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NixonAsADaemonPrince
30-09-2010, 14:47
I've played a few games with the last list I posted on here, and I've made a few alterations which seem to be working quite well, just wanted some thoughts and critique on it please:

2000pt WoC Force

Sorcerer Lord Lvl4 with Lore of Shadow, Talisman of Preservation and Charmed Shield: 320pts

Exalted Hero with Mark of Tzeentch, Halberd, Dragon Helm, Opal Amulet (worked it out, he has exactly the same odds of surviving if this is replaced by the Talisman of Protection) and Battle Standard: 174pts

15 Chaos Warriors with Mark of Khorne, Halberds, Shields, Standard Bearer and Musician: 303pts

29 Marauders with Mark of Khorne, Great Weapons and Full Command: 195pts (Sorcerer Lord goes here, thus the champion)

29 Marauders with Mark of Khorne, Great Weapons, Standard Bearer and Musician: 187pts (BSB goes here, thus no champion, needed to save the points)

6 Chaos Knights with Mark of Nurgle, Standard Bearer and Banner of Rage: 325pts

6 Chaos Knights with Mark of Khorne and Standard Bearer: 290pts

Hellcannon: 205pts

Total: 1999pts

I know it's all a bit bare bones, but I was trying to squeeze as much in as possible, and I don't like to run my knights below six strong (and I really like my knights, they are real game winners).

Cheers for reading.

Azshara
30-09-2010, 19:49
This should work well even if it's not over powerful the only thing that could say is that shadow isn't such a goood lore for your army, overhaul you have strengh 5 most of the time in combat, high CS and I (well against non elf). So you wanna lower their S since you have low T with your marauder?

No death would be a better choice with the -3ld spell you are more likely to dreak unit even with steadfast on your charge with your knights (plus fear test) and you can snipe character (bsb) or wizard out. And again the -3ld spell + hell canon = -4ld panic test.

AMWOOD co
30-09-2010, 20:44
I have to ask, what is it you are trying to achieve using Shadow magic? Reducing your foe's stats seems okay, but its kind of overkill, and you don't really need the mindrazor. Wouldn't it be more productive to blast away at any unit threatening your knights? Fire or heavens would be my choice. Why shadow?

GodlessM
30-09-2010, 22:56
This don't should work well even if it's not over powerful the only thing that could say is that shadow isn't such a goood lore for your army, overhaul you have strengh 5 most of the time in combat, high CS and I (well against non elf). So you wanna lower their S since you have low T with your marauder?

No death would be a better choice with the -3ld spell you are more likely to dreak unit even with steadfast on your charge with your knights (plus fear test) and you can snipe character (bsb) or wizard out. And again the -3ld spell + hell canon = -4ld panic test.

I'd back the decision for Death also.

Am curious about the lack of throw away units/screens in the army. Don't think I've ever seen a Chaos army without at least 2x5 Hounds.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
01-10-2010, 00:09
I'd back the decision for Death also.

Am curious about the lack of throw away units/screens in the army. Don't think I've ever seen a Chaos army without at least 2x5 Hounds.

Fair enough, I must admit I have been enjoying using Shadow, the signature spell is very good, reducing S or T is very good in many situations (S4 T4 doomwheels aren't much of a problem for my knights), pendulum and pit are good when paired with Miasma, and mindrazor is just always good, ok S5 is very nice but S8 is definitely better. That's what I have found anyway.

I will definitely try out Death, that was my other possibility anyway, and it would be nice to have something to take out characters easily, and soulblight has a similar effect to the Shadow spells. Obviously the lore attribute is just better. Doom and Purple Sun are of course very good as well.

Not sure about the hounds, they always just seemed to get in the way for me, especially as baiting and redirection aren't quite as user friendly as they once were (and rerollable ld8 for frenzy is quite acceptable). I'm probably just not using them right though.

So cheers for the advice, I've got a game this Saturday and I'll try out Death.

On a side note, did you get lost Godless, I thought you only dealt in rumours? ;)

Gaargod
01-10-2010, 01:14
I'd agree with hounds being very meh in this edition. Most units an opponent cares about will have a musician for swift reform, so at the very best your hounds are simply delaying an opponent. Which is a possible tactic, but at 30pts a pop (and needing multiple units for backups)...

Time of Madness
01-10-2010, 03:05
Hounds are best used for delaying deployment. Chaos armies generally have less units then opponents so a couple of units of 30pt hounds can help control the deployment phase.

Your exalted bsb has a weird build. Why not give him the talisman of endurance for a 4+ ward save all the time? Then you'd still have 20pts left for something else. Give him the sword of might and a shield for a 3+ save followed by a 4+ ward.

Knights are not that great this edition. They are still tough as the 2+ save is nice. But for the points chariots/shrines are better.

I think your unit of 15 warriors is to small. This edition is all about large units as there is no such thing has half victory points anymore.
Time of MAdness

NixonAsADaemonPrince
01-10-2010, 10:36
Hounds are best used for delaying deployment. Chaos armies generally have less units then opponents so a couple of units of 30pt hounds can help control the deployment phase.

Your exalted bsb has a weird build. Why not give him the talisman of endurance for a 4+ ward save all the time? Then you'd still have 20pts left for something else. Give him the sword of might and a shield for a 3+ save followed by a 4+ ward.

Knights are not that great this edition. They are still tough as the 2+ save is nice. But for the points chariots/shrines are better.

I think your unit of 15 warriors is to small. This edition is all about large units as there is no such thing has half victory points anymore.
Time of MAdness

I know what you mean about deployment, but as my army is already getting on for 4' wide and thus taking up over half the board, so any more units will put a bit of a stretch on deployment possibilities when you factor in terrain. I suppose I just see hounds the same way as Garrgod.

That build for the BSB ends up at 21pts more the my current one, so doesn't really work in my setup.

I'm just going to have to plain disagree there. Though they aren't as amazing as they were last edition, they still deliver a lot of high S attacks on a very durable and pretty fast platform. Though warshrines are more survivable they don't have nearly as much kill power and they are far slower, and chariots are slower and only have really good damage output on the charge, and with steadfast I need my units to be able to grind.

I will agree with you on the warriors being too small, but I just can't think of where to find the points, as everything is at the bare minimum as it is unfortunately.

Cheers again, keep the critique coming please.

babyberg31
01-10-2010, 15:46
Knights are not that great this edition. They are still tough as the 2+ save is nice. But for the points chariots/shrines are better.


Just a quick note here, Knights are not 2+ armour save, they have 1+... Might not change thing a lot, but St4 is doing nothing against them... Well... their armour i mean :shifty:

And about shrine being better, I'll have to disagree. You see, you might have a tough chariot like thing giving boost to your troop... But it doesn't charge as far, does not pack all the punch a chaos knight have and most of the time, with and average roll of 7, (a roll you have 1\6 of the time), I find it near useless. Tunderstomp would had been awesome, but life is life :cries:

And about chariot, well, I don't love them enough to play them, so I'll just have to believe you.

Other than this, I second you on your thoughts, mooooare chaos warriors, moooooooooare!!