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View Full Version : Anvil of Doom worth it?



SiNNiX
02-10-2010, 21:25
What do you guys think about the Anvil of Doom in 8th on a competitive level? I used it at first, but now I've dropped it and haven't seen too drastic of a change. The only rune I ever really use is Rune of Wrath & Ruin for the movement reduction. Are Rune of Wrath & Ruin, +1 DD and the protection it offers to the Runelord really worth 175 points that could go towards more infantry or another war machine?

Another question is how do you guys feel about using Ancient Power on every attempt? I never did this as I have always been too afraid of miscast to use Ancient Power, but I was thinking about it and... D3 units instead of just one and 2D6 hits instead of just D6 per unit is such a huge improvement, and slowing down 2 or even 3 units is so much better than slowing down just 1 unit. But is it worth the risk of miscast?

langolas
02-10-2010, 23:10
I have had great experiences using the Anvil. Having miners come on the board and then move into someones flanks is a nice thing. Or slowing down that cav from hitting you.

I've never used the big rune, but I don't field Thortek either.

The extra power dice can be quite useful, especially in 8th. I love the look on my opponents faces when I have more DD than they have PD.

YMMV though.

SiNNiX
03-10-2010, 08:48
I have had great experiences using the Anvil. Having miners come on the board and then move into someones flanks is a nice thing. Or slowing down that cav from hitting you.

I've never used the big rune, but I don't field Thortek either.

The extra power dice can be quite useful, especially in 8th. I love the look on my opponents faces when I have more DD than they have PD.

YMMV though.

Yeah, I love how I automatically get +4 DD just for having a Runelord w/ Anvil and MRune of Balance, and they get -1 PD. If I used Miners, I'd definitely use them that way.

Gotrek
03-10-2010, 12:59
i tested the anvil when 8th came arround with miners and all but since it blew up on 2 out of 3 games and one of those it was on the 1st turn i'm reconsidered and got more able bodied dwarfs wich are far more reliable. i never used ancient power either :P

Novrain
03-10-2010, 14:39
Given the new magic spells the anvil really does seem a very expensive rock.

It is outclassed by just about any lvl2 mage, even tho it cannot be dispelled, its effects are not !that! good. And often the runelord becomes the target of everything the opponent can throw at him.

It is marginally useful, but I would rather have those points spent on warriors.

Sandals
03-10-2010, 15:03
even tho it cannot be dispelled

this. this is what makes it good.

Rolo Ramone
03-10-2010, 17:41
I just fail to see why not take it. As a Bretonnia Player, the Anvil has been a pain in the a$$. Even dwarf warriors with great weapon will run like Usain Bolt. Not to mention the slow efect it have on enemy troops and the way the anvil can turn your Magic Phase into nothing more than hope for irrestible force.

Frankly
03-10-2010, 18:56
... The only rune I ever really use is Rune of Wrath & Ruin for the movement reduction. ....


Here's your problem.

I just ran it in a tournment and used it for charges with my miners or rangers to the flanks of my opponants units, this is where it'll make its points back in game play. The pressure you can put on your opponant with this simple combo is amazing.

Kirasu
03-10-2010, 19:32
Its awful vs any army that can force you to take an initiative test.. Reclassifying it as a warmachine was a devastating blow to its usefulness. In 'ard boyz whenever it was on the board it died to a shadow spell, skaven items or anything else that makes you take an I check.

dimetri1
03-10-2010, 20:50
What do you guys think about the Anvil of Doom in 8th on a competitive level? I used it at first, but now I've dropped it and haven't seen too drastic of a change. The only rune I ever really use is Rune of Wrath & Ruin for the movement reduction. Are Rune of Wrath & Ruin, +1 DD and the protection it offers to the Runelord really worth 175 points that could go towards more infantry or another war machine?

Another question is how do you guys feel about using Ancient Power on every attempt? I never did this as I have always been too afraid of miscast to use Ancient Power, but I was thinking about it and... D3 units instead of just one and 2D6 hits instead of just D6 per unit is such a huge improvement, and slowing down 2 or even 3 units is so much better than slowing down just 1 unit. But is it worth the risk of miscast?

