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my_name_is_tudor
08-03-2006, 23:42
I've been reading the new 'dex, and I'd just like to bring up a few ideas for general discussion.

Firstly: The paradox of duality.

The paradox of duality is the staff-weapon that Aun'va carries/wields. It is said to contain an artefact of immense power, that can only be wielded by an ethereal. The power imbues Aun'vas bodyguards with strength and toughness. What could this artefact be? A hint at the true depth of an ethereal's powers?

2. The continued reference to the possible translation of 'Aun' as 'Celestial'. We all refer to the auns as ethereals, so why continue to pose the alternate translation, especially when it carries such different conotations. Celestial implies that they are from the stars - could this be telling us something?

3. Puretide's 3 'ways'. There are plenty of references to puretides 3 methods, that should be put into action as one, in balance. And that O'shovah and O'shassera both concentrate on one of. But what are they? Farsight and Shadowsun both seem quite aggressive - so it can't just be aggresiveness that O'shovah is focussing on, as it is said that O'shassera is the opposite of him in that respect.

Also, what is the third way?

4. The Tau language is said to be highly complex, beyond the translation of most, and beyond the learning capacity of even more. This (I think) is suggested also in their letter forms. In natural writing, the thick lines would be placed via brush pressure, reflecting the subtelties of the language, and the way a tiny degree of stress one way, can alter meaning entirely. (No question here, just an observation..)

5.Vespid.. is vespid the plural of vespid, or is it vespids? The codex uses both..

6. The Perdus Rift anomaly. I can see this being the focus of a big campaign at some point in the future - a major Tau v Chaos offensive. It seems a nice way of introducing the Tau wholesale to Chaos.

7. Where is o'shassera from? I can't find any mention of her sept..

8. It is mentioned that the Kroot hire themselves out to other races as mercernaries - this we already knew. But it also says that the Kroot, as a whole, hide this information from the Tau Empire. Not that some dissident Kroot are mercernaries, that the entire Kroot race could in theory be mercernaries, and that they as a whole, keep it hush hush. Kroot treachery?

--- I am also planning an in-depth look into what we know of the tau language, based on variant meanings of similar vowel colelctions, etc etc, as I'm quite interested in looking into the possible complexities of this language, and creating some sort of fan-fic guide. So keep a look out for that in the future, if you're interested.

Anyway, just rose these points to start some discussion of the new 'dex other than 'They're teh evil mind controllers now!!'.

Khaine's Messenger
09-03-2006, 00:21
The paradox of duality is the staff-weapon that Aun'va carries/wields. It is said to contain an artefact of immense power, that can only be wielded by an ethereal. The power imbues Aun'vas bodyguards with strength and toughness. What could this artefact be? A hint at the true depth of an ethereal's powers?

It could just be a gene-coded weapon. The Imperium has access to such devices, so I would not be surprised if the Tau could duplicate the concept. As to its functional properties...well there's a thing....


Celestial implies that they are from the stars - could this be telling us something?

Celestial implies the Tau think highly of them. While this is a fictional universe and as such you can describe things literally where in reality calling someone a Sun God will get rolled eyes, I'm not quite ready to read that much into it. I will give them props for it, however, as Celestial sounds like a better honorific than Ethereal (while Ethereal conjures images of "the place between worlds," which goes nicely with "the caste outside the castes," you have to really stretch it because most RPG fanatics will probably go "ETHEREAL PLANE!").


Puretide's 3 'ways'.

'Twould be amusing if they were something like "Know thy enemy. Know thyself. Know thy purpose." O'Shovah knows his enemy so well he became too much like it. O'Shaserra knows her purpose so well she is almost like a weapon herself. Do any Tau know themselves? I doubt that's it. But...just a thought.


The Tau language is said to be highly complex, beyond the translation of most, and beyond the learning capacity of even more.

*brain melts* While it's true that certain languages are incomprehensable (due to phonemes/signals one learns to distinguish or ignore), I'm quite bored with the idea of alien languages being "highly complex" and "beyond translation to most."


