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Hashulaman
04-10-2010, 23:35
Does Archaon technically have all 4 chaos marks or just one mark encompassing them all? I was looking at his rules and wodnered if that 3+ ward of his would be a 2+ ward since he is the Chosen of Tzeentch, I also wondered if he is in a unit of Nurgle knights would the -1 to hit from shooting be stacked? I dont think he gets the frenzy from khorne but he is Immune to Fear, Terror, and Panic from Slannesh which is basicly what ItP is anyways.

SiNNiX
04-10-2010, 23:53
They are separate rules entirely. He does not have "Marks." He does not benefit from any of the bonuses that marks grant, as they are completely different. That being said, the Nurgle penalty does stack, as they're two separate abilities.

AMWOOD co
05-10-2010, 06:00
You may be thinking back too hard.

In Hordes of Chaos, the book said that Archaon had all 4 marks for making an army. Back then, if your general was undivided you could have all the marks present in your army, but if he had a Mark of one of the four then your army could only be that mark or undivided.

Now, in Warriors of Chaos, Marks are not in the way for anything save a few Nurgle effects. That being said, Archaon does not, technically, have any of the marks. This means he will be affected by Plague Squall and the Festering Shroud.

Nirvandt
05-10-2010, 07:19
I have another Archaon question.

Does Archaon get a lookout sir if he is with a unit of Chaos knights, since he is on a Monsterous Mount and the Chaos knights are Calvery Units?

If he doesn't get lookout sir than cannons would be able to target him. Is there anyway I could protect him from siege weapons?

eyescrossed
05-10-2010, 09:10
Wait... You're afraid of Cannons hurting him?

Fair enough, and I can see people trying to snipe him with them, but it's not exactly reliable.

reddevil18
05-10-2010, 13:51
I cant answer any of your questions im afraid but i do have one of my own
SiNNiX said that the chosen of nurgle and mark of nurgle do stack, and i thought they did but my dad says they dont, how can i argue that they do to him?

Little Joe
06-10-2010, 00:42
I have another Archaon question.

Does Archaon get a lookout sir if he is with a unit of Chaos knights, since he is on a Monsterous Mount and the Chaos knights are Calvery Units?

If he doesn't get lookout sir than cannons would be able to target him. Is there anyway I could protect him from siege weapons?
No, and the only fluff way to get it is to have demons as allies with a unit of monstrous cavalry.


I cant answer any of your questions im afraid but i do have one of my own
SiNNiX said that the chosen of nurgle and mark of nurgle do stack, and i thought they did but my dad says they dont, how can i argue that they do to him?
They could, but won't. Since a unit having a chaos mark doesn't transfer it to a character. And Archaon himself cannot choose marks.

reddevil18
06-10-2010, 00:49
But a mark is bought per unit so it should effect the whole unit and if a hero joins the unit he becomes part of the unit so shoudnt it effect him as well?

SiNNiX
06-10-2010, 00:56
Perhaps they don't, but I believe they do stack as a character that joins a unit forms a combined unit, so you can't pick and choose between models unless you have the Sniper special rule. Don't have my rulebook with me so I can't really look it up but I definitely could be wrong. Haven't even faced Archaon in 8th yet.

Hashulaman
06-10-2010, 01:52
Archaons -1 to hit is conferred onto the unit and is a seperate rule since it is not the mark of Nurgle, ergo it stacks with anything else that has the mark of Nurgle. They have a -2 to shoot in addition to any other modifiers

SiNNiX
06-10-2010, 02:27
Yep. Just got home and checked out my WOC book. Wording's pretty clear; missile attacks would be at -2 to hit the unit Archaon joins if they already have a Mark of Nurgle.

AMWOOD co
06-10-2010, 04:17
Wait... You're afraid of Cannons hurting him?

Fair enough, and I can see people trying to snipe him with them, but it's not exactly reliable.

Likely, no. Possible, yes. Had it happen to myself. Turn 1, first shot killed Archaon. His Horse didn't make it to the other side of the field. Still won in the end with my other 19 models. This was back in Hordes, mind you.

Hashulaman
06-10-2010, 09:12
Would be awesome if he indeed had all 4 marks, 2+ ward, Frenzy, ALready immune to pysc and the -1 to hit in CC and shooting is better. He'd be worth the Near 700 points.

Little Joe
06-10-2010, 09:42
Happy to stand corrected, but could you point out the ruling for the stack. As I see it, you buy an upgrade for the unit with a mark. Say I buy two hand weapons for my unit, this does not confer to any character? Why would a Mark be different?

I assume it is because Archaon has no mark and thus can recieve it from the unit, but then I could save the points for marks for champions and simply put them in units and get them free marks.

Eta
06-10-2010, 09:52
Happy to stand corrected, but could you point out the ruling for the stack. As I see it, you buy an upgrade for the unit with a mark. Say I buy two hand weapons for my unit, this does not confer to any character? Why would a Mark be different?

I assume it is because Archaon has no mark and thus can recieve it from the unit, but then I could save the points for marks for champions and simply put them in units and get them free marks.

Archaon does have a special rule that states that "enemies are at -1 to hit Archaon (and any unit he joins) with shooting attacks and also at -1 to hit with attacks in close combat." (pg. 69). When the unit of knights he joins has the MoN, the knights will be protected by their mark's effect and Archaon's special rule. However, Archaon should not benefit from the effect the MoN grants the unit when you can specifically target him (Hochland rifle, bolt throwers...).

Greetings
Eta

Davo
06-10-2010, 09:56
Ok, here's one for ya lads.

Please bear with me as I am at work and don't have the rulebook to hand but Archaon has a 1+ ward save against magic missiles and direct damage spells right? Is there anything in the rulebook that states that all saves fail automatically on a 1 or does that just refer to armour saves?


I ask because I have never seen a 1+ ward save before.

Chris_
06-10-2010, 09:58
Ok, here's one for ya lads.

Please bear with me as I am at work and don't have the rulebook to hand but Archaon has a 1+ ward save against magic missiles and direct damage spells right? Is there anything in the rulebook that states that all saves fail automatically on a 1 or does that just refer to armour saves?


I ask because I have never seen a 1+ ward save before.Pg. 44 BRB. A 1 is always a failure.

Little Joe
06-10-2010, 10:00
Got it, thanks.

SiNNiX
06-10-2010, 14:34
Yeah, when I said they stacked, I meant Archaon's ability stacked with the unit's MoN giving them -2 to hit with range.

AMWOOD co
08-10-2010, 07:30
Has anyone here run Archaon in a game yet? He can't be used until the point total approaches 3000, I understand, but he is a massively powerful killer. Does he still deal out death and destruction on a whim or is he severely hampered by the enemy constantly being steadfast?

reddevil18
08-10-2010, 18:57
He cant come in to roughly 2700 points a think.
Also why would the unit get -2? The chosen of nurgle says you at -1 to hit HIM not the unit? but mark of nurgle says shooting at the model and is bought per unit. heros joining a unit are part of the unit so shouldnt archaon be -2 and the unit -1?

AMWOOD co
09-10-2010, 01:20
Check again. Note the little thing in parentheses when describing the to hit penalty for shooting.

SiNNiX
09-10-2010, 03:34
The -1 to hit is against Archaon and any unit he joins. Thus you would suffer a -2 to hit penalty when shooting at a Nurgle unit with Archaon in it.