The AoD for me is the Dwarf American Express Card.

mastrchief33
03-10-2010, 23:15
It's worth taking if you're playing gunline Dwarfs, but I would never use ancient power....ever.

langolas
03-10-2010, 23:30
It's worth taking if you're playing gunline Dwarfs, but I would never use ancient power....ever.

QFT. My dice are iffy in the best of games. Needing a 4+ (Unless using Thorek) is way too much of a gamble for me. In 6 games I have had it blown up only one time

dimetri1
03-10-2010, 23:46
It's worth taking if you're playing gunline Dwarfs, but I would never use ancient power....ever.

At 3000 pts I take Thorek and roll ancient.

SiNNiX
04-10-2010, 02:37
Its awful vs any army that can force you to take an initiative test.. Reclassifying it as a warmachine was a devastating blow to its usefulness. In 'ard boyz whenever it was on the board it died to a shadow spell, skaven items or anything else that makes you take an I check.

QFT. This is the one thing that's really having me reconsider it. However, my list is extremely magic defensive (+4 DD, -1 PD to opponent's pool, Spelleater saved for such spells), so maybe it's worth the risk. If they don't get off that Initiative-based spell, I'm eating it for dinner.

stuntyKing
04-10-2010, 03:27
I belive it's totally viable in 8th. Many people say it's a whole bunch of points just to get purple sunned or shadowed. But remember, bare it can be 315 points! That's not to many considering that same spell could easily destroy that many longbeards or hammeres worth in points, so really that point isn't totally valid, unless of course it's ur general, it witch case bugman or even a thane can easily take the place of. The moment spell is just loads of goodness, especially with the new charge ranges. I use it in games even as small as 2000 and isn't at all a point sink as long as it's bare bones. If the 3DD isn't enough for you,(witch it is for me, cause I like to keep my opponents using magic and generally the worst magic is IF anyways.) u can always take another runesmith to spread the points out.

WLBjork
05-10-2010, 20:22
It's worth taking if you're playing gunline Dwarfs, but I would never use ancient power....ever.

Here I differ. I never play gun-line anyway (well, except that one siege game). I find it over-priced in a balanced army, but the extra movement can be vicious in an aggressive pure melee force, especially for suddenly charging those cavalry that were too far away to be worth the risk at the start of the turn.

Malorian
05-10-2010, 20:26
I think a big part of the question is the size of the game.

I typically play 3K games and I find it to be a very worthy addition, and naturally the bigger you go the more it's worth it.


Ancient vs regular is also an interesting debate.

You see if you use the regular power then you should get it off 5 times a game and misfire once, meaning you effect 5 units. If you use anciant power then it will work 3 times and misfire 3 times, meaning you effect 6 units.

Now keep in mind this doesn't take into account that the misfire might mean it doesn't work for the next turn as welll or that it blows up...

Personally I always play it safe.

dimetri1
06-10-2010, 03:05
What I do is roll ancient until I have to use my re-roll. After that I roll regular.

Bishop5
06-10-2010, 13:12
Maybe i'm just unlucky; i've used the Anvil six times and have had it blow up on five of my first turns; whether i'm using regular or ancient power. *sigh*

Frankly
06-10-2010, 15:01
yeah your unlucky mate, I took it to a tournament in the weekend and have had another 3 games with it and its misfired twice.

amysrevenge
06-10-2010, 15:08
Well, I just finished painting mine last night. Going to test it out sometime in the next couple of weeks (regular Runelord, not Thorek).

freddieyu
06-10-2010, 15:09
I have had great experiences using the Anvil. Having miners come on the board and then move into someones flanks is a nice thing. Or slowing down that cav from hitting you.

I've never used the big rune, but I don't field Thortek either.

The extra power dice can be quite useful, especially in 8th. I love the look on my opponents faces when I have more DD than they have PD.

YMMV though.

I have experienced the extra move thing as well as the shooting rune firsthand, and I say the anvil can work very well...the miners + rune can truly help decide some games for sure...