5.Vespid.. is vespid the plural of vespid, or is it vespids? The codex uses both.

Probably either. Welcome to English: the language where misused grammar and spelling become legitimate if they're used long and often enough. ;)


6. The Perdus Rift anomaly. I can see this being the focus of a big campaign at some point in the future - a major Tau v Chaos offensive. It seems a nice way of introducing the Tau wholesale to Chaos.

Indeed. But I still want to know whether or not the Tau are putting research into "paranormal activities"...rather than them just saying "Oh, that warp rift? Don't go over there."


8. It is mentioned that the Kroot hire themselves out to other races as mercernaries - this we already knew. But it also says that the Kroot, as a whole, hide this information from the Tau Empire.

The only question I have is....how? It's been a while now.


Kroot treachery?

Unlikely. More likely, the Kroot do it so they can continue to practice their culture and continue to drive their biological imperitives. Or, perhaps as Engel suggested, it may be a sort of treachery, as the Tau are likely keeping the Kroot in an anachronistic state in order to keep them as a subject/ally race. It's said that the Tau offered them tech but the Kroot refused...but perhaps there is something more sinister?

Zurai
09-03-2006, 00:48
Well, it's suggested in the old codex that the Tau have their suspicions about the activities of the Kroot, but choose to turn the other cheek about it because the Kroot do indeed supply the Tau Empire with many loyal troops, and because if nothing else the merc kroots can be used as roundabout explorers.

Mr_middle_way
09-03-2006, 01:22
Kroot evolution is based off their food source. Without new Genetics a race will stagnate ( a fate many of the species on our planet are heading too) and loose its viability, turning into something akin to hounds and Ox.

They travel the stars to gain these new genetics against the treaty signed by Prok which prohibits them working for others simply because if they don't, their entire race will die off.

El_Machinae
09-03-2006, 02:52
Well, their race will only die off if something changes in their environment. They could very easily evolve away from intelligence, if good enough 'counter-genes' are found too.

But 'expand and adapt' is pretty well the motto of evolution.

Instigation
09-03-2006, 07:10
Puretide's 3 'ways'.

Well isnt the 3 ways something to do with their methods of war covered in the previous 'dex. Like "kuo'yong", "mon'tau" and dont know about the third.

But this is illustrated in farsight and shadowsun with farsight been a battlesuited while shadowsun been stealth-suited. So farsight probably falls under the "kuo'yong" category while shadowsun is all about the "mon'tau".
Sorry dont have my codex on me at the moment so dont remember how to spell the methods.


Kroot treachery?

It's not treachery, the kroot have done this before and continue to do this now even though they are allies of the Tau empire. They tau dont like this practice but turn a blind eye to it. But then the tau also dont like they;re cannabalism habits and hope that prolonged contact with the tau will dissuade them, when infact it is this very thing that makes the kroot strong.

It is inevitable ofcourse that this house of cards is going to come tumbling down. Alien races will have "alien" prerogatives so the Tau empire is doomed to failure sooner or later, most likely destroyed from within as the benefits of cross-species alliances become outwieghted by alien-specific needs/ambitions.

my_name_is_tudor
09-03-2006, 08:39
I am currently building a campaign/set of stories/fiction around the idea of an Imperial world caught near the Perdus Rift, and the Tau going there to use it as a petris dish, to 'observe' these trans-dimensional oddities. It seems likely to me that they would be doing experiments and the like. It seems that in the fluff, GW are tending to almost forget about the other 3 castes. Why is it that Aun'va declared Shadowsun the hero of the firecast, and yet there are now pilot heroes, worker heroes, or negotiator heroes - I am sure there are a lot of good candidates out there. It seems that while the other castes are viewed as just cogs in the machine, the firecaste are part of the command, even when GW makes it clear that the firecaste has been viewed with a lot of distrust since Farsight.

We hear about fleets being lead by firecaste commanders.. Why?
We hear of things being designed based on firecaste recommendations.. Why?
And the only thing we ever hear about Watercaste is their role in the war.. surely spies and the like would be fire caste.

