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Entreri Bloodletter
27-09-2010, 13:57
Just a few questions:

1. Do fanatics have a facing in regards to the waaaaaagh spell as it forces them to move to the nearest visible enemy?

2. Can a BSB use a shield?

3. Can I reroll the result of Gorks Waaaaagh Banner(+ D6 inches to charge) due to the Rampage standard?

theunwantedbeing
27-09-2010, 14:29
1. No they don't, they face all directions.
2. If he is allowed one, yes he may use one as normal.
3. No, the banner only allows you to re-roll the charge distance dice, the waagghhh banner adds d6" to the charge move.

Mid'ean
27-09-2010, 15:10
The WAAGGH spell and fanatics is just crazy good. Turns your random spinney balls of death into guided missiles......:D

AlphariusOmegon20
27-09-2010, 15:17
2. Can a BSB use a shield?



No IIRC, the O&G book is one of the older books that doesn't allow BSB's to have shields. I think the first book that got shields for BSB's was either HE or DE, which came after the O&G one, though my memory on which book it was that got it first is a bit fuzzy.

ColShaw
27-09-2010, 15:49
Alpharius is right. It's like the Bretonnian book that way. Sigh.

Mid'ean
27-09-2010, 16:06
No IIRC, the O&G book is one of the older books that doesn't allow BSB's to have shields. I think the first book that got shields for BSB's was either HE or DE, which came after the O&G one, though my memory on which book it was that got it first is a bit fuzzy.

Correct. No shield option as BsB. But at least a Bl Ork can get a 2handed weapon with armed to da'teef.

Kalandros
27-09-2010, 16:11
No rule against taking a magic shield now I think, for BSBs.

Lorcryst
27-09-2010, 16:21
No rule against taking a magic shield now I think, for BSBs.

AFAIK (don't have the 8th ed rulebook with me), you can take a magic item if and only if you can take the mundane version ... so for O&G, since BSBs can't take a mundane shield, they cannot take a magical shield.

But I may be wrong on that ...

Mid'ean
27-09-2010, 17:05
Correct. As a BsB you do not have the option for a shield so you can't take a magical one.

Synnister
27-09-2010, 19:08
It doesn't say you have to have the mundane option to take a magical version. The only reference for that is wizards only being able to have armor if they have mundane options for it.

As for the fanatics question, there's some debate on that. You essentially have to house rule it because the current wording on the spell/fanatic makes it impossible to use. There is no way to draw LOS from the fanatic and the spell actually causes the model that contacts an enemy to charge. Nothing in the fanatic rules say that they can't charge. So, yeah you have to come to an understanding with your group.

Ney
28-09-2010, 10:53
You can very much take magical shields in 8th edition. No longer a rule about the mundane version. Which for instance means that Ogres has access to 5pts enchanted shields, and that Orc BSB's can take magical shields as well.

AlphariusOmegon20
28-09-2010, 15:47
You can very much take magical shields in 8th edition. No longer a rule about the mundane version. Which for instance means that Ogres has access to 5pts enchanted shields, and that Orc BSB's can take magical shields as well.

Unfortunately, the BRB I believe does state the AB trumps BRB.

So no Shields for Orcs, as they do not have the option.

a18no
28-09-2010, 18:18
Unfortunately, the BRB I believe does state the AB trumps BRB.

So no Shields for Orcs, as they do not have the option.

No, just like said before you, the only restriction for magical armor is for mage. No restriction for any other character. So a BSB can take enchanted shield or any other magical shield. But night goblin shaman can't.

Djekar
29-09-2010, 06:15
The O&G book states that the BSB cannot choose additional mundane equipment except for light or heavy armor as normal. The BRB does not say that to choose a magical armor/weapon/badger that you have to have the option for the mundane version. Ergo the O&G BSBs can have magical shields.

This also leads to the hilariously annoying Skaven Assassin with the Armor of Silvered Steel that pranced around the Tactics forum about a month ago.

Lorcryst
29-09-2010, 07:59
Well, I learned something new ... thanks guys !

patrikhuset
01-10-2010, 06:35
So with WAAAAGH spell i can move my fanatics in which way i want? is that correct?

Ney
01-10-2010, 07:48
So with WAAAAGH spell i can move my fanatics in which way i want? is that correct?

No! Only towards the NEAREST enemy!

Synnister
01-10-2010, 22:51
No! Only towards the NEAREST enemy!

That's not correct either. It's towards the nearest VISIBLE enemy. As fanatics lack a forward arc therefore no way to determine what is visible or not, you can't really move them anywhere because if no enemies are visible it moves straight forward. However, you can't determine forward since it is on a round base.