My opponent kept on going for the master runes every time, which I think is a mistake....the best thing for most instances is to use the standard rune, and save the gamble of the master rune for emergency or game breaking situations.....

And yes even with a buffed up slann trying to cast a spell versus a dwarf army with a runelord, anvil, and the rune of balance is a real pain in the butt...

Malorian
06-10-2010, 16:02
What I do is roll ancient until I have to use my re-roll. After that I roll regular.

I think we are talking about a regular anvil here, not Thorek...

ramongoroth
06-10-2010, 17:14
I agree with Malorian in the size of the game makes a big difference. I find it hard to squeeze it in at 2k. I'll have to try it out though at that level and see what kind of an impact it has. 3k I'd definately take one for my runelord.

Snake1311
07-10-2010, 14:39
The fact that it can blow itself up is frikkin irritating - it doesn't need it for balance reasons, since compared to spells its subpar, and it definitely doesn't need it for fluff - the anvil has more chance to blow up than a RoF cannon, even if you're careful!

In a 2 - 2.5k game the runelord operating the anvil tends to have all the antimagic runes on him, so the anvil blowing up means bending over and spreading your cheeks to the opponent's magic phase. That alone makes it not worthwhile for me, regardless of the rest of my army - especialy as a dwarf lord with shieldbearers is a pretty good buy even if you leave him runeless. Plus, as people have mentioned, its pretty steep pointwise - and at those point values you are unlikely to already field all the other things you need, like other warmachines. I'd say that before you have two of each kind (except BTs and the pathetic Flame Cannnon), any other warmachine would do more for its points.

In larger games (3k-ish) I'd consider putting one in, since it does open us up to some nifty tricks. However, I'd still get a runesmith or two to hold the rune of balance instead, so you don't put all eggs in one basket.

Basically, think what you're paying for. A extra smith can provide a dispell die, so for around 100 pts you get:
- somewhere to put your Runelord (in some (most?) cases the anvil is safer than a unit)
- the option to cast a few things (with some risk involved)

Memnos
07-10-2010, 14:46
It's worth it.

You get:

1) A potential first turn flank charge(Scouting unit sets up 18 inches away+ free 6 " move before game + 6" regular move +2d6+3" charge with free wheel).

2) Ridiculous amounts of anti-magic.

3) Rapid redeployment, thanks to reform+charge.


Basically, there are lots of things you -can- use it for. It's only going to be used for a free extra move for the most part, though - And getting a flank charge with a big infantry unit is a game winner in many cases.

freddieyu
07-10-2010, 15:02
It's worth it.

You get:

1) A potential first turn flank charge(Scouting unit sets up 18 inches away+ free 6 " move before game + 6" regular move +2d6+3" charge with free wheel).

2) Ridiculous amounts of anti-magic.

3) Rapid redeployment, thanks to reform+charge.


Basically, there are lots of things you -can- use it for. It's only going to be used for a free extra move for the most part, though - And getting a flank charge with a big infantry unit is a game winner in many cases.

Scouts don't get a free move before the game starts..you are confusing this with the vanguard rule (which is a move of up to 12", not a march move).....and if you get first turn your scout cannot declare a charge as specified by the BRB, since the anvil states that you get to make a normal move (move or charge) in the shoot phase, BUT as this is voluntary the scouts rule forbid you to do (meaning voluntarily declaring a charge) if you have first turn...but this can be done if you go second...

This is different for an ambushing unit, as they enter the game during the remaining moves phase, which is after the declare and move chargers phase....there is no clause that prohibits them from charging (as normally they miss that phase when they enter), so the anvil can make them charge the turn they enter...

Memnos
07-10-2010, 15:06
Scouts don't get a free move before the game starts..you are confusing this with the vanguard rule (which is a move of up to 12", not a march move).....and if you get first turn your scout cannot declare a charge as specified by the BRB, since the anvil states that you get to make a normal move (move or charge) in the shoot phase, BUT as this is voluntary the scouts rule forbid you to do (meaning voluntarily declaring a charge) if you have first turn...but this can be done if you go second...

I'm actually not confusing the vanguard rule. There's a Magic Standard Rune that lets everyone within 12 " make a free move.