And, before someone argues it - I don't think this is because the firecaste are really more important than the others, I just think its narrow fluff writing on the part of GW. Why is it ok for the firecaste to have legendary individuals, and the ethereal caste, but everything the other castes do is presumed to be faceless. We could at least hear about the revolutionary science behind the XV22, and the Fio that came up with it.. stuff like that.

--The gene coded weapon sounds interesting, but why would the auns keep its true function cloaked under the mystery of 'an ancient artefact'? Why make it all magicky? (I think it says ancient..)
--I'm all for complex languages myself, English is probably the most connation-filled language out there, due to its creation, and I quite like the idea of a language where entire meanings can be placed on those connotations.
--The thyself, thy enemy, and thy cause is an interesting idea.. might be it, it does make a certain sense.

Xisor
09-03-2006, 12:38
In answer to your final questions, it's probably because the Castes fall under the realms of different game systems.

EDIT: To clarify: Coz 40k only focuses on the Firecaste. It'd be a waste to do the rest in a book primarily concerned with the Fire Caste. Think of the codex as a Fire Caste Sourcebook.

40k Only allows 'useful' focus on the Firecaste. Firecaste are known to 'lead' for Battles and things(such as controlling and training ships gunners etc), but the Kor still command the fleet. In BFG the Kor are the legendary ones. In Inquisitor it's far more likely that the Por will be used because, well, the Shas aren't especially known for theire special ops, certainly not when a Por can do it better(Better to talk your way out of a dangerous situation than Space Marine it out).

I also think Ethereals arew transcendental of all games systems. Just 'coz. The Fio are the ones I feel sorry for.

The Shas can recommend things to be developed(like "hey, we could use a new uber-gun, got anything?"), they can 'lead' in space battles, they could be bodyguards and 'heavies' for a diplomat or spy, but in each case the Fio will do the research, they'll make the big break throughs, the Kor will be the ones 'primarily' controlling the battle, and the Por will be that spy.

Xisor

my_name_is_tudor
09-03-2006, 12:46
It just seems that they are portrayed as almost subservient. I'd like to hear about the Fio behind certain technologies, just as we know about Land whatshisname who found the Land Raider and Land Speeder.

I get where you are coming from, but codexes aren't always totally about the military side of things, we do hear about famous Inquisitors all the time - Inquisitors that have not neccessarily ever been in combat.

I'd quite like to see a quartet of Third Phase 'heroes'. The commander in charge of the armies, the admiral in control of the fleets, the scientist leading the continued research into the new foes, and the negotiators who (according to the codex, if I am reading it right) have actually been responsible for taking more worlds than Shadowsun has.

Goodness knows we hear about the Imperial parrallels to these roles often enough.

The Mighty Gnoblar
09-03-2006, 13:41
I agree with you and that one, though the Fio are the lifesblood of the Empire in my opinion and the development of better stealthsuits could have let GW give us an insight into this caste by detailing its development.

as to the other points:

1: Not a clue about the staff will have to wait till the codex is released to get a better insight

2: I pefer the term Celestials as I think Ethereal doesnt quite fit with the names of the other castes (Fire,Earth,Water,Air and Ethereal?), Celestials conatations with the heavens seems to fit better with the elemental names.

3: The 3 ways yet another thing I'll have to wait to get my hands on the dex to get a better look, though I find it instresting that the students are dedicated to following one path rather then using all 3 as one

4. Hmm I think here they're tying into the old belief that Japanese was impossible to learn for outsiders (it was called the devils language i think). I always would have thought that the Tau language would be simple so easier for the subdued races to learn so it would be easier to get the Tau culture to overtake their natural ones.

5. I use Vespids

6. Tau probing a warp rift hmm, sounds like a pandora's box just waiting to be opened

7. another "will have to wait for dex" answer

8. I agree with the others on this point that its for the survival of their race rather then treachery, the refusal of tech I think its because it would detract from their search for stronger genetics, why look for genes that make you faster and stronger when you can use a battlesuit

Xisor
09-03-2006, 15:11
Regarding the 3PE heroes of other castes, I'll let you in on a secret:

Kor'o Xis'or *did* lead a major fleet battling a huge portion of times during the Eye of Terror Campaign. In fact, unless I'm totally mistaken, the majority of battles that were publicly announced for the Tau Fleet during EoT were by me. And, I think it's fair to say 'hero' could be involved: I haven't lost a game with the Tau since(excluding when I play against myself).

I think it'd be unfair not to see him. However, that's by the by. My intent for the coming months is that once we've finished thrashing out the fan-CPF list(hopefully official, but let's not be too hopeful), I intend to look at a 3rd Phase Expansion Fleet list. Idea:

Led by a single Custodian 'tops', Explorers are restricted, Merchants an Emissaries typically become more like transports and heavily auxilliary forces, with the bulk of the fighting coming from the corner of the Heroes, Protectors, Defenders, Castellans and Wardens.

It'd be a highly regimented force, but with the total intent of expansion. It'd be a bit more expensive due to all the personel involved in the expansion, and I'm willing to suggest that there are compulsary transports with fleets that if the enemy 'take them out', the Tau loose added VPs as they loose capacity to continue the expansion.

As for the Fio, I'd love to hear a bit more about them, but that looks to be reigned to fragmented background text. For now.

I tend to pick my Sept as Bork'an though...

Xisor

Khaine's Messenger
09-03-2006, 15:24
--The gene coded weapon sounds interesting, but why would the auns keep its true function cloaked under the mystery of 'an ancient artefact'? Why make it all magicky? (I think it says ancient..)

To give the whole race a sense of legitimacy, heritage, power, firm anchorage, and certainty...held fast in the knowledge that they are not alone in their righteous quest. It's a symbol in which the Aun can vest part of their authority, and a physical manifestation of the long and impressive history (*cough* relatively speaking, of course) of the ideal towards which all Tau strive. The fact that it exists in fact as well as in lore makes it even more impressive. I mean...all your standard "ancient artefact" spiel*. That it also has some bizarre effect that lends it some really spooky powers...icing on the *******' cake. Are those powers really supernatural, though? Just when you think GW's taken the "super" out of the "supernatural" with Xenology, you get something like this....

*Naturally, this seems confusing in the context of a supposedly progressive, forward-reaching group like the Tau, who seem like the last group that would have such relics, much less use them while leaving them in full-spooky mode. But since we're not told much about it....hmmph. I eagerly await my copy of the codex....

my_name_is_tudor
09-03-2006, 16:01
Aye, well, that's what you're led to assume.

To quote the codex on it:

Aun'Va bears a ceremonial staff, within which is housed an artefact of incalculable power - power only an Ethereal can wield. The Paradox of Duality grants....blah blah blah rules

so no solid info whatsoever.

Sybaronde
09-03-2006, 16:36
Firstly: The paradox of duality.

The paradox of duality is the staff-weapon that Aun'va carries/wields. It is said to contain an artefact of immense power, that can only be wielded by an ethereal. The power imbues Aun'vas bodyguards with strength and toughness. What could this artefact be? A hint at the true depth of an ethereal's powers?

2. The continued reference to the possible translation of 'Aun' as 'Celestial'. We all refer to the auns as ethereals, so why continue to pose the alternate translation, especially when it carries such different conotations. Celestial implies that they are from the stars - could this be telling us something?

8. It is mentioned that the Kroot hire themselves out to other races as mercernaries - this we already knew. But it also says that the Kroot, as a whole, hide this information from the Tau Empire. Not that some dissident Kroot are mercernaries, that the entire Kroot race could in theory be mercernaries, and that they as a whole, keep it hush hush. Kroot treachery?


1: I think it more as a reference to the political balance to the Ethereals. Give an item of extreme power to a Fire Warrior, and he'd use it for destruction. Give it to an Ethereal, and he'd use it for the Greater Good. Something along those lines. I doubt it has an explicite sense.

2: I think this is just a case of multiple meaning. Just as rock can refer to a stone or a planet in English.

8: I think I came across some piece in the fluff where it is stated that the Tau Empire respect the mercenary nature of the Kroot society and respect it in one way, as it somehow reflects part of the Greater Good or a merit towards that. I'll check it up again.

my_name_is_tudor
09-03-2006, 16:50
Well, the paradox of duality does confer very real bonuses to Aun'va's bodyguard, T and S 5 in fact, so it must be more than just metaphorical.

And the codex also states quite explicitly that the Kroot keep knowledge of their mercenary nature from the Tau.

imrhati
09-03-2006, 22:00
Aun'va's staff is so powerful becuase he used it to kill Aun'xar an ancient hero who origanally inspired O'Shavoh. When he killed Aun'xar a warp implosion occured and left a small amount of warp taint on the staff (not enough to corrupt him but enough to make it supernaturally powerful).

None of this is official but it is in my novel which will eventually be sumitted to BL
-

Warden
09-03-2006, 22:26
The Tau are aware that the Kroot Continue to fight for other races, this i dont view as treachery more as a basic instinct to acquire new genes, it was mentioned in a short story in The 1st codex or a WD article that they found it alarming that the kroot continued there Merc trends much as they continue cannibalism but the view it as something that they the Tau can ween them off for the greater good iirc.

Asi the Red
09-03-2006, 22:39
Hey ya'.

Sorry if this is a bit OT, but Tau messing around with a Warp Rift reminds me of playing a Call of Cthulu game with rookies... nothing could prepare them for what they're in for...

Varanus
09-03-2006, 23:02
I was under the impression that they were called "Ethereals" because although they were at the center of Tau society, they were also above it, some could say metaphysically outside of it. Though "Celestial" is more in keeping with the Elements theme.

The Orange
09-03-2006, 23:11
3. Puretide's 3 'ways'. There are plenty of references to puretides 3 methods, that should be put into action as one, in balance. And that O'shovah and O'shassera both concentrate on one of. But what are they? Farsight and Shadowsun both seem quite aggressive - so it can't just be aggresiveness that O'shovah is focussing on, as it is said that O'shassera is the opposite of him in that respect.

Farsight learned to use the battlefield terrain against his enemies, i.e. the Arkunasha Victories.
I don't have a clue what the other 2 methods are.


5.Vespid.. is vespid the plural of vespid, or is it vespids? The codex uses both..

Arn't they supposed to be called stingwings, from the planet Vespid?


6. The Perdus Rift anomaly. I can see this being the focus of a big campaign at some point in the future - a major Tau v Chaos offensive. It seems a nice way of introducing the Tau wholesale to Chaos.

Isnt that just a big empty space?


7. Where is o'shassera from? I can't find any mention of her sept..
I recolect hearing that o'shassera was a classmate of O'shovah, there were after all taught by the same guy, Puretide.



--- I am also planning an in-depth look into what we know of the tau language, based on variant meanings of similar vowel colelctions, etc etc, as I'm quite interested in looking into the possible complexities of this language, and creating some sort of fan-fic guide. So keep a look out for that in the future, if you're interested.
Sounds interesting, but ultimately a waste of time IMO. It was all made up buy people at GW, for all we know it could have been a monkey at a typewriter :p . So don't take the whole language thing to seriously. GW has been known to be inconsistent on simpler issues, such as rules :eyebrows: .

Instigation
10-03-2006, 04:51
Maybe you missed it in my previous post but arent Puretides 3 ways something about the Kauyon and Mont'ka?

Farsight was a practitioner of the Kauyon way of war as judged if by nothing else than the fact that he is Crisis Suited, while Shadowsun is a practitioner of the Mont'Ka as illustrated by the fact that she wears a stealth suit. I know that this is a superficial way of looking at it but the fluff for both of the respectively supports this as well (can;'t quote because I dont have the codex).

As for the 3rd method well I remember that in the old codex in the Tau Art of War section it was mentioned that there was a strategy - a combination of the two above perhaps - that marked a true master. Again i cant quote because I dont have the codex on me but someone can look up ;)

Sir Charles
10-03-2006, 04:53
Which is which again, one is a bait and attack and whaat was the other again?

