording confusion based on not properly checking the relevant rules.
Always check the wording of rules.


a roll of a 6 is always a succes ( as in, str1 vs t10, a 6 still wounds )
the tricksters helm ( it's a helm ) forces your opponent to reroll succesfull rolls to wound.

A killing blow is a succesfull roll to wound, as it requires a 6 on the to wound roll, and a 6 is always a succesfull roll to wound.

Therefore the tricksters helm can force an enemy to reroll 6's that scored a killing blow.


"always a succes" doesn't mean it cannot be stopped or defended against with special rules and such. Otherwise wardsaves wouldn't work either :)


hey bearded one! Whats up my dawi brother?
"always wounds on a 6" is a de facto rule. It is not spelled out at such, but as tub points out, a reading of the wound chart shows it to be so.
Even if it were a rule de jure, a six is still a successful role. As such, the helm can force the reroll. Cut and dried, nothing rude about it. Wack! Clang! Try again!
Normally this is where i would point out it is not always a good idea to force your opponent to reroll (40k venerable dreds), but if your head is going to be lopped off, the worst that can happen is it gets lopped off again.

Thank you!

T10
27-09-2010, 20:35
Now I see why people add little signatures to their posts. It's to get around that darn character limit.

Yes.

-T10

eyescrossed
27-09-2010, 20:49
Yes.

-T10

-gives T10 some interwebz-

At least the Trickster's Helm hasn't been (incorrectly) nerfed :shifty: