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View Full Version : Lizardmen vs. High Elves battlechronicler pics



zork rumpscratcha
01-10-2010, 17:16
www.warhammerbattlereport.blogspot.com

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Ambassador Tassadar had his orders from the High Command of Ulthuan. Rally allies under the banner of Eltharion to engage in a campaign against the dark forces clamoring to new atrocities in the East.

Having been born of a low house, rising only in the last millennium he received the odious challenge of extending an outstretched hand to the savages, the chittering skinks, silent saurus and other unmentionables in these stifling tropical jungles.

It chafed him to ask for help from unclad, unruly, primitive hut-dwellers. He could perceive their mud daubed housing compounds from the hill outside town. They had run into several skink scouts on their way to the nearest village of the lizardmen. They had offered tokens of peace and good will, baubles and trinkets as might dazzle the primitives, but which were of no good to him anymore. Of late he had parted with an old ruby dagger to a skink chameleon who had popped out of nowhere. The skink emissary had chattered madly and incomprehensibly so Tassadar hoped these humble folk would be easily swayed to their cause with whatever shiny bits the citizen soldiers had about their persons.

But Tassadar didn’t stoop to speak skink. And it never entered into his brain that a ruby dagger was tantamount to declaring genocide on an entire village. Suffice it to say, the lizardmen did not respond well.

Tassadar had his men arrayed in full regalia as they approached the excuse for a town. Armor shined and glinting in the sun, the high elves wanted to show these lizardmen that it would be an honor to fight beside high elven warriors of such prestige. But when the stegadons rumbled out of the town and reptilian warriors and beasts came at them from every angle the ambassador decided to give the order to get into defensive positions.

High elf army

Prince w/ barded elven steed and foe bane
Level 1 mage with dispel scroll (fire)
Level 2 mage (life)
Battle standard bearer noble
14 archers, standard and hawkeye
13 lothern sea guard w shields and full command
8 ellyrian reavers w bows
8 silver helms w shields and full command
14 swordmasters w full command
5 shadow warriors w shadow walker
2 bolt throwers

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Tassadar was a bit taken aback by the highly sophisticated magics enveloping both the lizardmen and the skinks and giant reptiles. The ancient slug creature that could only be mistaken for toadlike slann barely raised a languid arm and suddenly he sat atop a throne of vines, the skink/ krozigor cohort suddenly looked much more tough and imposing. A huge blue bubble of protection popped up around a whirring configuration of wood and stone set atop a ponderous armor-plated stegadon.

A great bow twanged and sent an armor piercing arrow toward the dragon princes just beside Tassadar. They had quickly diverted to the left flank. Luckily, the fletched spear thudded into soggy sawgrass in front of them.

On the right flank the elven ambassador watched with horror as his scouts were burnt to a crisp in their position in the forest. The two stalwart shadow warriors who were left took cover in the trees but held their position.

As he scanned the battlefield it was at this point that Tassadar realized… “I don’t think this is their version of a welcoming party. They’re probably not open to coming with us in our campaign.”

Lizardmen army
Slann, bsb, 2 disciplines of the ancients (+1 power dice for each cast, knows all spells in lore) life
Scar Veteran with great weapon, light armor, and 6+ ward save
Skink priest on ancient stegadon with engine of the gods (uranon's thunderbolt)
28 skinks with 3 kroxigor and full command
19 saurus warriors full command
8 cold one cavalry full command
1 stegadon
2 salamanders with extra handlers

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Sensing the weakness of the left flank Tassadar motioned to his kindred dragon prince to sound the horn call for reinforcements on the left. The Ellyrian reavers quickly responded under the hail of volley fire coming from the sea guard, archers, and eagle claws. Screams pierced the air from the pierced skinks.
Sparks formed and then fizzled at the fingertips of Aegis and Magus his faithful mages. Something powerful was hindering their usually forceful magics.

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Thankfully the clumsy stegadon in front of them rocked and wobbled the howdah atop it such that every shot it fired fell short of the dragon princes. "Just wait til it feels the wrath of the foe bane!" the ambassador sneered. Between the cold ones and the stegadon it looked as though the lizardmen were baiting a charge from the dragon princes. Well, they wouldn't fall for it. The accursed bubble remained over even more of the lizardmen savages as they quickly advanced on his line. Vines and roots reached out from the forest to grab at Aegis but he deftly maneuvered to escape them.
Through the trees he could see that the remaining shadow warriors had narrowly escaped an attempted charge by the putrescent smoking salamanders. He hoped they would distract the dangerous beasts from more necessary troops. They fired another volley of ash and arrow to bring down a lizard riding lizard and several of the heftier looking saurii. The reavers aligned on his right to help with the left flank.

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The silver helms reformed so as to leave themselves less vulnerable to the flammable spittle of the salamanders.
As the silver helms were reforming the skink cohort skittered across the battlefield as if on elven steeds. They seemed larger and tougher than any skinks he'd ever seen. Perhaps they had been assisted by the potent magics of that ponderous toad. The sea guard's arrows bounced on the now thick hides of these quick creatures. The Slann again wrought potent magics over and over such that Magus had to speak his last dispel scroll, defusing the dangerous magic.

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The reavers sallied forth to fill the cold ones full of fletched arrows but alas their armor proved to thick. The stegadons armor proved too tough as well as a giant bolt from the eagle claw merely got lodged into the beast's spiked frill. His citizen soldiers sent on a peace mission were not fairing so well in the center either. His sea guard broke under the wieght of the kroxigors great weapons carving a bloody swath in thier midst. Thankfully, the swordmasters came to their rescue and began slicing skinks by twos. Magus managed to flip a fireball into the saurus felling several more than the archers did with their volley. A bolt struck home on the ancient stegadon but failed to stop it.

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Before his very eyes, his entire regiment of reavers was torn down by spear and talon of the cold one cavalry. Though they had bravely overcome their fear and marshalled themselves to strike first the mounted sauri were more than their match. And now the stegadon was so close they could smell its jungle wildness through their dragon armor helms.

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This outrage must be stopped. The highborn of Ulthuan would not bear this insult. They came in peace with an offer of the honor to fight beside them in a campaign against evil and these brutes returned their generous offer with death and scorn. "Strike for the heart" he told his princes and they charged the bloated toad in the middle of the forest. But for all their boldness, training and bravery two princes got caught in the overhanging branches and were cast from their steeds. The prince struck for the heart of the priest plunging his sword deep into the toad's body, "How dare the priest attack when he'd been shown favor!" *favor?* the thought burst into his mind. The mage stared at Tassadar, unblinking with a blade sticking out of him, a wound that would have killed 3 mortal men. *You did not show us favor. You gave us the red dagger of death.* Again the thoughts appeared in his mind unbidden. It was the priest speaking into his mind. "That dagger was a token of peace!" He snarled. *not in our culture* stared the priest.

The lizardmen suddenly stopped fighting. And Tassadar sounded the horn himself to call for his elves to cease.

***
Thoughts after the game:
Don't hold back with units that were meant for close combat.
Be very cautious about sending cavalry into woods.
Try a higher caster instead of two little ones.
Use bigger units of infantry.
don't waste arrow shots at cavalry.

Questions:
Is the slann loremaster life build too beardy?
Are eagle claw bolt throwers potent enough for a gunline?

Tekomandor
04-10-2010, 00:31
That prince build isn't that good and your army list sucks. Not trying to be mean but MSU doesn't work in 8th

Killingspree
04-10-2010, 05:13
Teko I know your comment was meant as constructive criticism but using the word 'sucks' to describe someone's army build will make them shut down and become argumentative. While I agree that generally MSU is next to impossible to win with in 8th you could have just said that. With that said.
TWO POINTS:
First is that I absolutely love that you threw fluff into this entire report (start to finish) but perhaps you could do it where one paragraph is fluff and the next dumbs it down to facts? It would make it easier to read in this manner.
Secondly, I commend you for taking silver helms and Reavers to boot! While I don't particularly care for either unit, it's nice to see someone giving them some much needed love.

As for your questions: Personally, the slaan is a serious pay for what you get type model to me. I don't think it's beardy at all.
Potent enough for a gunline? Do you mean to make one or shoot at one? Because honestly, as a gunline they are very good but in this edition you might found yourself outclassed in the warmachien department.

Just my 2 cents.
K/S

Trains_Get_Robbed
04-10-2010, 14:43
Awesome post!!! True your "list" may be viewed as sub-optimal, however, it may be because of the models you are restricted to etc. . . You should try the Ellyrion banner on the D.Ps. It is a really cheap banner that does wonders for cav. not to mention that the only upgrade worth its weight is the S.B. :D

Also, just some thoughts, as you discovered, its VITAL that H.E have a Lvl 4 mage unless in a Allies game because S3 shooting doesn't do a lot, even with armies with little shooting most of the troops are resilient to the shooting anyway hence; L.M, WoC. Your best bet is to take roughly a (proxy if you can't) 2-3 solid blocks of troops in a 2,000 point game or less (25 up for me personally on LSG and Spears, and 20 and up for special).

Lastly, against armies like L.M and WoC, you can create a fire-base/gunline, but only really with RBT's. S3 shots with, LSG, Archers, won't do enough as the negate armor saves. However, if you take a Lvl 2 mage with Silver Wand and Reaver Bow (Shadow or H.e) he can really supplement the LSG shots and even though the 25 LSG or so, will only do 2 wounds agaisnt a T4 +4 A.S model, the S5 shooting will do two wounds in itself, and thus create another albeit with the mage, effective fire base to pair with 2 or 3 RBTs.

Keep up the good work!

Malorian
04-10-2010, 19:02
Thoughts after the game:
Don't hold back with units that were meant for close combat.
Be very cautious about sending cavalry into woods.
Try a higher caster instead of two little ones.
Use bigger units of infantry.
don't waste arrow shots at cavalry.

Questions:
Is the slann loremaster life build too beardy?
Are eagle claw bolt throwers potent enough for a gunline?

Pretty much agree with all the thoughts.

I know I've been running cav into trees more than in 8th but a bad set of dice can quickly make it a very bad idea. You really just have weigh the risks.

On the slann loremaster life question I'm still not sure... it does seem to fit in perfectly for lizardmen such that everyone uses it, however it doesn't seem overpowered. So more of a perfect fit rather than beardy I'd say.

And there are always times that you need a warmachine to stomp a monster from getting into combat.

GodlessM
05-10-2010, 01:39
Has anyone considered that the poster is a casual gamer only and doesn't care how good his list is so as long as he likes it?

Killingspree
05-10-2010, 02:14
Has anyone considered that the poster is a casual gamer only and doesn't care how good his list is so as long as he likes it?

This is why i commented on the post only and answered his questions. He didn't really ask about his army list but.... Normally in this forum criticism is the norm and appreciated. I dunno, personally I think the idea's given were really quite good and didn't 'tell' him to do anything at all. Although I agree that it sounds like this game was his first in a while or as you said is simply a casual gamer.

K/S

zork rumpscratcha
05-10-2010, 16:52
Criticism on the list is totally appreciated. I don't know what MSU stands for? Please someone help! I made both lists but to be honest I made the elf list before the new rules and didn't have time to update it. Also I hadn't played against high elf since 3rd edition so I just wanted to experience lots of different things. I was basically trying to use whatever models my brother had and I wanted to get as many figures on the board as possible so I didn't go very much for magic items. I was kind of averse to them, having overloaded on them in the past so there were practically none in these lists. That being said I'll use some magic items in the future.
My bro's got 24 swordmasters, 24 lsg and 20 archers, 15 spearmen (hoping to get some more from a friend soon) I'd really appreciate suggestions as to how to run these guys to greatest effect. (swordmasters in broader frontage? two units?)

I actually played as the lizardmen but posted from the perspective of the high elves for fluff's sake.

@killingspree: point taken on the fluff/facts breakdown. I'll try that next time. (and try to remember more salient details.)

@trains_get_robbed: point taken on the ellyrion banner I may try it. Regarding the reaver bow/silver wand built. That's exactly how I amended this army list after playing this game. Also I'm getting rid of the reavers and shadow warriors: they proved a little soft for march blocking. I dunno, maybe I'll submit my updated list for high elves in the appropriate forum.

igotafreezeray
06-10-2010, 22:53
This is a very exciting and well formulated post to read. Well done :D

Jetty Smurf
07-10-2010, 00:22
I really enjoy the style of this battle report. I really hope you do more of these in the future, was a VERY good read! :D

MSU stands for Multiple Small Units. It's not as effective in 8th as it was in 7th, as big blocks of infantry got a boost with the new rules. These days its better to take a couple less units, but make each one bigger.

The lizardmen list seems pretty solid. Not optimal, but solid, so that's fine. The high elf list in comparison just seems a bit soft. A level 4 is almost a must against a LM army these days. Bigger units of LSG/Spearmen (personal preference) is also a good idea. Anything else depends on your play style really.

Like I said earlier, I really enjoyed reading this report, and I hope you enjoyed your game, as that's what playing warhammer is all about. :D

zork rumpscratcha
07-10-2010, 03:36
Thanks Smurf for the definition and the encouragement.
I like the idea of bigger units as first and foremost I'm an orcs and goblins player.
I'd appreciate ideas on the lizard list as well. I know the skink horde isn't common but I wanted to do a horde and saurus horde just misses out on all their extra attacks because they only do one supporting attack instead of two.
That being said, I'm trying to get my hands on some more saurus this weekend. I don't have temple guard but I kind of don't like the points sink, limited movement, and danger of miscast death. That being said, I wouldn't mind having some, just in case.

Tekomandor
11-10-2010, 09:27
Sorry about any offence I may have caused from my comment and I do think it was a good battle report. However may I suggest you embed the pictures into the forum post in the futuer ( I look forward to another one)

Trains_Get_Robbed
11-10-2010, 18:47
s.w I tend not use unless as I delivery systwem for a prince with a bow. :)

Ellryion reavers aren't bad like s.w, but aren't as optimal as eagles which are cheaper, fly and have the almost ame amount of attacks and st. I use ellyrions against skaven and v.c and ogres mostly. Just cause I got too mnay cav modles lol.

zork rumpscratcha
12-10-2010, 14:24
@Tekomandor how do I embed the pics? I looked for a sticky on this subject but didn't find one.

themonad
15-10-2010, 23:39
awesome bat rep! love the story behind what happened in game!

russellmoo
18-10-2010, 03:42
The slann in a large unit of Temple guard plus flanking salamanders are what make the Lizardmen possibly the top tier army- I'd say it's overpowered, except that having a slann surrounded by a really tough bodyguard is how the lizards are designed to work- I mean what else would a lizard player run?

Part of what you experienced is the fact that the only army that can out magic High elves is Lizardmen-

Second, strategy wise- templates attacks = high elf death- Your first priority for high elves is to avoid or take out anything that uses templates- this is why most HE players run Great eagles, but you could feasibly accomplish the same task with your Ellyrian reavers (by task I mean warmachine hunting- or in this case salamander hunting)

Strategy point #2- you can run two low level casters as a HE player if one or both take drain magic (any magic user who now has to score 6 higher to get a spell off is not going to be very effective) or in combination with the fire mage cast drain magic first, to either raise the casting values, or get rid of your opponents dispel dice- with 2 High magic mages their role is mainly magic defense- if you want to actually do a lot of damage with magic you should take a lvl 4 and a lvl one or two-

Enjoyed the report.