PDA

View Full Version : Warriors top tier?



Hashulaman
28-09-2010, 23:08
I have heard discussions about whaere armies stand (some teir some just in general.) As a WoC player first and foremost I wonder if WoC is near the top as far as a good competetive army. I have a run of bad luck recently with them and I am wondering where Warriors of Chaos are in the pecking order of armies.

Storak
28-09-2010, 23:09
at the top.

Tarian
28-09-2010, 23:10
<insert player skill here>, or at least thereabouts.

Frankly
28-09-2010, 23:49
They certainly got a few rules buffs, and play well around my neck of the woods, I watched WoC lists place 2nd and 3rd in the 2 tournaments I've been too.

I do actually beleive it comes down to player skill and army selection, not actually picking the 'best' units, but picking the best combined force, WoC seem to pivet on its support selection/character selection imho.

Great armybook, tough to play against sometimes.

Hashulaman
28-09-2010, 23:56
Well what you take can be sometimes as important as how well you play. I know some armies like empire and dwarf gunline seem to be armeis that can win no matter how bad someone plays.

sulla
29-09-2010, 02:37
Warriors are an excellent army in 8th. Both great weapon marauders and all varieties of warriors are very tough for most armies to deal with, their special characters are all either good or excellent, big guys like trolls and ogres work better in this edition than the last, they have one of the best war machines in the game and knights and chariots still hit as hard as ever.

Characters are very expensive, especially compared to warriors blocks or marauder hordes, but mages are still powerful.

I'm not a fan of tier talk, but WoC are certainly the fearsome foe that the fluff always describes them as.

GenerationTerrorist
29-09-2010, 03:00
Yep. I think we are just fine in 8th Edition. Probably the best Core infantry in the game with either the basic Warrior or kitted out Marauder.

Which is suprising really given how mediocre the same army book, and above units, were in 7th!

Djekar
29-09-2010, 06:57
Overall, I believe like everyone else so far that WoC is doing very well in this edition, and while skill does mean the most, a good army book helps too.

That being said, the bane of a WoC army is flexibility. Once your opponent "figures you out" you have less to fall back on than other armies. Basically WoC is combat guys, other combat guys, bigger combat guys, fast combat guys and sorcerers. It can be a little tough to keep things varied with that kind of a set up, but ultimately the list is built to smash things in the ugly face and it does a dang fine job of it.

scarvet
29-09-2010, 07:07
I think it is the hardship in 7th made WoC looks good. Once the transaction form 7th to 8th complete, I expect WoC to be tier 2 without a new book.

BaSe
29-09-2010, 08:18
Most seem to be classing WoC as tier 2 which suits me fine. Having just started I'd rather play an army that people know some skill is required to play well and not just reliant on the army book.

Althwen
29-09-2010, 08:49
Agreed. Warriors can hold their own against pretty much anything and dish out serious amounts of damage in the process!
While I'm experiencing great success with cheap characters (fielded a Lord, lvl2, lvl 1 and a BSB in 2000 pts yesterday for a total of only 808 pts.)
the WoC's hamstring is indeed variety. The Chaos of olds with all those different Beastmen, Daemons and warriors just looked so much cooler! :D

Lazarian
29-09-2010, 09:04
well the difficulty in selecting WOC as a lower teir army is that the army is currently the easiest to use after you select at least a sensible army list.

Your walking straight forward and there is little your opponent can do about it, right now until everyone gets more experience with the intricacies of 9th they have to be considered top tier (if there is such a thing) only because of the effect of throwing a cinder block at your enemy and them being unable to dodge it.

Even if they try to maneuver or get crazy warhounds do a lot of work and smooth out a lot of issues the army has. They simply can take too much toughness and numbers to be phased by a gunline and can have a moderate magic phase.

Havock
29-09-2010, 17:35
Warriors do well if you play to their strength, marauders are fine and all but fairly easily dealt with. A wall of S4 T4 good save dudes coming at you while their casters pound your support and his hellcannon pounds it some more is not fun for most people. Especially when aside from some unit setups, there is fairly little that can go unsopported through 20 chaos warriors ;)

russellmoo
29-09-2010, 20:42
Definitely top tier- as is any other army that can field T4 multiple attacks per model units- The higher toughness, combined with the ridiculous amount of attacks, plus good armor makes a large block of Chaos warriors almost unbeatable one-on-one. They are also very user friendly just use a little magic, fire your Hellcannon and go straight at the enemy-

This is the only reason that WoC armies lose- is the fact that they are obvious in their strategy- but this of course doesn't mean you can stop it, but it does mean that they will lose the occasional game to very skilled players and other top tier armies-

So overall I would put them below Lizards, and Dark elfs- about even with Skaven- better than the other army's-

The Teclis list is probably the top tier army- but other than that High elfs are tier 2.

TheKingInYellow
29-09-2010, 21:36
I think the thing that makes WoC top tier is that our Core is good enough to win without any specials or rares.

Seriously, in 8th, there are still a lot of armies that are moaning about needing to take 25% core, like Vamps, High Elves, TK, etc... WoC could field nothing but core and one hero and win a lot of games.

