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View Full Version : Skaven magic; Skorch and placing it's template.



Ward.
02-10-2010, 21:58
This came up recently and I was wondering how things are meant to go, we ruled in my opponents favour but I'd like a clear ruling to reference.

A) Can I place the template from a successfully cast skorch onto a unit in combat with my clanrats?

B) Is skorch considered a direct damage spell?

-Thanks.

Gooner
03-10-2010, 00:27
I dont think you can place the template in combat with clanrats.

I do think you can place it in contact with combat with slaves, BUT remember that all hits are randomised, so count the number of hits it would casue then randomize between each side.

Makrar
03-10-2010, 00:59
I dont think you can place the template in combat with clanrats.

I do think you can place it in contact with combat with slaves, BUT remember that all hits are randomised, so count the number of hits it would casue then randomize between each side.

Randomizing of slave units got removed in the errata. Templates hit what they hit


I play that i cant do it in combat but as it doesnt have a target unit as such then you could possibly argue that it can, same as vortex spells. However without getting out the books and looking at the exact wording I cant be sure at the time. (Its all good with slaves though!)

Depends who i was playing against really :P

Ward.
03-10-2010, 03:20
Well damn, I'm assuming the slaves being in combat isn't enough to let me drop a template onto one with clanrats also there.
I don't have my rulebook on hand right now but next time I do I'll give the exact wording of the spell.

EDMM
03-10-2010, 07:17
The only targeting restrictions for spells in the army books are those printed in the army books.

Scorch has no targeting restrictions, you simply place it within 24" of the caster.

Whether you place it over a unit in combat, or a friendly unit, or impassable terrain, or over nothing at all, matters not one speck.

Djekar
03-10-2010, 08:32
@EDMM
That's the way that we've always played it here.

Makrar
03-10-2010, 08:42
The only targeting restrictions for spells in the army books are those printed in the army books.

Scorch has no targeting restrictions, you simply place it within 24" of the caster.

Whether you place it over a unit in combat, or a friendly unit, or impassable terrain, or over nothing at all, matters not one speck.

Yeah I don't play it that way, Just feel dirty :D going to have to do it though when i meet Quad Hydra later, Lots of filth loving cheese lists by me :cries:

I've allready read it as that any exceptions to the restrictions will be in the spell descriptions but I can see how people play it with the next to no restrictions and there probably right but it just seems contradictory to the paragraph above which lists the general restrictions. I wonder though if im in the minority here

Stumpy
03-10-2010, 09:23
You can't cast spells on units in combat unless the spell specifies otherwise. If you want to argue that the template you're placing in the middle of a unit isn't being cast on them you can have fun arguing that. Don't expect to make friends though.
Scorch is brutal enough without that anyway.

Makrar
03-10-2010, 09:34
You cant target a unit that's in combat, Scorch doesn't have a target. Its a bit gamey but perfectly legit.

Kevlar
03-10-2010, 14:14
Generic spell rule is you can not cast spells into combat unless the spell specifically allows it. Plenty of skaven spells allow it, scorch is not one of those spells. Neither is the dreaded 13th.

You can cast those spells on units in combat, but you would also be cheating.

Ward.
03-10-2010, 17:59
You can't cast spells on units in combat unless the spell specifies otherwise. If you want to argue that the template you're placing in the middle of a unit isn't being cast on them you can have fun arguing that. Don't expect to make friends though.
Scorch is brutal enough without that anyway.

Actually I did, as the wording on skorch makes no mention of targeting, nominating or selecting a unit for the template to fall on.

There are however rules regarding the "direct damage" category of spells that prevent might prevent it from being placed in the same space as an enemy model that is in combat which I was unsure about.


Scorch – Cast on a 10+
The Skaven Sorcerer thrusts his paws into the ground
while chittering fiery incantations.
The caster may summon a gout of flame to blast out
of the earth. Place the small round template anywhere
within 24". Any model touched suffers a Strength 4 hit.
All wounds caused by this spell count as Flaming
Attacks. Any unit that suffers an unsaved wound must
take a Panic test.

It appears it's spelt without the K though.

Yrrdead
03-10-2010, 18:16
First in answer to your two queries.

1. Yes
2. No

1. As has been mentioned earlier, currently no army book lores have any restrictions other than those listed in the spells per page 32 paragraph after the bullets. Though this seems rather wonky and in some cases is a bit imbalanced it would be just as bad if taken the opposite way (meaning all bullets apply to all spells.) As written you just need to follow the sequence of spell targetting.

Pg 32 Targetting.

[...] However, unless otherwise stated the following rules apply:

[bullet points]

[...]Some unique spells, or spells that are printed in older Warhammer Armies books, do not have a type - their text will contain any restrictions that apply.

2. No army book spells (other than magic missiles which are legacy typed) have a spell type.


Why didn't they go ahead and type the majority of AB spells with the related FAQ's? No idea.

Ward.
03-10-2010, 18:48
You've made my day and thankyou very much for your help.




Now to go and act all smug about it at my FLGS :cheese: