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Glasscannon
04-10-2010, 02:50
over the last few weeks ive played exclusively 2k games with mixed success, but have been invited to play in the local areas gaming group who mostly play 2250, so this is my first attempt at a competitive list, honest criticism please.

Balthazar Gelt

Warrior Priest of Sigmar (General)
- armour of meteoric iron, dawnstone, extra hand weapon

Master Engineer
- light armour, repeater pistol

Captain
- BSB, terrifying mask of eee, talisman of protection

40 Halberdiers
- Command
- 20 Swordsmen detachment

12 handgunners

12 handgunners

30 flagellants
- Prohet of doom

Great cannon

Hellstorm rocket battery

Hellstorm rocket battery

Steam tank

The BSB and Warrior priest both go with the halberd horde


Im ready to change Balthazar to a level 4 on pegasus if special characters are frowned apon.
With the upgrade to 2250 I was able to fit 2 hellstorms and the tank in the legal rare allotment, but only barely :P
I have yet to test the use of the 20 mans swordsmen detatchment am ready to replace them if needed with some more halberds in the horde or pistolliers if I can fit them in, another cannon is also a good possibility.

Thanks for your input.

ftayl5
05-10-2010, 07:22
I like it mostly just a few points.

I don't see the use in the engineer, if he's helping the Helstorm he can't fire his gun and otherwise you have 2 helstorms, a stank and 24 handgunners, you probably don't need him.

Keep the 20 sword detachment. Yeah you're going to have a 30 S4, terror causing unit there so that cool.

Zoat
05-10-2010, 18:56
My personal opions so use them if you like'em!

Your army seems a bit hit or miss.
- Hellstorms have fantastic damage potential, but are notoriously unreliable.
- Magic is fickle. Baltzar is good, but sitting on a pegasus he will be a juicy missile/magic target.
- Flaggelants have a murderous first round, but die in droves to missiles and in subsequent rounds.

Some ideas for a more effective line-up:
- Swap swordsmen and halberds. 35 swords with 2x15 halberd detachments? Swordsmen are more durable due to WS 4, +1 save and 6+ ward save. Halberds do better damage and work better as flanking detachments. Even better: 2 x 35 swordsmen with one 15 man halberd detachment each!
- Remove engineer. Cool models, but to expensive for what they do.
- Hide wizard in infantry! Agreed, this would work better if you had another regiment of statetroops...
- Less flaggelants. 20 generally do just as good a job as 30. I currently play only 15
- Consider some knights. 5 knights cost only 115 pts and are surprisingly durable with their 1+ save. Your current army is quite static.

Sorry if I bombard you with ideas... I have been tinkering with my Empire army a lot the last week or so and have many ideas that need to come out! :)

The_Cheat137
05-10-2010, 19:33
Good List overall, I would just change on thing:

I do not like Flagellants. At all. They give away CR by the dozen. One of the most important jobs of Line Infantry is to hold the line. Flagellants are unbreakable, but die so fast they likely won't be holding very long anyway. And 10 points per model? No sir, not for me.

For the price of one unit of 30 flaggies, you can get 2 units of 30 halberds. 2X30 halberds is a fantastic Line, their Str 4 goes a long way, and with a BSB near, you won't be breaking anytime soon. I'd actually also get rid of the 20 sword detachment as well to bring each of those halb units up to 40. Now you're smoking! Got yourself a Str 4 Line that won't break, and a Steam Tank to roll into the flank and win yourself those combats! Fix and Flank wins the day every time for the Empire.

Glasscannon
08-10-2010, 09:14
Thanks for the replies guys

I had my first 2 games with this list a few things did quite well, a decisive and minor victory.

Im afraid I love flagellants way to much to not use them, personally they have never failed to deliver brutal damage even in subsequent rounds of combat, but I do understand if they dont have augment support they are massive CR gifts thing is though, they are my anvil for my tank, so in most cases those 2 units together wreck and dont seem to care to much about CR, i dont know if thats because my opponents underestimate them (failed to blast them with shooting/magic) or I just select ideal targets, we shall see in subsequent games if they fall over.

as for the hellstorms unreliability, I noticed alot of horde armies thrown around and 2 hellstorms cause catastrophic damage in both games (before missfiring and exploding), Im thinking of dropping the engineer he hasn't pulled his weight so far.
Since my army doesn't have that many combat units to counter the amount across the board, my detachment was not used to its full potential. Ill have to rethink its use, or perhaps get some knights for some mobility

I will be dropping balthazar gelt for a level 4 on foot with Lore of light, I played a trial game after the 2 at the club with this change and just wow, the offensive augments made all the difference, im afraid the flaggellants will not be changed :P

Fox Of 9
08-10-2010, 20:51
Gelt is 400pts im guessing your wizard lord isnt that many points if you make his build = 305pts you can then get a lvl1 battle wizard with power rod & lore of beasts to buff the flagellants and make them harder to kill so more stay around for longer. Thats 95pts of magic equipment on the lvl 4 and your flagellants are still around. but this is just my oppinion. Anyway thats my 2 cents. Fox Of 9 A-K-A david

Glasscannon
08-10-2010, 23:49
Excellent idea, an empire level 4 is 210 points without items (bargain!) so ill have plenty of room to fit the beast wizard in.

Edit. Played another 2 games pre the beast wizard one of which my opponent did what I feared and blasted my flaggellants with everything he had, funnilly enough fox he said exactly the same thing you did :P that I should grab a cheap beast wizard to keep them alive. so the list has been revised:

Wizard lord (light)
- level 4, holy relic (4+ward), arabyan carpet (he will only ever leave the unit if its safe to do so)

Warrior Priest of Sigmar (General)
- armour of meteoric iron, dawnstone, extra hand weapon

Battle wizard (beasts)
- dispell scroll

Captain
- BSB, terrifying mask of eee, talisman of protection

40 Halberdiers
- Command

20 swordsmen

12 handgunners

12 handgunners

30 flagellants
- Prohet of doom

Great cannon

Hellstorm rocket battery

Hellstorm rocket battery

Steam tank


the swordsmen are no longer detatched because I feel I shouldnt stack that many characters into 1 unit, its just asking to be blown to pieces.
Ill be adding the beast wizard into the swordsmen to babysit the flaggellants and add thier weight to the combat if needed, I will more than likely drop the swordsmen all together, drop 1 hellstorm and make a second 40man halberds unit, they always pull thier weight it seems.

librisrouge
09-10-2010, 05:07
Sounds like a great list overall. Consider writing up some battle reports since you get to play regularly. I'd love to read more about your Empire in action since it's about what I'm planning on taking (no Steam Tank though.)

Glasscannon
09-10-2010, 08:26
ill definitely try to either take pictures or to at the very lease write up a report on some of my games, the games go on Thursday night (gmt+10) so ill probably have 1 or more reports ready by saturday morning

Fox Of 9
09-10-2010, 10:10
one question how many points is the flying carpet thing im guessing round 55pts but i could be wrong i would instead of that get the power rod nicely boost a Magic/dispell phase then get a nice 25pt enchanted item from the rule book to turn your wizard into a magic train O' Death (TM) anyway its just a suggestion ( ALSO IF YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS ON HOW TO IMPROVE MY EMPIRE LIST LOOK OUT FOR IT IN THE FORUM)

Glasscannon
10-10-2010, 03:40
its 50 points, same as a pegasus, ill jump over and have a look at ur list :D

Glasscannon
10-10-2010, 05:59
This is the final revision before thursdays games which may or may not be made into reports depending on time constraints.

Lord
Wizard Lord
- Lore of Light, Level 4, holy relic, rod of power

Hero
Warrior Priest
- armour of meteoric iron, dawn stone, additional hand weapon

Captain
- BSB, full plate, great weapon, terrifying mask of eee, talisman of protection

Battle Wizard
- Lore of Beasts, dispel scroll

Core
40 halberds
- command

20 swordsmen
- command

12 handgunners

12 handgunners

Special
Great cannon

5 pistoliers
- Muso

Rare
Hellstorm

Hellstorm

Steam tank

the 20 swordsmen will be replaced with 2 mortars once I have the models this week

Glasscannon
17-10-2010, 00:20
After the weeks games I have come to the same conclusion alot of people on warseer have, the steam tank is not such a great addition :P
comparing to empire knights with a warrior priest attatched there is just no escaping the fact its not worth its hefty points cost. 2 out of 3 games I played it got purple sunned turn 1, I won those games but still it is a points pinyata. It didnt occur to me at all about its almost guarenteed steadfast opponent and the fact you half its damage to compare damage/turn against other units.
As a result the list has been reworked.

the day before the games I changed my wizard lord to a pegasus lord again, he has yet to be blasted by shooting or magic but i am very warry of it, he is more often than not behind an unbreakable unit that cant possibly be broken or panicced.


2250

Archlector (General)
- amour of meteoric iron, dawnstone, van horstmans, additional hand weapon

Wizard lord (Light)
- holy relic, power scroll, pegasus

Captain
- BSB, tiny helm of EEE, full plate, great weapon

Warrior priest
- barded steed, dawn armour, shrieking blade

40 Halberds
- command

30 flagellants

10 handgunners

10 handgunners

Great cannon

Mortar

Mortar

8 Knights
- Muso + standard, inner circle, steel standard

Hellstorm

Hellstorm

any suggestions for adaptations for this list are welcome, i have a limited number of state troops unfortunately, id love nothing more than to have another horde of halberds or swordsmen, I have ordered in 20 state troops to make a 40 man swordsman horde for inclusion, but for now these models will have to do.

Fox Of 9
17-10-2010, 10:22
i've only gt one point. why additional HW on Arch lector ?? why Not Great Weapon ??

Glasscannon
18-10-2010, 00:24
The model I have for my Warrior Priest is additional hand weapon, I like to make my lists 'what you see is what you get' as much as possible, not a fluff thing, I just dont want people to see the priest with 2 weapons and get a reason to be unhappy when one is a 2hander magically :P

Fox Of 9
18-10-2010, 09:30
ahh i see cool :D

Fox Of 9
22-10-2010, 19:56
hey m8 hows the list working for you

Glasscannon
23-10-2010, 06:45
Played four 2500 games since last posting, 3 wins and a draw against empire, skaven, VC and beastmen.

The list used was as follows:

Archlector (general)
- armour of meteoric iron, dawnstone, van horstmans

Wizard lord (heavens)
- Level 4, holy relic, rod of power, pegasus

Captain
- BSB, full platemail, great weapon, tiny helm of eee

Warrior priest
- barded steed, great weapon, dawn armour

Battle Wizard (life)
- dispel scroll

40 Halberds
- command

40 swordsmen
- command

30 flagellants
- prophet of doom

Great cannon

Mortar

Mortar

10 outriders
- muso

5 pistoliers
- Muso, champ, repeater pistol

Hellblaster

Hellblaster

Character distribution depends entirely on opponent and deployment.

a unit of 10 outriders is something ive been toying with doing for a while, finally got the models and im quite happy with thier performance so far.
I replaced the hellstorms with blasters because my mortars are more than up to the challenge of softening big units up and I needed more direct shooting to deal with the stragglers more effectively.