However, you make a good point. You'd have to go second. At that point, you may as well not even get the Scout ability. ;)

freddieyu
07-10-2010, 15:12
I'm actually not confusing the vanguard rule. There's a Magic Standard Rune that lets everyone within 12 " make a free move.

However, you make a good point. You'd have to go second. At that point, you may as well not even get the Scout ability. ;)

oh missed that...that's a good standard though!!!

goodz
07-10-2010, 17:47
Playing against it a lot, we don't use special characters generally but if its thorek it kills elves real fast...

The normal anvil generally shuts down my magic phase, as long as you can keep it protected it is worth it just for that. ( I generally set out to kill it first)

Stymie Jackson
07-10-2010, 17:55
Anvil=the goods for a Tourney list.

Would probably pass on a 2k list...at 2.5 it's in there. Folks mentioned what they can do for miners already. Other good stuff:

1) 5 wounds, T10 and 4+ Ward Save vs shooting. Egg in an iron-clad basket maybe.
2) Deathstar across the map? Hit it with with the slowing effect to keep it out of combat as long as possible (if it's infantry, it may be out of the game a long time) and more turns of blasting.
3) Non High Elf army? Loaded with magic? 3 Dispell Dice minimum. More than 2 runesmiths provide. Shuts down most types of magic phases. Add balance and watch your opponent cry (Teclis/Hoeth obviously will make you cry as you end each turn with a ton of dispell dice you can't use on IF spells)
4) Spend movement phase moving dwarfs into position to charge. Then shooting phase charge. Gives Dwarves (one unit) a really long range charge each turn. Also allows you to charge things out of your charge arc at the start of a turn. Only TKs and O&G can do this these days. This is a critical advantage.

The above is why the Anvil appears in most army lists for tourneys. Whether agressive, gunline or balanced, the Anvil can help.

Negatives?

1) Cost. Hard to justify in 2k or less games.
2) Instant death to several spells. Luckily most are short ranged. You remembered to hide your anvil behind something as far from the enemy as possible right?
3) Can misfire like a War Machine.
4) Ancient power (not counting Thorek) is almost ALWAYS a bad idea.

He's tough, gets extra wounds and ward saves, and can be runed up. It will take about 8 cannon balls or so, or a large strong CC unit, to get him. Or one dwellers below, but you can draw out his spell casters if you keep your distance.

Still the Anvil complements dwarven strengths and compensates for dwarves biggest weaknesses (speed speed, and speed). This is why it is good.

I've had it explode in turn 1. This is why it is bad.

All things considered, I'd rather have an Anvil explode than a king who spends all game running in circles trying to find something to bash as the enemy plays "Dances with Dwarves" on him. Challenge Rune? Wish it worked on Demons...

dimetri1
08-10-2010, 04:55
I think we are talking about a regular anvil here, not Thorek...

Yes I know. Under 3000 I run it as regular. When it hits 3000 I don't. With a regular anvil I do not use ancient. Ever.

Zorenthewise
08-10-2010, 05:16
I always use it at 3000 points (I play a balanced army). For me, it's all about disruption. Your opponent likely has a battle plan. Your opponent probably has a few units that he's putting a little too much faith in. Normally, that faith would be well founded, as that flank guard will be just right to surround you, or those flyers will be able to get a nice flank charge.

I use the anvil to
A) slow down those units the enemy needs to get into combat ASAP. Often, this is a dragonlord or a cavalry unit on the turn it wants to charge.
B) move one of my units to get the flank.

I know these seem like obvious things to do, but it's still worth saying IMO. Against the SCR of Dwarfs and the fact I usually have more ranks than the enemy, even a single turn disruption can lead to big problems for my enemy. Make them come to you piecemeal, and grind them when they get to you. In combo with the MRoChallenge, you can really take apart a battleline bit by bit rather than facing it all at once.

Sure, there are horror stories of it blowing up turn 1, but the same thing happens with Organ Guns and any other good warmachine we use. I've had my Anvil blow up a few times before, and they were all times when I was so sure of victory that risking Ancient Power didn't seem like a big deal to me. Other than that, I never use AP.