Currently, fanatics are broken with the interaction with both spells that move friendly units. Best course of action is to discuss with your opponent prior to the game and come up with a reasonable solution.

AMWOOD co
02-10-2010, 05:00
That's not correct either. It's towards the nearest VISIBLE enemy. As fanatics lack a forward arc therefore no way to determine what is visible or not, you can't really move them anywhere because if no enemies are visible it moves straight forward. However, you can't determine forward since it is on a round base.

What does forward have to do with Line of Sight? Check the Line of Sight rules and show me where facing is mentioned in them?

Synnister
04-10-2010, 22:38
What does forward have to do with Line of Sight? Check the Line of Sight rules and show me where facing is mentioned in them?

Pg 39 says that in order to shoot at something you must first see if it is VISIBLE. To do that you check two straight forward rules, 1) is the target in the forward arc and 2) is there an unobstructed LOS to the target. Therefore in order to be visible which is what the spell says you have to move to, the target must fall in the forward arc. Also, in an article discussing the changes from 7th to 8th, Jervis mentions that NO model has 360* LOS.

Also, as this is a permissive ruleset, check the LOS rules and show me where 360* LOS is mentioned?

TMATK
05-10-2010, 01:51
This is just another of the many oversights in the rules that will never be FAQ'd. Save your sanity and house rule fanatics to just waaagh to the nearest enemy.

AMWOOD co
05-10-2010, 04:37
Pg 39 says that in order to shoot at something you must first see if it is VISIBLE. To do that you check two straight forward rules, 1) is the target in the forward arc and 2) is there an unobstructed LOS to the target. Therefore in order to be visible which is what the spell says you have to move to, the target must fall in the forward arc. Also, in an article discussing the changes from 7th to 8th, Jervis mentions that NO model has 360* LOS.

Also, as this is a permissive ruleset, check the LOS rules and show me where 360* LOS is mentioned?

Yes, I know all about how in the charging and shooting sections, Line of Sight and Forward Arc are both needed. I also know that whenever Line of Sight is needed for targetting a spell in the new Lores, Forward Arc is also needed. However, the fact remains that they are still two separate rules. I also understand that whole article and can see why he made that statement, and agree that single models cannot, by the current rules, charge or shoot 360 degrees. Allow me to present a case based on this specific set of words:


For one model to have line of sight to another, you must be able to trace an unblocked line from its eyes to any part of the body ... of the target.

Now, consider two models in the Daemon Army. One is a Two headed Changer of ways and the other is a Flaming Chariot that has lost its rider. The first can have the heads set in such a way that a line of sight can be drawn to models behind it. This means that it has a 360 degree line of sight by the rules. The second has no eyes. Therefore, it has no line of sight and cannot charge by strict reading of the rules.

To avoid abusive interpretations and modelling techniques, one must either conclude that line of sight should be used as it used to be in 7th (ie front arc only) or should expand it to allow for full 360 ability. Note that for purposes of shooting, casting and charging, however, the rules intend for you to only be able to 'see' within your front arc (hexes and augments excepted for spell casting) no matter which interpretation you use.

Using 360 line of sight avoids issues with War Machines (which seem to have no arcs), fanatcs (which also have no arcs, and who wants to remeber which way a fanatic is 'facing', especially if you have a dozen on the field at once), and any other oddity models. The negative side is when magic items or spells refer to the target drawing Line of Sight to something, as they almost always will. Every unit drawing line of sight to the Casket of Souls becomes a very real threat.

Another reason I use a 360 line of sight is a very simple one... don't your models have necks and the soldiers they represent would be able to glance behind themselves? As such I draw line of sight from my models' eye level (or some equivalent point on models without eyes like a steam tank with the hatch closed) and simply ignore the model itself for drawing line of sight to a target.

Now, if you would rather use the 7th edition add on of a model can only draw line of sight within its front arc, that's a house rule. If you want to use my interpretation, that's also a house rule. The rule as stands has too much potential for abuse and should be changed.

Tregar
05-10-2010, 09:49
I know it freaks a LOT of people out but you really have to houserule/apply common sense to fanatics being moved by magic. Feel free not to if that's your thing, but be prepared for lots of arguments. But then, you'd probably be the kind of gamer that argues everything as well. Ugh.

And yes, pretty much all BSBs in the game can have magical shields now, whoo.

Note: exceptions are exceptional. Don't bother replying to tell me that Dwarf or Daemon ones still can't have magic shields.