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Zaonite
05-10-2010, 16:30
Heya guys,

Little rules niggle for you to chew on.

It's about wounds caused in combat on a unit with a character in it.

Say if I have five models left in a unit and a character. My opponent attacks the unit and causes say 8 wounds. Would I have to allocate at least one of those to the character or do all the wounds stay on the unit?

The reason it's a niggle is because the BRB says you have to allocate what you are going to strike at before rolling the dice. So by that reasoning, just by hitting the unit you have not elected to strike the character and the wounds don't flow onto him.

Clarification please? (if my explanation is unclear I will try to clarify, just ask)

mishari26
05-10-2010, 16:47
The BRB actually makes it very clear if wounds "overflow" from unit to command group and how.

but in the case of a character, it just says you have to allocate attacks between him or his unit, and only mentions that excess wounds on the character do not overflow to the unit. but does not say if wounds on the unit overflow to the character.

This along with the fact that a character is likely to have different armor/toughness values from his unit, then it might not be fair to kill lots of easy unit models and transfer those to a well armored character.

So I'd say no, you can not overflow wounds from the unit onto the character. you just have to declare how many attacks you put onto the character, and how many on the unit.

TheKingInYellow
05-10-2010, 21:21
But attacks and wounds rolled are made against the *majority* of a unit.

Korraz
05-10-2010, 21:42
You can't kill more, than is there. And you can't wound, what you didn't attack.
5 dead Rank and File guys. Unscathed Character.

Synnister
06-10-2010, 02:22
Agree with Korraz, wounds don't overflow to characters and therefore you can't kill the character if you didn't allocate any hits to him.

b4z
22-10-2010, 17:34
To save me opening a thread of my own, following on from this question...

Do you still count the 'excess wounds' when determining combat resolution?

(When the last remaining rank and file models are removed [with excess wounds] [and the character is left unscathed as decided by the rules argument in here])

Had this come up last night and wanted to know what happens... this thread answered the first part of that.

Lungboy
22-10-2010, 17:36
Only overkill wounds from a challenge count towards combat res.

Lord_Elric
22-10-2010, 18:18
Only overkill wounds from a challenge count towards combat res.

Yep excess wounds are wasted as far as i know unless in a challenge.

Zaonite
22-10-2010, 20:32
This still isn't resolved.... My friend says that according to page 99 of the BRB, characters are part of a unit for all rules purposes and therefore wounds will flow onto him as they would to a command group.

This change anyone's mind? I'm kind of half back on my own argument, but I still say, different WS, T and ASv so you'd have to allocate...

Help!

RMacDeezy
22-10-2010, 20:41
a valiant effort by your friend but the BRB (p99) says characters are treated as part of the unit except for the following exceptions- then proceeds to say that any attacks against the character must be allocated to him before any dice are rolled. any specification about whether or not excess wounds on the unit "roll over" onto a character would be made superfluous by the statement that attacks must be allocated to a character in order to wound him/her/it

Mystic_Weasel
22-10-2010, 20:45
I would say your friend is wrong, a command group is part of the unit but cannot leave and has identical stats to the rest of the unit. As alreay mentioned charcters will often have better weapon skill and toughness and although he is part of the unit he is not like the command as he can leave it.
Out of challenges i would have no problem with additonal wounds flowing from the character onto rank and file when he is dead, as they would be easier to kill anyway.
rank and file flowing onto a character that is harder to hit and wound then no chance.
Allocate or do not hurt him, unless of course he is broken and run down.

if your friend really wont listen to reason, at least you are playing by the same rules.

as macdeezy said, in a far better and official way than me!

PaintByNumbers
22-10-2010, 21:06
This may not answer the question but I think does have some relevance to the discussion.

Official BRB FAQ:
"Q: At what point after a unit has been wiped out do any characters
remaining count as having left the unit? (p101)
A: As soon as the last model from the unit has been removed,
any remaing characters will count as a new unit Note that this
will cause Panic tests to all frienddly units within 6" (including
the newly formed unit of character(s)) as the unit has been
destroyed."

Mystic_Weasel
22-10-2010, 21:18
I think we have a winner!, welcome to warseer PBN!

RMacDeezy
22-10-2010, 21:19
this reinforces the argument that wounds do not roll over onto characters as once the unit is destroyed, the character counts as a new (separate, for those who need clarification) unit. as wounds caused on one unit do not "overflow" onto a second unit involved in the same combat, neither would they be allocated to the character (a separate unit)

damn you weasel! ;)

Zaonite
22-10-2010, 22:15
My good sirs I believe you have solved my problem. I will put my arguments forward at the club next week. See if I win. :D

jthdotcom
24-10-2010, 01:35
Only hits specifically allocated against a character can wound him, simple