The change to require 25% core is a huge bump to the overall effectiveness of WoC.

SiNNiX
30-09-2010, 07:08
WOC are definitely awesome in 8th, but only due to a few things (MoK flail marauder hordes, maybe?). As far as being in the top 3 most legit armies in 8th? Nah, I don't see it. I have yet to see them take War Lord in any tournament, much less Best General. The army still takes relatively low player skill to use; that's not an insult to WOC players, just to the army itself. I'd say top 3 in 8th so far, based off of what I've seen, heard, and read, would be Lizards, Empire/OnG hordes, and Dwarfs. Skaven and WOC come in close 4th in my opinion. I have yet to lose to a WOC army, with Lizards and Dwarfs, and I've faced the cheese lists. Then again, maybe I just have anti-WOC army builds.

Just not a huge fan. The thing that really makes them the most dangerous is that they're so incredibly easy to use. Strategies are pretty straight-forward and success can easily gained by doing the same thing over and over, every battle.

Althwen
30-09-2010, 10:10
Well, I agree that WoC has become more userfriendly in 8th. It indeed requires less skill to compete with other armies due to our army composition being buffed, however much it pains me to say the above.

I wouldn't rate WoC as strongest army. Dark Elves still occupy that place. Their versatility and synergy is one of a kind amongst Warhammer armies.

Frankly
30-09-2010, 11:32
So, I got my third tournament coming up in the weekend and I'll be interested in how WoC go. So far they havent been far off winning the other 2 tournaments I'll been too.

@ Althwen, I think WoC have great synergy in some armylists(not like DE ofc) tzeencth units seem to bind armylist up with a mix of good protection and their magic can really bring lists together.

Storak
30-09-2010, 15:46
. I'd say top 3 in 8th so far, based off of what I've seen, heard, and read, would be Lizards, Empire/OnG hordes, and Dwarfs. Skaven and WOC come in close 4th in my opinion. I have yet to lose to a WOC army, with Lizards and Dwarfs, and I've faced the cheese lists. Then again, maybe I just have anti-WOC army builds.

i strongly disagree.

WOc does multiple things simply better than my O&G army does.

marauders are significantly better than orcs. better combat performance, better options.

WOC ranged damage (magic and shooting comoined9 also is better and especially more dangerous than the O&G one. (at least unless you go full gunline, which i don t think is a strong O&G army)

WOC still has working cavalry. just plain out better than the O&G one.

and warriors are just evil. (and core)

SiNNiX
30-09-2010, 20:39
i strongly disagree.

WOc does multiple things simply better than my O&G army does.

marauders are significantly better than orcs. better combat performance, better options.

WOC ranged damage (magic and shooting comoined9 also is better and especially more dangerous than the O&G one. (at least unless you go full gunline, which i don t think is a strong O&G army)

WOC still has working cavalry. just plain out better than the O&G one.

and warriors are just evil. (and core)

An O&G army can field 6 stone throwers and still have plenty of huge 25+ units and everything else in the army. I'll have to PM you my bro's nearly undefeated O&G list when I get home from classes. It's pretty unorthodox and sick.

goodz
01-10-2010, 23:16
Warriors just rock, and 3+ ward save on your wizard? yay...

<3 my warriors although sometimes it is a bit bland.. my friend used my warriors against my woodelves not to long ago, and I had essentially no chance! unit of warriors hits unit of elves, elves are killed before they can run! :(

I still like a unit of knights, 2 even in a 3000 point game...

TheKingInYellow
03-10-2010, 02:37
I know what you mean by 'bland' but then I decided to start doing mono-mark armies, and forcing myself to start trying less optimal things. A mono-Nurgle army runs way differently than mono-Tzeentch for instance. Got rid of that 'bored' feeling really quick :)

pauduro
03-10-2010, 05:28
Come on an OTHER tier topic arent like 1927391 allready active?? with the sameeeeee thing over an over :eyebrows:

Hashulaman
03-10-2010, 09:53
Well you would think that you point them in a direction and watch the mess. Chaos Warriors are pretty much agreed to be the best Core choice in 8th, and in soem instances 7th as well. They are walking tanks, not in much trouble till something S5 or graters hit them, the marks you pick is based on your play style, Marauders are perhaps the best horde chocie(some would say short of skaven) for cost effectiveness, flails or Great Weapons and MoK or Shields and MoT and you have the ultimate hammer or the ulitmate tarpit. Warriors are pretty much a hammer or anvil so finding a good marauder setup is arguable.

WoC specials are great choices, Knights are one of the best clavary chocies in the game if you can get the charge without loosing too many models, Chosen are very nasty and make great bunkers/anchors. Trolls with Throgg are also very good. \

Rare is good as well, Hellcannon is our only shooting short of the horsemen but I'm not into fast cav, Giant and Shaggoth are meh, same for Spawn. Then you got the Warshrine, one of my favorite units. If you roll well a Horde of Tzeentch Marauders can have a 3++ ward, or GW Khorne Marauder Horde a 4++ Ward and can survive the beating they can take before they bring the pain.

This is my view on what makes the WoC great.