The Orange
10-03-2006, 05:13
Maybe you missed it in my previous post but arent Puretides 3 ways something about the Kauyon and Mont'ka?
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/tau/catalog/oshovah.htm

"Farsight's training under the legendary Commander Puretide had taught him to use the terrain against the foe"


Which is which again, one is a bait and attack and whaat was the other again?
Kauyon: Patient Hunter
Mont'ka: Killing Blow

Sybaronde
10-03-2006, 10:04
Well, the paradox of duality does confer very real bonuses to Aun'va's bodyguard, T and S 5 in fact, so it must be more than just metaphorical.

Well, I believe the sentence after the dash refers to the "incalculable power" as being a kind of power only Ethereals could wield. I think they put it in there to point out why an ageing space pope is wearing it and not a Fire Caste Commander (who undoubtably could've benefited more of it and more often as well). Because obviously, from a gamer's perspective, it would've been way better in the hands of Shadowsun (toughness boost ahoy?).

my_name_is_tudor
10-03-2006, 12:14
Farsight learned to use the battlefield terrain against his enemies, i.e. the Arkunasha Victories.
I don't have a clue what the other 2 methods are.

Perhaps, but this doesn't seem very revolutionary to me - any Tau commander not using terrain against the enemy is a dead tau commander.


Arn't they supposed to be called stingwings, from the planet Vespid?

Perhaps, but they are referred to many times as "Vespid" and "Vespids" in the codex.


Isnt that just a big empty space?

Nope, it is (according to the codex) a large area of warp disturbance, where the laws of physics are stretched to their limits, and it also acts as a gateway for all manner of unknown entities - essentially, its a warp storm, the Tau just don't know how to say it yet. The Damocles Gulf is a big empty space.


I recolect hearing that o'shassera was a classmate of O'shovah, there were after all taught by the same guy, Puretide.

Still doesn't answer where she's from though.. Any commander can teach any other commander.


Sounds interesting, but ultimately a waste of time IMO. It was all made up buy people at GW, for all we know it could have been a monkey at a typewriter :p . So don't take the whole language thing to seriously. GW has been known to be inconsistent on simpler issues, such as rules :eyebrows: .

What you see as a waste of time, I see as highly interesting. Being as I am, a language student.

Khaine's Messenger
10-03-2006, 16:45
Still doesn't answer where she's from though.. Any commander can teach any other commander.

Aaargh...is Shadowsun simply following an old set of teachings, or is Puretide still around to teach new Tau? I imagine if O'Shovah could prolong his life (and perhaps Aun'va...) then Tau who have ascended to the T'au Shas'ar'tol could still be alive after two hundred years. But O'Shovah left the Empire over two hundred years before the Third Phase Expansion began; surely Shadowsun isn't almost that old herself?

setekhite
10-03-2006, 19:49
8. It is mentioned that the Kroot hire themselves out to other races as mercernaries - this we already knew. But it also says that the Kroot, as a whole, hide this information from the Tau Empire. Not that some dissident Kroot are mercernaries, that the entire Kroot race could in theory be mercernaries, and that they as a whole, keep it hush hush. Kroot treachery?


Well, this is nothing new. To quote the Kroot Mercenary list:

"To collect as wide a range of characteristics as possible, they secretly despatch entire armies of mercenaries to fight alongside other races in order to expose themselves to creatures and environments not found in Tau space."

Treachery? Perhaps. But there are no examples in published material of Kroot taking arms against the Tau, so they aren't actively betraying the Empire so much as not supporting it wholeheartedly. Looking at the map, Kroot territory is on the fringes of the Tau empire and the far side of the Perdus rift, so the mercenary Warspheres can come and go in peace.

In some of the Inquisitor material, it's mentioned that the Tau do occasionally make efforts to 're-integrate' mercenary Kroot into the Empire. Otherwise, the mercs are tolerated because they're not a threat to the Empire, and the Kor'Vattra has quite enough on its plate without hunting down massive, upgunned mercenary Warspheres.

Sandlemad
10-03-2006, 21:42
Perhaps, but they are referred to many times as "Vespid" and "Vespids" in the codex.

'Stingwings' could be fire caste groundpounder slang for them. Like 'Carnivores' for the kroot.

I doubt Puretide is still alive. I mean O'Shovah is supposed to be ancient by tau standards, long beyond their normal lifespan. Shadowsun was Aun'Va's prodigy, not Puretide's. She follows his teachings, clearly but age-wise probably wasn't playground buddies with Farsight.

Come to think of it, how old is Aun'Va?

Delicious Soy
17-03-2006, 04:24
Aaargh...is Shadowsun simply following an old set of teachings, or is Puretide still around to teach new Tau? I imagine if O'Shovah could prolong his life (and perhaps Aun'va...) then Tau who have ascended to the T'au Shas'ar'tol could still be alive after two hundred years. But O'Shovah left the Empire over two hundred years before the Third Phase Expansion began; surely Shadowsun isn't almost that old herself?I think it says somewhere in the new codex that Puretide is dead. What I find stupid is that the average Tau life expectancy is 40, yet here we have Shadowsun and Farsight being alleged classmates (which would answer the previous question that Shadowsun is most likely from Vior'la). I'm still trying to rap my hed around that one, but it seems like they've just crowbarred an interesting idea (Shadowsun and Farsight as the figureheads of their respective expansions) and forgot details that would've been obvious from even the most basic perusal of the previous codex.

Gen_eV
17-03-2006, 06:04
As to the Vespid/Vespids thing, I haven't read the codex, but could it be the following:

One Vespid meets another, you then have two Vespids.
However, when referring to a race as a whole, they are referred to as the Vespid.

It 'feels' right to me somehow, that the Tau (as a race) interact with the Vespid, but when you have a few individuals, they are called a bunch/hive/squad of Vespids.

Sephiroth
17-03-2006, 15:09
Aaargh...is Shadowsun simply following an old set of teachings, or is Puretide still around to teach new Tau? I imagine if O'Shovah could prolong his life (and perhaps Aun'va...) then Tau who have ascended to the T'au Shas'ar'tol could still be alive after two hundred years. But O'Shovah left the Empire over two hundred years before the Third Phase Expansion began; surely Shadowsun isn't almost that old herself?

Puretide disappeared (presumed dead) sometime before Damocles.

However, he personally taught - in the flesh - both Farsight and Shadowsun... and since the 3rd Sphere Expansion is occuring at the same time as the 13th Black Crusade, she must be well over two hundred years old...

Mind you, Aun'Va has been around since almost the First Phase Expansion! :p :eyebrows:

my_name_is_tudor
18-03-2006, 12:39
Just for the sake of clarification, where abouts is it that it says Tau live for about 40 years? I'm not questioning this data, just asking for the source.

A neutral shade of black.
18-03-2006, 16:00
Aun'shi's entry, in the old codex. 40 Terran years is old for them, therefore 50 Terran years (= 60 Tau'cyr) is them dead.

Dakkagor
18-03-2006, 17:32
I think its more likely that shadowsun is a student of the puretide school of war, much like you can have schools of acting (brecht) running long after the inventor of the technique is dead. That would neatly explain the discrepancy in age.

. . .how much time dilation/distortion occurs when tau use their method of traversing the warp? If she had spent alot of time on ship, she could be feasibly older.

Mr_middle_way
18-03-2006, 19:04
If you are willing to ignore the fact both farsight and shadowsun are mentioned as being "pupils of Puretide" at the same time.

Its just another GW screw up...like Tau who would use base-8 math, having suits with 8's in. :D

The Judge
20-03-2006, 17:38
I'd love to hear about certain famous workers - in Soviet Russia they made up heroic workers who did more than their quota and won awards to inspire the rest of the workers.

Perhaps this idea does not really sit in the middle of a wargame.

Kjell
20-03-2006, 22:44
I would just like to point out that "Ethereals" does too fit in well with the rest of the castes. Ever heard of, ah, it was Aristoteles, wasn't it? The ether is the fifth element. It's what you get when fire, water, earth and air are in harmony with each other.